That's a lot of editing. To go from 17 minutes to 2:52. I believe only the Progressive rock stations were the ones subjecting a listener to all 17 minutes. I'm not a fan of the song, so there is no way I would sit through it. I wonder how many listeners back then would tune out every time it would start playing. But tha album rock format from back then, didn't seem to care. I guess there was cool factor for them to play the album version.
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Song lengths undergoing change—Radio impact?
- Thread starter Mediafrog+
- Start date
K.M. Richards
Program Director, The Eighties Channel™
A couple of comments: The edit of "Nights In White Satin" mostly got airplay on the more adventurous top-40 stations of the time, and I doubt Deram even serviced the 45 to the prog rockers. Same with Atco and "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida" (in the garden of Eden).
A lot of stations faded "Hey Jude" long before it got to the end.
The real breakthrough on song length came, IIRC, when KHJ edited Elton John's "Philadelphia Freedom" and MCA was so upset they refused to service them on any Elton John unless they agreed not to edit. KHJ agreed ... and the next single -- "Someone Saved My Life Tonight" -- was even longer. (I can't seem to locate where I read this, or I would include a link.)
A lot of stations faded "Hey Jude" long before it got to the end.
The real breakthrough on song length came, IIRC, when KHJ edited Elton John's "Philadelphia Freedom" and MCA was so upset they refused to service them on any Elton John unless they agreed not to edit. KHJ agreed ... and the next single -- "Someone Saved My Life Tonight" -- was even longer. (I can't seem to locate where I read this, or I would include a link.)
Some top-40 stations did play the long version of that song--but only late at night. I remember staying at a friend's house back in the mid-1970s, waking up around midnight, only to hear the full-length version of "in-a-gadda-da-vida," playing from her alarm clock radio set to then top-40 outlet KUPD.
I actually think that parts of that song are fun listening to with headphones when using the stereo mix. Apparently, the engineer on the recording was about as high as the musicians as he kept adding and then dropping echo on the first drum solo. The effect listening on headphones is that of thinking you're about to run (or rock as I was sitting in a rocking chair doing this) headlong into a supporting post in the room you were in. (And my bedroom, like most home bedrooms, does not have supporting posts.)
And, for those who may be wondering, no! I never dabbled in illicit drug use, not even while listening to this song!
To be able to sit through the album version would almost require the use of illicit drugs!
....aka "Microgroove".
After the invention of the LP, record cutting engineers began studying ways to increase the playing time of a standard LP record. Which for both audio quality, output volume and length, per Columbia's original 1948 Peter Goldmark Standard, was about 20 minutes per 10" side.
Over the years for 12" LPs (standard by 1955), major labels voluntarily used "The RIAA Curve" or some equivalent, a combination of dynamic range adjustment through beginning-to-end side processing to reduce inner groove distortion and a standardized groove width, raising the maximum playing time to 23 minutes per 12" side. While it's been known since the wax cylinder that finer grooves mean more music, the tradeoffs on disc shaped records are lower output volume as well as the potential for skips or mistracking.
But The RIAA Curve wasn't 100% universal even in the US. Cutting engineers used whatever they thought worked best for the recording. Or with whatever they had. In fact, in France in the 1970s, there was the Tri-Micron series of now highly collectible Classical LPs that actually played at one hour per side, 12", 33 1/3 RPM.
Remember those K-Tel/Ronco Records that promised 20 Big Hits for $3.98? They had to edit it for length on an open reel tape machine, compressed it, and lowered the dynamic range to make the super fine grooves. In the early-mid 1970s, they played up to 29 minutes on one side.
And to compensate on your end, you had to really goose up the volume. Which also brought up any surface noise/turntable rumble. And often, just how bad those edits for length really were......
There was another famous problem; Automatic record changers. When John Lennon famously asked George Martin how long a 45 RPM record can play for "Hey Jude", Martin checked with EMI engineers; They reported back with a standard cut at 45 RPM, 8:12. And that number specifically because of record changers then in use everywhere in 1968.
