Songs You Remember And Like But Never Get Played

[oldies76]

Once again, the issue here isn't about music or fans, but advertisers. And trust me, I've gone to agencies who've sponsored reunion tours and tried to get them to buy advertising packages on my station, and they've said no. The promoter might buy a few spots, and might want to give some tickets away. But it's not a source or real revenue for the station.

If those listeners have $100 to buy a ticket, they can afford a $15 a month satellite subscription, or buy an unlimited package from Pandora or Spotify. In return, they will be financially supporting their favorite artists, which is a benefit they don't get from OTA radio.

Either which way....OTA radio does not play enough classic hits from the late 60's, 70's and 80's, period.

And If you liked classic hits, even half as many as us "classic hits fans", you'd notice it too. You are just defending your side, which is understandable (don't get me wrong), but you do not see it, the other way at all. For you, it's 99-1...I'm asking you to meet us halfway, that's all.

And by meeting us halfway, you'd let "some" of these lost hits be played throughout the day, MIXED with the tested music, the station plays anyways. We are not saying, just play the lost hits, not at all. It's a mix, Big A...It's not asking much.

I will never understand (or accept) the logic why on earth a classic hits station will play many songs 3-5 times a day, everyday, every week. I just won't. It's absurd, crazy and wrong.

 

[TheBigA]

And by meeting us halfway, you'd let "some" of these lost hits be played throughout the day, MIXED with the tested music, the station plays anyways. We are not saying, just play the lost hits, not at all. It's a mix, Big A...It's not asking much.

A day will come, and it will be very soon, when the 60s & 70s will completely disappear. The 80s will be a few years later. Gone. Completely. So the idea of adding more music from that era is unlikely. We're heading in the other direction.

 

[oldies76]

A day will come, and it will be very soon, when the 60s & 70s will completely disappear. The 80s will be a few years later. Gone. Completely. So the idea of adding more music from that era is unlikely. We're heading in the other direction.

Well then, that's the death wish for classic hits. We're in the prime right now for mid 70's to mid 80's music, so what is radio waiting for?

On the other hand, if you're saying that classic hits is that future short lived, then why bother. Radio is dead....your "other direction". Sad.

 

[davideduardo]

Well then, that's the death wish for classic hits. We're in the prime right now for mid 70's to mid 80's music, so what is radio waiting for?

70's now appeals to people who are for the most part 55 and over. They are not a viable sales target.

While late 70's still has enough "reach" in 35-54 to be useful, the pre-75 stuff is too old.

On the other hand, if you're saying that classic hits is that future short lived, then why bother. Radio is dead....your "other direction". Sad.

"Classic Hits" will always be music that appeals to 35-54 year olds. Each year, some older songs get pulled, others that are newer get added.

 

[Avid Listener]

OK. Let's take a "significant" venue in NYC or LA or Chicago... one with perhaps around 20,000 seating capacity.

The cume of a significant station in those markets is going to be in the 1.5 million (Chicago) to 2.5 million (NY and LA) range.

So the actions of 20,000 persons seems totally insignificant.

So, 20,000 persons our of 2,500,000 isn't a big enough sample size to tell you anything about what music people want to hear, but a fraction of that in an auditorium is "scientific testing"?

 

[oldies76]

So, 20,000 persons our of 2,500,000 isn't a big enough sample size to tell you anything about what music people want to hear, but a fraction of that in an auditorium is "scientific testing"?

David will bring up the replication theory once again. In other words, 100 people sitting in an auditorium and then another 100, then another, month after month, year after year will dictate what we get to hear on classic hits. That's the research.

But yes, screw the other 20,000, who have their own favorites. And quite possibly, one or two of those 20,000 may participate in a music test, if ever.

Go figure.

 

[davideduardo]

So, 20,000 persons our of 2,500,000 isn't a big enough sample size to tell you anything about what music people want to hear, but a fraction of that in an auditorium is "scientific testing"?

It's not the same thing.

The sample used for research... any kind of quality research... is a proportional sample of the universe under study.

A concert is a group of people who may have as their only commonality is liking a particular band or, in a percentage of cases, liking a person who likes a particular band.

