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Songs You Remember And Like But Never Get Played

I read that generally, a radio station gets better ratings for carrying play-by-play of a local sports team than they get for carrying out-of-town teams, even if the local team isn't as good as the two out-of-town teams.

That's pretty much of an assumption since there are relatively few cases of a prime signal station in a market with a home team carrying an out of market team's play-by-play. Of course, there is a reason which immediately comes to mind: there is little passion for the "away" team.

Music format stations brag about having their DJ's do local appearances introducing bands at concerts, even if the band's music isn't played on their station.

That's not all that common unless there is a sales-driven reason for being part of a concert. Not a good example (although giving away tickets for artists you don't play is a common thing when a station realizes its listeners also may like seeing an out of format artist).

News directors all agree that, for the most part, local news stories get better ratings than national news stories.

Nope. Stories get "ratings" (there is no story by story rating, by the way) based on relevance. Right now, the biggest story across the USA is about a plane that came down in Southeast Asia.

It seems to me that one of the problems is that when stations spend gazillions of dollars on research, they still only test the songs that they've pre-determined should be tested based on their pre-conceived ideas of what's going to succeed.

Actually, the only criteria for a music test for a gold based station is prior success of a song and a general "belonging" to the era and style of a station. Programmers generally test a lot more songs than needed just to fill the anticipated library size... often dynamically adjusting the library size in accordance with the results.

The only preconception is whether a song at least vaguely fits the station and is familiar enough to be a broad, mass appeal favorite.

I learned a long time ago, the most important thing in finding the right information is learning to ask the right questions.

Stations have been doing music testing for about four decades, and in larger markets all your competitors do it too. So everyone is thinking of how they can get competitively advantageous data from a test... and thus one-up the competitors. You kinda' think radio professionals are morons. They aren't and they try lots of things looking to win, and not all work.

I'd like to see some evidence that when these consultants test for what music to play on any station that plays "vintage" music, they include in the testing "deep cuts" from albums from the target era, and new songs from recent releases of their core artists.

First, stations that play "gold" don't play more recent songs for two reasons.

First, for the most part, those songs will be less broadly known, thus scoring lower. This has been learned over decades in all the different gold-based formats.

Second, a gold based station owns a position in its market based on specializing in an era and style. Playing more current songs "fuzzies up" that image and is detrimental. In a crowded competitive environment, messing with a station's positioning and image is very, very dangerous. The road is littered with dead stations that failed to observe the precepts of brand differentiation.

I was on a radio station's test list for a while. They'd send me links to long lists of songs that I was supposed to give quick impressions of.

That's not acceptable music testing practice. The only way to determine the answer to the question "how much do you want to hear a song on the radio today" is by playing a snippet of the song and getting a vote on a scale that covers "never" to "a lot".

But they never included deep cuts or new releases by core artists.

A gold based station will not play currents. Those that have tried, and I include myself in the list of experimenters or fools, have been rewarded with ugly results. Those of us who kept our jobs responded by not playing out-of-era music.

Deep cuts are unfamiliar cuts. Unless they were, in the time they were popular or in a few cases, later (as in being in a hit movie) widely exposed, unfamiliarity means low, low test scores. If you don't know it, you can't love it. Deep cuts are the mail-order brides of music programming.

The "experts" keep claiming everything is tested, but I have never seen any evidence of that sort of testing.

And with good reason. We don't play currents in gold formats, and if we test secondary cuts and deep cuts and find they bomb every time, song after song, we stop spending money to on testing that sort of material as it is 100% non-productive.

We always test songs that "might" fit and might score well enough to play, even if we are not playing them now. These include crossovers, songs that did not chart high but may have good scores anyway, etc., etc. And with each test, we run through a new list of "what if" songs just in case. There are no preconceptions... just the guidance of experience.

I've never had anyone in my circle of acquaintances who ever was a test subject in one of those auditorium tests who said those kinds of songs were ever included.

Then they were fortunate to have been at tests for stations that had experience, skill and knowledge of what they are doing.
 
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That's pretty much of an assumption since there are relatively few cases of a prime signal station in a market with a home team carrying an out of market team's play-by-play. Of course, there is a reason which immediately comes to mind: there is little passion for the "away" team.

The local station in a small town I lived in (which was a suburb of a mid-20's market) generally got better ratings for its coverage of local high school or small college sports than network coverage of out-of-town major college or major league pro games on other stations.

giving away tickets for artists you don't play is a common thing when a station realizes its listeners also may like seeing an out of format artist).

So, if a station's listeners like SEEING an out of format artist, that's one thing. But that doesn't mean they want to HEAR the artist? Right? I suppose you're talking about acts like Miley Cyrus singing in her skivvies.