There's a degree/point where a side of a record simply must end before the pick-up mechanism of a record changer is triggered. A very tiny, but dangerous area recognized by most, but not all record changer manufacturers of those days. And most commercially made American vinyl records still end well before this. They have a name for it. I just can't remember it off the tip of my tongue
And to this day, LP mastering engineers still have to be cognizant at all times of it because many of these old record changers are still in use now by hipsters. Who play their Imagine Dragons and Billie Eilish vinyl on them.
Runout groove
Best part right here:
Fun stories: In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida: the improbable story of a 17-minute one-hit-wonder
Remember, KUPD was the only one of Phoenix’s three top 40 stations (KRUX and KRIZ were the others) which made the switch to full FM around, IIRC, 1973. Because it was on FM they seemed to be a little more rock flavored always.
I was working in my backyard building a barbecue on the day that KUPD powered up the FM “upon the mountain“ and ceased operating the limited power and coverage facility down at their AM transmitter site south of Tempe. In 1972 and 1973 we saw many top 40 formats either starting on FM or simulcasting there. It was a fun era if you were one of the PD’s of such a station.
Now I have to seriously admit to an age gap: what does “runout groove“ mean?
K.M. Richards
Program Director, The Eighties Channel™
No age gap. The "runout groove" refers to that section in the middle of a vinyl record between the end of audio and the label. Record changers react to the tone arm moving toward the center and that activates the mechanism to bring it back to the outer edge.
I'd never heard that term. "You learn something new everyday until... you can't"
That Wikipedia ...under history for KUPD, It states that KUPD had 3 formats in the 70's before going AOR. First was Top 40 after dropping MOR, followed by Easy Listening, then Adult Contemporary, then AOR in March 1979. It was in late Spring/Summer of 1978 for the flip to AOR. When I get a chance, I'll go through the Broadcasting Yearbooks on the World Radio History site from the 70's, just to verify... But I know Wiki is incorrect.
KUPD - Wikipedia
KUPD went on the air as a Beautiful Music station. By the 70's it was in a KRIZ-KRUX-KUPD AM top 40 battle. At KRIZ you had The Mississippi Hippie and then Todd Wallace. KUPD had a very strong PD with Chuck Browning and hard pusing administration under the Meltons. KRUX had John Mac Flanigan.
Yes. I was living with my folks at the Phoenix residence on weekends and living at the school for the deaf and blind in Tucson on weekdays and I very much remember KUPD's lower transmitter power--you could only hear it clearly when I-10 was passing around the east side of South Mountain making all other FMs very fuzzy indeed. The only thing I remember differently from you was when KUPD switched to its South Mountain transmitter--my memory says that switch occurred in the spring of 1974, at the same time that KHEP-FM moved its transmitter from western Phoenix to, I believe, the top of North Mountain.
That depends if you are talking about KUPD 1060 AM or 97.9 FM. It was the AM that, after changing its calls to KKKQ and going as a *very* high-energy top-40 outlet, settled back and became an easy listening station in 1978 which was followed by an urban contemporary format in 1980. The FM remained a rock top-40 until it went full-blown AOR in May or June of 1979.
I don't know if you were able to click on the link I provided, due to your eyesight. It's for 97.9 KUPD with the incorrect info.
Here's the Wikipedia one for AM 1060. Which is spot on correct. BTW, as KKKQ after the simulcast ended, they flipped to an older leaning Top 40.Gold, and no Easy Listening before Urban Contemporary.
KDUS - Wikipedia
That's enough about KUPD. I apologize for getting off track.
I just heard a big band version by Paul Weston. That's Jo Stafford's husband.
That is.... interesting....
I've heard a few BM versions of "Hey Jude", and they all cut out most of the 4+ minute coda. They usually also drop a verse or two.
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That's didn't keep the knockoff soundalike records from editing "Someone Saved My Life Tonight". This one skipped over half the song:
When "Nights in White Satin" was originally released in 1968 (and flopped), the label on the promo 45 said 3:06, and that was pretty close to its actual playing time of 3:13.
When it was re-released in 1972, the label still said 3:06 but this time it actually plays for is 4:26, the same as the commercial 45. Later the label was corrected to reflect its actual playing time.