A radio stations that appeals only to a show that sells out a venue may only get those people as listeners. On the other hand, research will reveal how much of that band and lots of others should be played on a station that plays more than one artist.

 

[ok walters]

Either which way....OTA radio does not play enough classic hits from the late 60's, 70's and 80's, period.

And If you liked classic hits, even half as many as us "classic hits fans", you'd notice it too. You are just defending your side, which is understandable (don't get me wrong), but you do not see it, the other way at all. For you, it's 99-1...I'm asking you to meet us halfway, that's all.

And by meeting us halfway, you'd let "some" of these lost hits be played throughout the day, MIXED with the tested music, the station plays anyways. We are not saying, just play the lost hits, not at all. It's a mix, Big A...It's not asking much.

I will never understand (or accept) the logic why on earth a classic hits station will play many songs 3-5 times a day, everyday, every week. I just won't. It's absurd, crazy and wrong.

Once again emotion is talking, and BigA is talking from a business standpoint. OTA radio plays the number of classic hits that are most commercially viable - the one that draws the biggest audience for the longest period of time. Deep cuts or "lost hits" will not be in the mix as to most listeners they are just that - lost or too deep to remember. The "lost hits" moniker is a little strange though - if they were really hits for more than 10 minutes they wouldn't be lost.

 

[firepoint525]

You misunderstand me. I'm trying to provide a solution to your particular problem. Read the rest of my post.

When yahoo has a story on their home page about the most overplayed songs of all time, and most of the ones on that list are ones that I, too, would have voted for, it is absurd to suggest that everyone in the country is listening to the exact same station(s) as me.

It is also amusing that I can go on a weekend drive (which I did yesterday) and pick up a station playing LOTS of cool songs that I cannot here over the air here, including some that the "experts" on here would call "stiffs" now.

And no, NO ONE here is calling for b-sides or "deep cuts." So drop that argument, ok walters.

And note to David Eduardo: Billy Joel ROCKED the house at Bridgestone over the weekend, and he had no problem filling up the place. I was there. It was a great show! The next day, a local dj, who was at that show, referred to a couple of songs that he performed as "deep cuts," but the reality is that if you are a Billy Joel fan, you should at least be familiar with ALL the songs he plays, unless he were to pull out a new one (which he didn't).

 

[Avid Listener]

David will bring up the replication theory once again. In other words, 100 people sitting in an auditorium and then another 100, then another, month after month, year after year will dictate what we get to hear on classic hits. That's the research.

But yes, screw the other 20,000, who have their own favorites. And quite possibly, one or two of those 20,000 may participate in a music test, if ever.

Go figure.

More importantly, he totally missed my point. I said that people within the target age demo are spending $100 or more on tickets to go to concerts of the artists who are the core of the "classic" rock era. The point wasn't that the bands are selling tickets to rich old baby boomers. The point is that people who weren't even born when the classic rock acts were at their peak are paying big money to hear those "old" bands.

The paradigm that each generation only likes the music that was on their transistor radios when they were in high school is what's wrong. The assumption that you can only attract people of a certain age by playing the music of their teenaged years was true decades ago, but it is no longer true today. TIMES HAVE CHANGED.

 

[davideduardo]

And note to David Eduardo: Billy Joel ROCKED the house at Bridgestone over the weekend, and he had no problem filling up the place. I was there.

Did they do "End Stage" or "Half House" at the Arena? The former is about 18,000 and the latter is 10,000.

Since concerts like that draw from wide areas, we are talking about perhaps 0.3% of the usage area population.

The next day, a local dj, who was at that show, referred to a couple of songs that he performed as "deep cuts," but the reality is that if you are a Billy Joel fan, you should at least be familiar with ALL the songs he plays, unless he were to pull out a new one (which he didn't).

But the average listeners, who likes some but not all Billy Joel songs is going to consider them either deep cuts or moderately unfamiliar / negative.

 

[davideduardo]

The point is that people who weren't even born when the classic rock acts were at their peak are paying big money to hear those "old" bands.

And my point is that the number of people needed to fill an auditorium is minuscule compared to the number of listeners needed to sustain a major market radio station.