Nope. Stories get "ratings" (there is no story by story rating, by the way) based on relevance. Right now, the biggest story across the USA is about a plane that came down in Southeast Asia.

I was referring to stations that tend to fill their newscasts with mostly local stories, versus stations that emphasize mostly national stories. Or, comparing the ratings for the local newscast compared to the national network newscast.

That's not acceptable music testing practice. The only way to determine the answer to the question "how much do you want to hear a song on the radio today" is by playing a snippet of the song and getting a vote on a scale that covers "never" to "a lot".

That's exactly what the links were to. There were snippets of songs that streamed in. I'd listen, then rate it on a sliding scale.
 
A gold based station will not play currents. Those that have tried, and I include myself in the list of experimenters or fools, have been rewarded with ugly results.

If you've been following the debate between the RIAA and the NAB over the proposed "performance royalty" for OTA radio, you'll know this is a major bone of contention with the RIAA. If it was up to record labels, all gold-based formats would go away. And radio (including satellite and internet) could pay a higher royalty for pre-1972 music.
 
A gold based station will not play currents. Those that have tried, and I include myself in the list of experimenters or fools, have been rewarded with ugly results. Those of us who kept our jobs responded by not playing out-of-era music.

It always amuses me when people refer to songs as if they were undifferentiated commodities, dispensed by the shovelful.
 
It always amuses me when people refer to songs as if they were undifferentiated commodities, dispensed by the shovelful.

Ironically, that's exactly what the music industry does. To them, all songs are equal. There is no difference between a hit and a stiff, and they should all get paid the same way.
 
No one can "fault" the record labels for wanting to ex-communicate the old music based on a business decision to produce more revenue with new music. I contend that a "tax" on the oldies will produce very little transition to newer music formats, because you still have to have format diversity to compete. So a station in a niche format, like oldies, is generally a weaker station that will pay several thousand dollars more than to try to take on the big corps and formats that will cost hundreds of thousands to compete. Plus, the world is conditioned to never pay for music in 2014. The sources for revenue are pretty narrow. I guess they have to raise the money somewhere. If they keep aiming at OTA radio, they are going to have fewer targets to strike at as the formats go away from music to talk, sports, etc.
 
Plus, the world is conditioned to never pay for music in 2014. The sources for revenue are pretty narrow.

Exactly. It's a huge problem, and is a big reason why satellite radio was never the threat it was expected to be. Add to that the huge royalty costs affecting internet radio, and you can see how the music industry itself has been its own worst enemy with regards to music on the radio.
 
Hey BigA - care to share more info on exactly what "damage" XM/Sirius has had on OTA listenership? It hasn't been the train wreck everyone expected has it? Makes me really wonder what effect will it have on radio in the next three to five years? I don't get a chance to delve into this area of the business, so I can't really discuss the subject. Maybe this board is not the proper place, but I appreciate any info you are willing to post.

Plus, I have not totally rebounded from the Melanie debate. Still a little ill, too. :)
 
Hey BigA - care to share more info on exactly what "damage" XM/Sirius has had on OTA listenership?

Even former Sirius CEO Mel Karmazin described it as negligible. Perhaps a few percentage points. They have 21 million subscribers, and OTA radio has a certified national audience of 242 million. And it's really not growing as the company hasn't added any new services, and they face new competitors. You consider that even 30 years ago OTA radio had 94% of the adult population, and now it's around 92%.
 
Ironically, that's exactly what the music industry does. To them, all songs are equal. There is no difference between a hit and a stiff, and they should all get paid the same way.

Speaking as a music fan, Mercutio summed up may feelings towards both the radio industry and the music industry in Romeo and Juliet: A plague on both their houses. Comparing the two is like debate who is smarter, Beavis or Butthead.
 
It's been my experience that most recording artists tend to be as loyal to their industry leadership as radio stations are to theirs. Maybe with only a handful of exceptions. So then your criticisms of that industry will usually extend to the artists who make up the music industry. Perhaps it could be said that they don't know any better. But that excuse also applies to radio stations.
 
"If you don't know it, you can't love it. "

Completely false.
 
"If you don't know it, you can't love it. "

Completely false.

If you analyze the process whereby a song goes from unfamiliar / new to favorite, we see that something in the range of four to six audio impressions are needed for a song to become "loved". A song is unfamiliar on first hearing, and is judged analytically just as is the process of meeting a new person or watching a new TV show.

Decades ago, when call-our music research was developed in the mid 70's, we found out that we can't decide if a song is a hit or a stiff until a station had played it around 125 times... or about 5 or 6 exposures for the average listener. Before that, a song will receive negative or low neutral-range scores which are not actionable.

