Sony HD Radio at Best Buy

[Mike Walker]

Where are they "easily found at retail"? Only at the largest retailers...Best Buy, Circuit City, Radio Shack, Wal Mart, Crutchfield, J&R Music World, Amazon.com, Apple, JC Penney, Sony Style, Target, and at these regional retailers http://www.hdradio.com/hdradio_retailers.php

In cars from BMW, Hyundai, Ford, Lincoln, Mercedes, Mercury, Mini, Scion, and Volvo.

From brands like Accurian, Audio Design Associates, Boston Acoustics, Cambridge Soundworks, Coby, DaySequerra, Denon, Dice, Directed Electronics, Iluv, Insignia, Integra, Jensen, JVC, Marantz, Niles, Onkyo, Polk, Radiosophy, Rotel, Sangean, Sony, Visteon, Yamaha, Alpine, Axxess, Dice, Dual, Perpetual Electronics, Pioneer, and VO3.

HD is in everything from 100 dollar table systems, to ultra-expensive component systems. I've seen it at dozens of stores. I could buy it from probably 10 places within a half-hour drive of my home, and I live in a tiny rural community. The "you can't find it anywhere" and 'there are no products" arguments made some sense a year ago. You might want to keep up to date!

 

[KB1OKL]

Where are they "easily found at retail"? Only at the largest retailers...Best Buy, Circuit City, Radio Shack, Wal Mart, Crutchfield, J&R Music World, Amazon.com, Apple, JC Penney, Sony Style, Target, and at these regional retailers http://www.hdradio.com/hdradio_retailers.php

In cars from BMW, Hyundai, Ford, Lincoln, Mercedes, Mercury, Mini, Scion, and Volvo.

From brands like Accurian, Audio Design Associates, Boston Acoustics, Cambridge Soundworks, Coby, DaySequerra, Denon, Dice, Directed Electronics, Iluv, Insignia, Integra, Jensen, JVC, Marantz, Niles, Onkyo, Polk, Radiosophy, Rotel, Sangean, Sony, Visteon, Yamaha, Alpine, Axxess, Dice, Dual, Perpetual Electronics, Pioneer, and VO3.

HD is in everything from 100 dollar table systems, to ultra-expensive component systems. I've seen it at dozens of stores. I could buy it from probably 10 places within a half-hour drive of my home, and I live in a tiny rural community. The "you can't find it anywhere" and 'there are no products" arguments made some sense a year ago. You might want to keep up to date!

Maybe in the fantasy land in the link you posted that is probably from the ibquity website Mike you can find millions of them, but I've seen exactly 5 in my travels in the past year, none at Radio Shack, (and they are quite a few R.S's here in central MA, and none at Walmart, (quite a few of them also) two at Circuit City among about 30 car receivers, and I was told they wouldn't receive in the building and was then steered toward satellite radio and 2 at best buy among probably 40 car receivers (neither worked). I found one at an electronics store near Boston, this one worked (it ought to work it was less than a mile from a major transmitter which has HD stations on it and is highly touted for it's sensitivity and selectivity IN ANALOG) but the asking price was 200.00 (on sale of course from 250.00) I would have MAYBE given them 20.00 for it. it had tiny little tinny sounding speakers in it and I noticed no great change in fidelity when it switched to HD, and again I was told that AM did not work in the store, the loop wasn't even hooked up and they wouldn't pull another out of the OPEN boxes of probable returns for me and this was less than 20 miles from powerhouse 50 KW WBZ. I live about 5 miles from the 2nd largest city in New England and 40 miles from Boston BTW. Maybe HD is the biggest thing since sliced bread in NC but here in MA it doesn't exist as consumer goods unless you REALLY go looking for them and then good luck finding someone who knows how to get them to work or even knows what you are talking about. When a salesman will not spend 5 minutes helping a consumer to try an HD radio or tries to steer you toward something else, usually Satellite, you KNOW they know they have a bomb on their hands. These guys are selling all the time, they know what sells and what doesn't, they also knows what works and what doesn't AND they also know what is returned and what isn't. They are in the business of selling to make money, they sell what sells and avoid what doesn't, very simple concept.

