Sonidero & Spanish Rap

[DannyGL]

I believe that Sonidero will start making its way to the main stream, replacing alot of the regayton on Latin Urban radio. That with a touch of Spanish Rap music.

 

[OldGringo]

I believe that Sonidero will start making its way to the main stream, replacing alot of the regayton on Latin Urban radio. That with a touch of Spanish Rap music.

Sonidero is pretty much dead, because the labels in mexico have cut loos most of th e artists and are not producing nearly any cumbia / sonidero music. The reason is that they lost money on it, as it was mostly pirated and hardly any got sold in retail outlets. The big cumbia and sonidero labels like DISA have pretty much stopped production, and thestations that played sonidero have gone away or more mainstream cumbia and tropoical based on oldies going back to the Santanera.

 

[DannyGL]

I dont know man?? I just came back from Mexico and seen Sonidero events with adds on TV, I heard the Machete Music is about to sign Sonidero Nacional, and Cumbia is more Latin Culture ting up and down the Americas.

There are still alot of Sonidero remixes being done or Pop songs... i dunno, I see it coming

 

[-juan-]

I think that once Latin Urban dies out, it will just die. I don't think cumbias and sonidero will be close to replacing it. If any, Spanish Pop may replace it. Or they may even spin a new format. But not sonidero. I haven't heard that type of music in the airwaves in a very long time! Do they even have a 24/7 Sonidero music going on anywhere in Mexico or the US? FM or AM?( I doubt it )

 

[OldGringo]

I think that once Latin Urban dies out, it will just die. I don't think cumbias and sonidero will be close to replacing it. If any, Spanish Pop may replace it. Or they may even spin a new format. But not sonidero. I haven't heard that type of music in the airwaves in a very long time! Do they even have a 24/7 Sonidero music going on anywhere in Mexico or the US? FM or AM?( I doubt it )

No, there are no sonidero stations. Some of the grupera FMs in Monterrey and that area play a lot of cumbia and vallenato, but more mainstream stuff... not the sonidero mixes and extreme material.

As I said, the record labels have pretty much abandoned the genres, as there was so much piracy (particularly in remix CDs sold on the street) that they could not even cover costs. DISA, the largest producer of dance tropical basically quite producing any towards the end of 2005.

People buy the pirate CDs for parties, but they don't listen to it on the radio.

Reggaetón is now in its 20th year, and is expanding considerably. You hear the music all over Latin America now, smehting that did not happen 2 to 3 years ago. It´s part of the new pop, and in many areas, has replaced pop almost entirely.

 

[DannyGL]

I dunno man!!


The way I see it is, what Freestyle was in the 80 to mid 90's, thats what Reggeaton is in the 2000's. I could be wrong, but thats how i see it. At the start of this year I took a trip to South America, I visited Argentina and Chile in Dec - Jan, then in March and again in May I went to Mexico, and the one thing I found in common was Cumbia all over the streets, no matther where I went.


I guess we will see

 

[OldGringo]

I dunno man!!


The way I see it is, what Freestyle was in the 80 to mid 90's, thats what Reggeaton is in the 2000's. I could be wrong, but thats how i see it. At the start of this year I took a trip to South America, I visited Argentina and Chile in Dec - Jan, then in March and again in May I went to Mexico, and the one thing I found in common was Cumbia all over the streets, no matther where I went.


I guess we will see

Cumbia (bailanta in Argentina) is low class music appealing to older, over 30 demos. I owned a cumbia staton in the 60's and it was #1 in low income, and on in every taxi... very low class. No full, licensed Buenos Aires station plays bailanta, as it is so "villera" you can not sell ads on a bailanta station. Same in Chile... low class, no tropical station in top 10, and impossible to sell to advertisers.

 

[DannyGL]

well, Im talking about the 2000's not the 60's The Buenos Aires that I saw, was teens and young adults rolling up in their cars to the clubs at around 1 or 2am blasting cumbia or dance music. Thats what I saw!!

 

[OldGringo]

well, Im talking about the 2000's not the 60's The Buenos Aires that I saw, was teens and young adults rolling up in their cars to the clubs at around 1 or 2am blasting cumbia or dance music. Thats what I saw!!

Dance and bialanta are two different things. Dance is techno, euro, etc. Bailanta is "cumbia villera" (cumbia from the slums, literally) and has absolutely no middle class and upper class appeal. That is why it is not on the radio on any legal station (there are some cumbia pirates) because there is no revenue reaching only the slums.

Cumbia is Colombian folk music dating back centuries. The Argentine form dates to groups like Los Wawanco in the mid-60's. While it may be played at dances and parties, it has zero radio appeal. Most "decent" record stores do not even stock it in Bs. As. as it would "cheapen" the estsablishment... bailanta is sold at street kiosks in low income districts, and around inter-provincial bus stations.

