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Song was mono - now "stereo" - which for radio?

kfbkfb

kfbkfb

De-mix Technology - Abbey Road Studios

Our De-mix process opens up access to previously locked recordings, allowing audio engineers to craft new mixes and masters. Creating a superior listening experience for music fans, our De-mix process reinvigorates catalogue and breathes new life into forgotten tracks or bootlegs.
www.abbeyroad.com www.abbeyroad.com
^^^
Once separation is complete, our engineers can begin to remix or remaster the original base recording...to stereo


AFAIK, mono versions of albums ended in ~1968 (mono mixes were done separately, they weren't the stereo mix combined to mono)

Although it's the same song (not an alternate take, for example), it would sound noticeably different in "stereo" than it did in mono.

Tech hasn't allowed this type of thing until very recently, I don't know how many pre-1969 songs are typically played on the radio, would radio likely switch over to using the "stereo" (de-mixed mono) version or stay with the mono version?


Kirk Bayne
 
Interesting question. I think oldies/nostalgia programmers would be extremely hesitant to make any song sound "different." Listeners to these songs would expect them to sound exactly the same every time. It is a very conservative group or they would be exploring newer music. I think they would perceive the new mix as "off" and not sounding right.
 
kfbkfb said:
I don't know how many pre-1969 songs are typically played on the radio, would radio likely switch over to using the "stereo" (de-mixed mono) version or stay with the mono version?
Click to expand...

There is no minister of radio. So there is no one single answer. Stations will do different things depending on how they get their music. Not every radio station gets its music from the same place.

There are a lot of oldies fans who are very loyal to the original mixes, even if they're pre-pan-pot mixes with the vocals in the left channel, and the instruments in the right. So there's that too.

That's the part of this that bothers me. Does the artist have a say in these remixes or is it something an engineer does without anyone's permission or supervision?
 
TheBigA said:
That's the part of this that bothers me. Does the artist have a say in these remixes or is it something an engineer does without anyone's permission or supervision?
Click to expand...
That is a very good question!

How many artists had a "voice and vote" on the original mix, either? Many left the studio when the voice track was laid down.

Today, the recordings have often been sold to a third party and the artist has no rights to them at all. I'd love to know how many artists have any legal right to be part of a remix today.
 
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I remember coming home from 3 years overseas in 1966 and hearing my Oldies being played in stereo on FM for the first time. I could not believe the clarity and sounds I had never heard before when they were played on mono AM.
 
landtuna said:
I remember coming home from 3 years overseas in 1966 and hearing my Oldies being played in stereo on FM for the first time. I could not believe the clarity and sounds I had never heard before when they were played on mono AM.
Click to expand...
Where were there FM stations in 1966 playing Top 40 oldies in 1966? The first FM oldies station I know of was Barry Richards' WMOD in Washington, DC in late 1968 or early 1969.

While there were a few FMs simulcasting AM contemporary stations going back to the mid-60's, in 1966 we were just recently seeing a trend to add "gold" to Top 40, and then only very recent songs and maybe 1 or 2 an hour.

In fact, in 1966 there were still quite a few FM stations that had not converted to stereo since there were more than a few that were not making any money at all.
 
DavidEduardo said:
How many artists had a "voice and vote" on the original mix, either? Many left the studio when the voice track was laid down.
Click to expand...

Depending on the genre, they often are co-producers of the music. Especially after a few hits. Some pop stars are just voices. But Sheryl Crow was a writer & producer of her hits. After a while, the artists also own the masters. The Beatles control their masters, and had oversight in the remixes that were done by the son of the original producer George Martin. That's why I asked the original question.
 
Nearly every radio station changes the sound of the source material. It is part of the programming. All that matters is if it meets the goal of the radio station.

Playing a different mix or re-recording of a hit is the 800-pound gorilla in radio sound, although many radio stations have effectively re-mixed source material with their audio processing decisions.

It is the radio station owner's decision. I think that is fine.
 
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DavidEduardo said:
Where were there FM stations in 1966 playing Top 40 oldies in 1966? The first FM oldies station I know of was Barry Richards' WMOD in Washington, DC in late 1968 or early 1969.
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I messed up. Should have said just Top 40 (which are today's Oldies....like me).

I'm not sure after all these years but I think it was KGO-FM (103.7) way back then.
 
I wish they had this tech back when there were still actual oldies stations. Of course, yeah, some are partial to the original 45 mono masters, and I get that. But a lot of what was put on oldies stations in the 80s and 90s was synth stereo and in some cases it just sounded tinny.

I heard a "stereo" version of the Yardbirds' Over Under Sideways Down last year, and it was incredible. I thought --- where the heck did this mix come from? I have the Yardbirds CDs with extra tracks, their box set, even searched Napster a long time ago for a possible stereo mix that might have been bootlegged. And of course, where I worked, there was an extensive music library -- that song was only dubbed in mono (if you were lucky) or synth stereo (unfortunately most of the copies available were that). Almost every CD and LP of the song was in synth stereo -- the only true mono one I could find was the 1966 or 67, vinyl Yardbirds Hits LP on Epic.

