Song segues...how do they do it?

[tall_guy1]

While sometimes smaller town stations are more "thrown together" it seems like in larger markets there is effort for the songs to kind of "flow" without an awkward transition. Is there a way programmers make the songs "flow" in larger markets?

 

[Delete My Account]

I would say that with most stations running liners between every single song, most stations I hear in major markets have very little ability to "flow" at all. I even hear this in very small markets, and I find it annoying that there's never segues.

 

[tbolt909]

I would say that with most stations running liners between every single song, most stations I hear in major markets have very little ability to "flow" at all. I even hear this in very small markets, and I find it annoying that there's never segues.

The Art of Segues died long ago. Many FM Album Rock stations prided themselves on seamless transitions. I worked at stations that often played 3 songs in a row without a station ID. A lot of effort was put into creating the "Sound" of the station. That's long gone with very few exceptions...

 

[SomeRadioGuy]

It's a combo of things.

in small markets, the music is filler between the news, weather and High school ball games.

plus, in rural, not highly compeitive markets, stations probably have a music scheduler set up with some basic rules, how to place songs... in bigger cities, theyll have a ton of rules built in.. tempo, mood, etc.. dont wanna play a slow sad sad right at top of hour, etc...... most small town stations don't over thinkl/research their music as much as the big city stations

 

[davideduardo]

While sometimes smaller town stations are more "thrown together" it seems like in larger markets there is effort for the songs to kind of "flow" without an awkward transition. Is there a way programmers make the songs "flow" in larger markets?

Yes, but it takes work because almost all audio is stored digitally. The art of the "slip cue segue" is long gone.

Stations of any significance use MusicMaster or Selector software to schedule. Those programs have the ability to create "custom fields" in the database with special rules. For example, a person who knows music could create a code based on allowing or not certain types of transitions. Or one could code the "outro" and "intro" of each song, and have a rule, for example, of "no slow fade out to a slow build in". Or any other rule the PD wanted to establish, based on the kind of instrument, the tone, whether a fade or not, etc.

I generally tried to encourage contrast, but not train wrecks. You can do that with coding if you know how to use those programs.

It is a lot harder with current based formats, as often the mechanics of tight rotations just won't allow much flexibility in scheduling. In such a case, a PD could cause the scheduler to flag a rough segue; in this case, the person doing the scheduling might insert a proper drop or liner to mask the transition.

 

[davideduardo]

The Art of Segues died long ago.

No, it did not. We just had to learn how to teach Selector of MusicMaster to do that for us. In many cases, this is actually better as we don't always remember how a song sounds at the start or finish when we are doing a whole day of music.

Many FM Album Rock stations prided themselves on seamless transitions. I worked at stations that often played 3 songs in a row without a station ID. A lot of effort was put into creating the "Sound" of the station. That's long gone with very few exceptions...

No, it's not. It is highly controllable in the software commonly used at most significant stations.

 

[gr8oldies]

Yes, but it takes work because almost all audio is stored digitally. The art of the "slip cue segue" is long gone.

Stations of any significance use MusicMaster or Selector software to schedule. Those programs have the ability to create "custom fields" in the database with special rules. For example, a person who knows music could create a code based on allowing or not certain types of transitions. Or one could code the "outro" and "intro" of each song, and have a rule, for example, of "no slow fade out to a slow build in". Or any other rule the PD wanted to establish, based on the kind of instrument, the tone, whether a fade or not, etc.

I generally tried to encourage contrast, but not train wrecks. You can do that with coding if you know how to use those programs.

It is a lot harder with current based formats, as often the mechanics of tight rotations just won't allow much flexibility in scheduling. In such a case, a PD could cause the scheduler to flag a rough segue; in this case, the person doing the scheduling might insert a proper drop or liner to mask the transition.

If you happen to follow Sean Ross on Bluesky, look for his #MomentsOfMusicSchedulingGrace.

 

[davideduardo]

If you happen to follow Sean Ross on Bluesky, look for his #MomentsOfMusicSchedulingGrace.

I can't speak more highly of Sean's understanding of both the "art" of radio and the underlying technology and economics. Anything he writes deserves reading.

 

[tbolt909]

No, it did not. We just had to learn how to teach Selector of MusicMaster to do that for us. In many cases, this is actually better as we don't always remember how a song sounds at the start or finish when we are doing a whole day of music.

No, it's not. It is highly controllable in the software commonly used at most significant stations.

Yes, you can tell Selector if a song fades or ends cold. You can categorize songs for frequency and artist separation. That's not what I was saying. Most stations do not segue songs anymore. There's usually a sweeper in between...

 

[tall_guy1]

No, it did not. We just had to learn how to teach Selector of MusicMaster to do that for us. In many cases, this is actually better as we don't always remember how a song sounds at the start or finish when we are doing a whole day of music.

No, it's not. It is highly controllable in the software commonly used at most significant stations.

How does beginning and end affect things?