The paradigm that each generation only likes the music that was on their transistor radios when they were in high school is what's wrong.

No, it's not wrong because life-long musical tastes are formed in the years of early adolesence. Everything beyond that is a progression from there. While some people will broaden their tastes, most follow a linear pattern.

And the only reason why any people who listen to classic hits enjoy songs "before their time" is that many of the bigger songs have been kept alive by stations playing oldies along with currents, thus exposing teens and young adults to big songs that came out while they were still in childhood.

The assumption that you can only attract people of a certain age by playing the music of their teenaged years was true decades ago, but it is no longer true today. TIMES HAVE CHANGED.

That's just not true, and it never was. There is no such assumption about "teenaged(sic)" years and I have never, ever seen programming based on such a concept. The basis for radio programming is to play songs that are liked today within the rather fuzzy confines of a particular format. That means finding out what a target audience likes today and playing it today.

If you take a classic hits station in, for illustration purposes, Los Angeles, we see that some listeners also use AC stations. Some also use country. Some use CHR and Hot AC. Some use classic rock. Some use Spanish AC, and others use Regional Mexican. Yet they all agree on giving some of their listening time to the classic hits station. Thus, that station has to play ONLY songs that all these different constituencies agree on. If they go to rock, they lose the AC and country and Spanish language format sharing... if they go too country they lose everyone else. And, of course, they can't play Spanish language music as they would lose half the audience.

Further, they know that there are too many niche formats to play 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's, so they focus principally on a bell curve sitting at around 1980. It gives them the "center" for music and the right target for the ages agencies often buy.

 

[TheBigA]

The assumption that you can only attract people of a certain age by playing the music of their teenaged years was true decades ago, but it is no longer true today. TIMES HAVE CHANGED.

Maybe, but not in the way that helps classic hits. More older people (35+) are interested in currents today than 30 years ago. They want to know what's going on now, and aren't as wedded to the music of their youth. That's part of what's fueling the country music boom right now. This is an adult format, aiming at people in their 30s and 40s, that is currents-based. For this format, the music starts in the late 90s, but has a heavy dose of currents. The heavy currents get five spins a day. No worry about repetition, because it's all new. This is a generation that wasn't raised on country, but rock. They're looking for current music that sounds like what they grew up with. They're finding familiar artists like Sheryl Crow and Darius Rucker doing new music, mixed with lots of new artists they see on TV, like Blake Shelton or Keith Urban.

So yes, adults today aren't as attracted to the music of their youth. Some of them want to hear current music. That spells danger for classic formats.

 

[ok walters]

When yahoo has a story on their home page about the most overplayed songs of all time, and most of the ones on that list are ones that I, too, would have voted for, it is absurd to suggest that everyone in the country is listening to the exact same station(s) as me.

It is also amusing that I can go on a weekend drive (which I did yesterday) and pick up a station playing LOTS of cool songs that I cannot here over the air here, including some that the "experts" on here would call "stiffs" now.

And no, NO ONE here is calling for b-sides or "deep cuts." So drop that argument, ok walters.

And note to David Eduardo: Billy Joel ROCKED the house at Bridgestone over the weekend, and he had no problem filling up the place. I was there. It was a great show! The next day, a local dj, who was at that show, referred to a couple of songs that he performed as "deep cuts," but the reality is that if you are a Billy Joel fan, you should at least be familiar with ALL the songs he plays, unless he were to pull out a new one (which he didn't).

Deep cuts have been talked about on every page of this thread - if you don't want deep cuts, what do you want that they are not playing now? Judging by the thread, you want songs like Melanie's Brand New key to be included because it hit number 1 for a few weeks and then plummeted off the charts. Let's bring back Disco Duck and Monster Mash - they both hit number one too.

Hell, the DJ in your post even called some Billy Joel songs deep cuts and you disagreed with that too, saying true Billy Joel fans know them all. That is true - except for only a small percentage of listeners to that station are "true Billy Joel fans" so it is in fact a deep cut whether you call it that or not.

Go on that same weekend drive on a Tuesday and see what you hear when it really matters. If you are going to ever play a "stiff" or a "deep cut" it will happen on the weekend or at night, not during the prime listening hours.