Teens listen to pop and Argentine rock... stations like Rock&Pop and Mega and Cuarenta Principales, not bailanta.

In Mexico, sonidero is considered ultra-low class. The dances are affairs with 10,000 people in an ugly auditoreum drinking and dancing. The main reason why very little tropical of that kind is played on the radio in Mexico is that the audience is not desired by advertisers as the listeners have no income.

 

[HighDef]

That was perhaps the saddest and most generalized definition of a music genre ever. Hey Gringo...Asians are good at math and only Jews sell jewelry. Sheesh.

 

[OldGringo]

That was perhaps the saddest and most generalized definition of a music genre ever. Hey Gringo...Asians are good at math and only Jews sell jewelry. Sheesh.

I am not even sure what you are referring to. Do you mean my definition of "cumbia?" For some reason you seem to be offended by a totally real description of the appeal and extension of cumbia across Latin America.

Cumbia is a folkloric music of Colombia, and one specific area of Colombia to be more precise. It is a union of native, African and European music forms that goes back way over a century in its origins. It did not break out of the rural areas of northern Colombia until well into the 20th Century, and then mostly in places like Barranquilla and Cartagena, later expanding to Cali and then the rest of the nation. Today, it has been eclipsed by slasa among the higher income tropical fans, and vallenato in the lower levels.

Since radio ratings in Latin America are done by socio-economic levels (Arbitron, IBOPE, INRA, etc.), the income of listeners is very important. This is not a stereotyping, either, as advertisers demand to know if a station has listeners with enough money to buy specific products. And different music forms appeal, usually, to very specific S/E levels.

But only in the 60's did it expand much beyond Colombia itself, first to Ecuador and Venezuela where bands like the Billo's Caracas Boys and the Blacio Junior picked it up and added it to their repertoirs. Later, it spread to Mexico where the Sonora Santanera adopted it among the first. In Perú, Enrique Lynch's band popularized it, and in Argentina groups like Los Wawanco adapted it to the local tastes.

Today, in Argentina there is a very different sound to the cumbia than one would hear in Colombia. No longer called "cumbia" by most, "bailanta" music is widely heard in the poorest suburbs of Buenos Aires and the interior of Argentina. As mentioned, no major licensed station in Buenos Aires programs it, as the income level of listeners to "cumbia villera" is so low that advertisers do not buy ads on such stations. This is a reality, and whether you think it is a stereotype, the fact is that atrtists like Rodrigo and Gilda are folk heros of the lowest S/E groups and seldm heard outside of them.

Today, in Mexico, another adaptation of the cumbia, the "cumbia grupera" has been created. Seldom are true Colombian artists heard, but the cumbia and vallenato bands of Monterrey are very popular for dances and such among C-, D and E socioeconomic levels all over Mexico.

In Perú, an interesting form of Technocumbia has been developed, with artists like Rosy War at the forefront.

So the rhythm danced in rural Colombia while holding a lit candle now has multiple derivatives all over Latin America.

For some samples of Mexican cumbia, you can try the Mexican Tropical tab at http://www.hispanicformats.com

 

[DannyGL]

well, Im talking about the 2000's not the 60's The Buenos Aires that I saw, was teens and young adults rolling up in their cars to the clubs at around 1 or 2am blasting cumbia or dance music. Thats what I saw!!

Dance and bialanta are two different things. Dance is techno, euro, etc. Bailanta is "cumbia villera" (cumbia from the slums, literally) and has absolutely no middle class and upper class appeal. That is why it is not on the radio on any legal station (there are some cumbia pirates) because there is no revenue reaching only the slums.

Cumbia is Colombian folk music dating back centuries. The Argentine form dates to groups like Los Wawanco in the mid-60's. While it may be played at dances and parties, it has zero radio appeal. Most "decent" record stores do not even stock it in Bs. As. as it would "cheapen" the estsablishment... bailanta is sold at street kiosks in low income districts, and around inter-provincial bus stations.

Teens listen to pop and Argentine rock... stations like Rock&Pop and Mega and Cuarenta Principales, not bailanta.

In Mexico, sonidero is considered ultra-low class. The dances are affairs with 10,000 people in an ugly auditoreum drinking and dancing. The main reason why very little tropical of that kind is played on the radio in Mexico is that the audience is not desired by advertisers as the listeners have no income.

WOW!! I can't believe you wrote that shit! LOl I'm sorry man, but your talking outta your ass.