 

[tall_guy1]

Funny looking at an old thread. Nothing Compares 2 You by Sinead O'Connor into Kwon's Tipsy.

 

[davideduardo]

Yes, you can tell Selector if a song fades or ends cold. You can categorize songs for frequency and artist separation. That's not what I was saying. Most stations do not segue songs anymore. There's usually a sweeper in between...

You can do lots more than just tell Selector or MusicMaster if a song is a cold or fade ending one. I am talking about giving the tips and tails a specific code category that is user defined where each PD can subjectively code and create rules on kinds of endings and kinds of fades within the framework of the station format.

For example, I could have a soft traditional ballad style fade with one code, with a sharp metals or drums based cold close as another. And so one. I could then make a rule for which kinds of tips and tails I want, and which I don't permit. I can even prioritize that kind of rule to be breakable or unbreakable.

And plenty of stations and formats have song-to-song segues. Or, they determine the sweeper they use based on the tips and tails. All is pretty doable and easy.

 

[davideduardo]

How does beginning and end affect things?

That is what often we called the "tail" and the "tip" of each song. The idea is to make the transition from one song to another sound smooth. In fact, that is why folks like David Guetta and Swedish House Mafia get paid hundreds of thousands just to do a mix session... the skill is in "mating" the songs on all kinds of feelings about the sound and beat and tempo and such.

 

[K.M. Richards]

De-lurking long enough to add another piece of information on how segues work ...

Some automation software looks for a hidden "sec tone" (yes, just like on a cart, only it's a marker which is placed by the PD or MD using Audition or the equivalent) and starts the next event when it "sees" that marker.

In that scenario, the precise segue point at the end of each song is pre-determined and will always happen at that point every time the song airs.

Going back into hiding again now.

 

[tall_guy1]

That is what often we called the "tail" and the "tip" of each song. The idea is to make the transition from one song to another sound smooth. In fact, that is why folks like David Guetta and Swedish House Mafia get paid hundreds of thousands just to do a mix session... the skill is in "mating" the songs on all kinds of feelings about the sound and beat and tempo and such.

So, per instance, the tail end of a rock song and tip of a pop song going together...would they look at the key each is in?

 

[TheBigA]

I go to a lot of concerts and most of them have DJs who fill time between acts. These guys are top notch, in the way they mix songs and entertain on stage. A lot of radio DJs could learn from watching guys like DJ Silver and others like them. They're part of major tours. They travel with their own rig. They have their own merch. And the reason I bring them up is they're all masters of the segue without the assistance of imaging or liners. They will shift tempos or keys in songs electronically to create that kind of flow. And they mix songs from different eras and genres. From a 70s song like Sweet Home Alabama to the present with Shaboozey or Lil Nas X. It can all be done in broadcast, and in some places, it does.

 

[davideduardo]

So, per instance, the tail end of a rock song and tip of a pop song going together...would they look at the key each is in?

Depends on the PD and, if there is one, MD.

I can not even hum a song. I don't know music, and stumble when I dance. So I don't use keys and other musical terms. I go by my own sound qualities that I think mimic listener response better: soft, loud, brassy, acoustic, fade, cold, romantic, aggressive and so on.

I combine this with my own judgement of tempo and "intensity" and other factors (think Phil Spector vs. Glen Campbell as comparisons of "intensity"). What you generally want is good segues that are both smooth but show variety... without being a truck crashing into a bicycle.

 

[davideduardo]

I go to a lot of concerts and most of them have DJs who fill time between acts. These guys are top notch, in the way they mix songs and entertain on stage. A lot of radio DJs could learn from watching guys like DJ Silver and others like them. They're part of major tours. They travel with their own rig. They have their own merch. And the reason I bring them up is they're all masters of the segue without the assistance of imaging or liners. They will shift tempos or keys in songs electronically to create that kind of flow. And they mix songs from different eras and genres. From a 70s song like Sweet Home Alabama to the present with Shaboozey or Lil Nas X. It can all be done in broadcast, and in some places, it does.

Remember, a mixer has only one job: mixing.

A PD not only creates music logs, they supervise shifts, handle vacations and EEO paperwork and time sheets. They meet with sales, help write copy, write and often produce liners and promos. Design contests, hire and fire, do vacation fill and a buncha' other things... like meeting with record ducks and concert promoters.

They can't manually design the flow of every segue, 24/7. They have to also be concerned with things like hour separation on play and when the song will play tomorrow and the next day and when the same artist will come up again. A club mixer only has to worry about each set. Not the one they will do later in the night, or tomorrow at a different venue with a different crowd.

 

[gr8oldies]

I can't speak more highly of Sean's understanding of both the "art" of radio and the underlying technology and economics. Anything he writes deserves reading.

Absolutely!

 

[TheBigA]

A club mixer only has to worry about each set. Not the one they will do later in the night, or tomorrow at a different venue with a different crowd.

He's doing it manually. The station uses automation.