 

[Tibbs4]

Firepoint - funny you would mention the Billy Joel concert. What Nashville radio stations actually aired commercials for his show? And what station was it that played some of his lesser known songs and talked about the concert? And, one more querstion my friend - what was that station out of the market that you were listening too? No, as for the Billy Joel songs and surveys of overplayed music - he makes the lists for driving people crazy with over kill.

 

[firepoint525]

Did they do "End Stage" or "Half House" at the Arena? The former is about 18,000 and the latter is 10,000.

We were actually behind the stage, if that answers your question.

But the average listeners, who likes some but not all Billy Joel songs is going to consider them either deep cuts or moderately unfamiliar / negative.

Those folks weren't at the show, either. I would not expect a more casual fan to buy a ticket to hear a bunch of songs that he/she won't like or aren't familiar with. Big difference between that and hearing them for free over the radio.

 

[firepoint525]

You are now admitting that when an "overplayed" song comes on, for a listener to "switch the station".
Exactly...you have a glimmer of hope to what we've been discussing all this time. People "switching the station" when an "overplayed" song comes on (but to you, a positively tested song) is exactly what causes ratings to drop.
So see, it does not matter if a tested song airs, or a lost hit airs, if the listener is tired of either, they will "switch the station the minute it comes on". Thank you.

This is (kinda sorta) the same argument that I have made on here for YEARS! They will tell me that "oh, that button is so close if you play a stiff," but when I point out that it is JUST as close when you play "Hotel California," they develop what I call "convenient amnesia," go on to another thread, and then hope that my reply is buried under a page or two of other replies, so that they can conveniently "miss" it.

Maybe Big A is hedging his bets on the same corporation owning ALL the major stations in town, so that if you leave, for instance, a Clear Channel station, you will just tune to another one. (Although there is no guarantee of that!) Only one of my presets on my earlier list is for a Clear Channel station. Two are for South Central stations, and I believe that that is the most for any one corporation's stations.

 

[davideduardo]

We were actually behind the stage, if that answers your question.

The arena has two configurations for concerts. One is the whole arena with the stage at the "far" end with just the small area of behind the stage seats blocked. The other configures the venue for about half that number of seats with a different stage and seating layout.

 

[firepoint525]

Deep cuts have been talked about on every page of this thread - if you don't want deep cuts, what do you want that they are not playing now? Judging by the thread, you want songs like Melanie's Brand New key to be included because it hit number 1 for a few weeks and then plummeted off the charts. Let's bring back Disco Duck and Monster Mash - they both hit number one too.
Hell, the DJ in your post even called some Billy Joel songs deep cuts and you disagreed with that too, saying true Billy Joel fans know them all. That is true - except for only a small percentage of listeners to that station are "true Billy Joel fans" so it is in fact a deep cut whether you call it that or not.
Go on that same weekend drive on a Tuesday and see what you hear when it really matters. If you are going to ever play a "stiff" or a "deep cut" it will happen on the weekend or at night, not during the prime listening hours.

I can go to almost any other market and hear songs that I am not hearing here. It never fails. And I indeed DID hear "Disco Duck" yesterday. Wife and I both loved it! I would go back on a weekday, but unfortunately, I have a job. Maybe when I am on vacation.

I am standing my ground with regard to Billy Joel. Those are not "deep cuts" to his fans. Who really gives a damn what the casual listener thinks? They were not at the show! And this station does indeed play some Billy Joel songs that the other stations ignore. Like "Root Beer Rag" for instance.

And for that matter, they play Melanie, too.

 

[davideduardo]

This is (kinda sorta) the same argument that I have made on here for YEARS! They will tell me that "oh, that button is so close if you play a stiff," but when I point out that it is JUST as close when you play "Hotel California," they develop what I call "convenient amnesia," go on to another thread, and then hope that my reply is buried under a page or two of other replies, so that they can conveniently "miss" it.

Music tests cover the love to hate spectrum as well as burn. A positive testing song with a lot of burn will be played less than one with less burn or no burn.

Stiffs (or what you call "forgotten" songs) essentially have scores below neutral. Most have low burn scores, as they have not been played since they had their few minutes of fame.