So, if you do not know it, you don't love it. And it takes many exposures for the possibility of loving develops.
 


If you analyze the process whereby a song goes from unfamiliar / new to favorite, we see that something in the range of four to six audio impressions are needed for a song to become "loved". A song is unfamiliar on first hearing, and is judged analytically just as is the process of meeting a new person or watching a new TV show.

Decades ago, when call-our music research was developed in the mid 70's, we found out that we can't decide if a song is a hit or a stiff until a station had played it around 125 times... or about 5 or 6 exposures for the average listener. Before that, a song will receive negative or low neutral-range scores which are not actionable.

So, if you do not know it, you don't love it. And it takes many exposures for the possibility of loving develops.

Which explains the payola scandal of the late 1950's, when record companies paid DJ's to play their songs, to turn them into hits. And, you've just negated everything you've posted recently about how foolproof and reliable testing is. By keeping songs off the air, you ensure that they'll never test well. So, it still comes down to a bunch of guys who don't really give a damn about music sitting in a conference room and deciding which songs get fed into the system to get enough airplay to become familiar, at which point they can be turned into hits.

In another thread, didn't you sarcastically post?

Yeah, it's a terrible idea to ask listeners what they want to hear. Better to dictate to them what you want them to hear.

Doesn't deciding which songs get the 125 plays you refer to in order to enable the song to pass your tests dictating what you want them to hear?
 
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So, if you do not know it, you don't love it. And it takes many exposures for the possibility of loving develops.


So in order for the listeners to possibly "love it"...PLAY IT. (What a concept!)

On a listeners standpoint DE, you cannot win.
 
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So in order for the listeners to possibly "love it"...PLAY IT. (What a concept!)

On a listeners standpoint DE, you cannot win.

But the oldies/classic hits format is built on nostalgia. I'd love to be able to take your side, but there's very limited nostalgia for songs that haven't received significant (or any) airplay for 35+ years, and discovering new music (if "new" can be used to describe songs recorded decades ago) isn't what the format's listeners, as a rule, tune in for. Not everybody remembers every song from their grade school, high school and college days, or even every top 10 hit. The songs that make people like you and me go "Oh wow!" get a big "Huh?" from the overwhelming majority of listeners.

David DOES win from the standpoint of the average listener. Don't project your own remarkable musical memory and distaste for even three-times-a-week repetition onto the audience as a whole. They're not that involved with the music and, frankly, most of them love the songs they do hear and want to hear them often.
 
David DOES win from the standpoint of the average listener. Don't project your own remarkable musical memory and distaste for even three-times-a-week repetition onto the audience as a whole. They're not that involved with the music and, frankly, most of them love the songs they do hear and want to hear them often.

Exactly. We make our living programming to the masses, not one guy in Colorado who isn't even in our metro or a PPM reporter. He is basically a freeloader who wants us to change what we do to suit him. Not gonna happen. Even if you paid a subscription, you wouldn't get what you want.
 


Deep cuts are generally "burned out" before you play them. No passion, limited recall and recognition and considerable tune out.

People do not come to the radio to discover "new" deep cuts that were on albums issued 40 years ago and which had essentially no impact back then.

Playing those songs is a bit like throwing bricks at your transmitter: one will not knock you off the air, but if you keep doing it, eventually it will break.

That's a rather curious definition for "burned out", I would think.

I've always encountered it used in the sense of "played so often for so long that everyone is absolutely sick to death of it, even if it was one of their favorites previously", where, if it's a 45 or LP, you joke about the groove being so worn down you can play both sides at once.

I would think even those who want to hear "Brown-Eyed Girl", "Free Bird", "Hotel California", or "Stairway To Heaven" 2 or 3 more times today wouldn't have exactly the same reaction to a song they're sick of hearing and to one they don't recognize or remember. They might not care for either, but they'd know there was a difference.

There's only one kind of dead, but there's still a distinction between being executed and succumbing to cancer.
 
I don't know...for as many times as I've heard it, The Star Spangled Banner always gets a standing ovation, and people always cheer at the end of Happy Birthday. No burn-out ever registered for either song.
 
I would think even those who want to hear "Brown-Eyed Girl", "Free Bird", "Hotel California", or "Stairway To Heaven" 2 or 3 more times today wouldn't have exactly the same reaction to a song they're sick of hearing and to one they don't recognize or remember. They might not care for either, but they'd know there was a difference.
Yeah, even Mix 92.9's Facebook page once got a comment from someone who was apparently sick to death of them playing "Escape" so much. So yeah, even "they" notice when radio stations overkill certain songs.
 
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