I go back and forth from both Mexico and Argentina, Cumbia is very weel stocked in Record stores right in downtown Buenos Aires, right along all the record stores on La Florida Ave. Yes Teens listen to alot of rock, but there is a huge number of teens the listen to Cumbia in Argentina. On a Friday and Saturday night you can walk down the street with having cars drive by blasting Cumbias. Cumbia is in Argrentina what Hip Hop is to the US.


As far as Sonidero goes its very very up scale. If you know about Mexico like you claim you do you know that they have Sonidero clubs in San Pedro and in Garza Garcia of the Monterrey Area, which is equivalen to Beverly Hills in CA.

Its also obvious that you have no idea how it it's market really is and who it reaches... here watch this and you tell me?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuq5QtSNaco

 

[davideduardo]

Dance and bialanta are two different things. Dance is techno, euro, etc. Bailanta is "cumbia villera" (cumbia from the slums, literally) and has absolutely no WOW!! I can't believe you wrote that ------! LOl I'm sorry man, but your talking outta your ass.

Ever heard of Mega 98.3, the #1 FM in Argentina and the highest cuming station in the Western Hemisphere in 2000-2004? Then go to http://www.davidgleason.com/1999-Mega.htm and read about it. I won a Martin Fierro award for the programming, and they don't hand those out for minor achievements in radio; they have never handed one to a bailanta station.

I go back and forth from both Mexico and Argentina, Cumbia is very weel stocked in Record stores right in downtown Buenos Aires, right along all the record stores on La Florida Ave.

It is "Avenida Florida" and not "Avenida La Florida." That indicates to some extent your lack of knowledge. And Florida is in downtown Bs. As., if there is such a thing...

In Argentina, the music is not called cumbia. It is called bailanta, anyway.

And it is really low class in appeal. The reason that there is no successful FM playing bailanta, or "cumbia villera " (slum cumbia") is that it is so low class that advertisers will not touch it... all arrabal and villa listening, no income, no spending power.

Yes Teens listen to alot of rock, but there is a huge number of teens the listen to Cumbia in Argentina.

Mostly changos, mostly very low socioeconomic level persons. And not enough to even make a radio station successful.

On a Friday and Saturday night you can walk down the street with having cars drive by blasting Cumbias. Cumbia is in Argrentina what Hip Hop is to the US.

Actually, bailanta is proovincial, low income and mostly older demos, definitely over 25 or 30. The devotees of Snta Gilda are, based on reports from the TV stations, in thier 40's mostly... at least the ones who make the trek to the site of the bus crash so that Gilda will turn their life around... that's the cumbia villera crowd.

As far as Sonidero goes its very very up scale.

No, it is not. The fact that it appeals to some upscale youth as a music to accompany the weekly tequila refill does nothing to dispell the fact that cumbia appeals mostly to DE S/E groups, as proven by the Arbitron numbers for stations that play grupera and cumbia.

If you know about Mexico like you claim you do you know that they have Sonidero clubs in San Pedro and in Garza Garcia of the Monterrey Area, which is equivalen to Beverly Hills in CA.

And what is the capacity of one of those clubs vs. the total population of Monterrey? I rest my case.

Its also obvious that you have no idea how it it's market really is and who it reaches... here watch this and you tell me?

I owned my first all-cumbia station in 1965 (HCFV1) and built several more. I was at the first Festival de la Leyenda Vallenata and met López Michelson, Juancho Polo, Luis Pitre and many others. I presented the Hispanos and the Graduados in Ecuador. I've been to the Festival in Guararé. I have danced to the Corraleros de Majagual and to the Sonora Santanera, too. To Los Melódicos and to La Billo's and to Blacio Junior and Eduardo Zurita. I have thousands of cumbias in my collection, going back to things like Lucho Bermúdes and Los Teen Agers, and even more vallenatos... I have a caja and guacharaca at home.

Please don't tell me what the cumbia, the gaita, the pasaeito and the porro are.

 

[RadioFixerCLE]

No, it is not. The fact that it appeals to some upscale youth as a music to accompany the weekly tequila refill does nothing to dispell the fact that cumbia appeals mostly to DE S/E groups, as proven by the Arbitron numbers for stations that play grupera and cumbia.

David, what is a DE S/E group? Thanks

 

[davideduardo]

No, it is not. The fact that it appeals to some upscale youth as a music to accompany the weekly tequila refill does nothing to dispell the fact that cumbia appeals mostly to DE S/E groups, as proven by the Arbitron numbers for stations that play grupera and cumbia.

David, what is a DE S/E group? Thanks

Most market statistics in Latin America, including radio ratings are divided into 5 socioeconomic strata, with A being upper income, B and, sometimes, C+ being middle class, D being blue collar and E being marginal (barter, living in siezed property, street sellers, etc.)