Turns out that the stereo version of this song I heard on YT was a result of some software that analyzes the music and separates the instruments -- sometimes not so awesomely, but some times fairly well. And this track didn't sound like junk, either, had a pretty good sound. It brought the recording to life.

Software like this has its uses.
 
kfbkfb said:

De-mix Technology - Abbey Road Studios

Our De-mix process opens up access to previously locked recordings, allowing audio engineers to craft new mixes and masters. Creating a superior listening experience for music fans, our De-mix process reinvigorates catalogue and breathes new life into forgotten tracks or bootlegs.
www.abbeyroad.com www.abbeyroad.com
^^^
Once separation is complete, our engineers can begin to remix or remaster the original base recording...to stereo


AFAIK, mono versions of albums ended in ~1968 (mono mixes were done separately, they weren't the stereo mix combined to mono)

Although it's the same song (not an alternate take, for example), it would sound noticeably different in "stereo" than it did in mono.

Tech hasn't allowed this type of thing until very recently, I don't know how many pre-1969 songs are typically played on the radio, would radio likely switch over to using the "stereo" (de-mixed mono) version or stay with the mono version?


Kirk Bayne
Click to expand...
Given that mono after 1968 was pretty rare and the audience for that music is old and getting older, I'd suggest that more of the potential for this tech is, as Abbey Road Studios says, to allow remixes of "locked" masters---where the original multitracks aren't available.

That happens a lot---original session tapes have been lost, damaged and---destroyed:

www.nytimes.com

The Day the Music Burned (Published 2019)

It was the biggest disaster in the history of the music business — and almost nobody knew. This is the story of the 2008 Universal fire.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
 
I wasn't around yet when this music was new, so I just go with whatever version sounds best to me. Usually that's the stereo version, or the stereo version edited to make it more similar to the mono version, unless the stereo version is markedly inferior for reasons other than "that's not how a 65-year-old would remember it". For example, Luther Ingram's "If Loving You Is Wrong", where the only stereo version is a re-recording that just doesn't have the same vibe as the original mono version.
 
This discussion reminds me of Capitol's use of "Duophonic", used to create some sense of stereo to Beach Boys recordings. Since Brian Wilson was deaf in one ear, all the songs were in mono.
 
IIRC, at one time, the Federal Trade Commission required songs/albums to be labeled as "electronically reprocessed to stereo".

RCA claims they invented the mono to (fake) stereo process:


My 1987 VHS of the Day the Earth Stood Still was processed w/the Chace system, I thought that the Chace system just removed the clicks/pops and hiss from optical film soundtracks, I listened to this VHS HiFi movie w/headphones and recall thinking this is pretty good for early 1950s stereo, not knowing it was (fake) stereo.


Kirk Bayne
 
DavidEduardo said:
Where were there FM stations in 1966 playing Top 40 oldies in 1966? The first FM oldies station I know of was Barry Richards' WMOD in Washington, DC in late 1968 or early 1969.
Click to expand...
WRKO-FM (98.5) Boston was running an in-house "automated" Top 40 format in 1966 and into 1967 that had a couple of gold slots each hour on its clock. Those slots were being filled by '50s hits such as "Get a Job" and "Goodbye Cruel World" at the same time "I'm a Believer" and "Standing in the Shadows of Love" were in regular rotation, being played at least once every 3 hours. (The No. 1 and 2 songs got spins every other hour.) RKO-FM wasn't a full oldies station, but eventually became one as WROR.
 
kevtronics said:
I wasn't around yet when this music was new, so I just go with whatever version sounds best to me. Usually that's the stereo version, or the stereo version edited to make it more similar to the mono version, unless the stereo version is markedly inferior for reasons other than "that's not how a 65-year-old would remember it". For example, Luther Ingram's "If Loving You Is Wrong", where the only stereo version is a re-recording that just doesn't have the same vibe as the original mono version.
Click to expand...

Probably the biggest differences were in the stereo versions of Motown singles (pre-1971). The legend was that whoever mastered their singles had a GM Delco AM radio speaker in the studio and the final test was to see what the record would sound like coming out of that.

Motown mono 45s had a punch to them that vanished on the stereo LPs.
 
CTListener said:
WRKO-FM (98.5) Boston was running an in-house "automated" Top 40 format in 1966 and into 1967 that had a couple of gold slots each hour on its clock. Those slots were being filled by '50s hits such as "Get a Job" and "Goodbye Cruel World" at the same time "I'm a Believer" and "Standing in the Shadows of Love" were in regular rotation, being played at least once every 3 hours. (The No. 1 and 2 songs got spins every other hour.) RKO-FM wasn't a full oldies station, but eventually became one as WROR.
Click to expand...
I think KHJ split its AM & FM in late '66. Once operators knew the end of simulcast was coming, smart ones tried to get ahead of it.
 
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