 

[Savage]

Well, Mike, I understand you really like HD-FM and believe that it offers a new future for terrestrial broadcasting. That's your opinion and I value it highly.

At the same time I have to say that your statement that HD Radios are "widely available" is just not generally borne out in the experiences of most in the field. That certainly hasn't been what many posters here have found. The same criticism has been made nationally in many other forums.

Some coverage to note in this week's RW: Quote from Milford Smith of Greater Media, one of the HD gurus: "If (the HD rollout) goes on with no corrective action (referring to lousy digital coverage vs. analog) I think we've got some real issues with viability of HD Radio...." He's expressing a personal opinion that the 10db digital level should be adopted. I say it won't, at least on a widespread basis, because the additional problems will be many. The interference will raise a storm of complaints and not many stations will be able to afford the sharply increased fixed operating and capital costs associated with the increase.

Bert Goldman, NRSC member and engineering veep of Independence Media: "...substantial harm could be inflicted upon hundreds of analog FM stations that count on their 60 dBu contours." And: "NPR (Labs) found that an IBOC power increase would benefit home listening most but that the resulting increased interference likely would hurt analog mobile coverage."

Add the concerns about coverage and interference to the general non-availability of receivers, mix in the dismal Alliance marketing effort and profound audience disinterest, and you've got trouble with a capital T and that rhymes with "H-D."

 

[OKCRadioGuy]

The whole -10 thing is a joke in my mind. It will cost too much for most stations that already spent the money to go HD to spend it again for th increase. I can see some stations doing more power, especially if they are class A FMs, but not on a wide-scale basis. Radios are certainly available if a person seeks them out. The problem is if radios aren't out at all of the brick-and-morter outlets and hooked up the majority of the public just isn't going to bother. Corporate radio sure has spent a lot of money on something with very little return anytime soon. Would they have put that money into a talent that could have, let's say, returned them their investment in a couple of years? Hell no. Welcome to Corporate Amerika where no sense makes sense.

 

[Savage]

Oh, and I forgot: same issue of RW, "HD Radio News" department, page 20....a feature titled:

"Steep Climb for Auto HD Radios" In eastern Missouri, a tour of auto dealerships yields few HD Radios

Author James Withers goes on to chronicle a shopping experience for HD car radios which closely approximates that of KB1OKL, above, concluding:

"The unfortunate conclusion of this story is that, in my part of Missouri, HD Radio is largely absent from new cars at this point....given the lack of knowledge among salespeople about the product, it is also fair to say (and these salespeople acknowledged) there is little, if any, customer demand...."

Sorry, Mike, but there you have documented experience from Massachusetts, New York and Missouri. Maybe your North Carolina HD availability is much better, but I would have to wonder why that would be.

 

[TheBigA]

(and these salespeople acknowledged) there is little, if any, customer demand...."

I know others have pointed this out, but this was the exact same experience many consumers had in the 50s and early 60s when they sought FM radios.

Quite often, the only place that sold them were Hi Fi stores, where the starting price was $500 for a componant system.

FM radio in a car was also an expensive option.

The programming was awful, and some stations were such a waste that their owners simply gave the licenses away as tax write offs.

There was no customer demand for FM either. None at all. Hmm. How'd that end up?

By the way, early FM Stereo Multiplex was also terrible, with lots of drift and interference. It sucked for a long time. Most people prefered to just listen in mono.

Don't misunderstand this as being an endorsement of HD. Just because I point out the other side doesn't mean I'm a rah rah member of the alliance. I have nothing to do with either side. But I've heard it all before. Several times over.

 

[KB1OKL]

(and these salespeople acknowledged) there is little, if any, customer demand...."

I know others have pointed this out, but this was the exact same experience many consumers had in the 50s and early 60s when they sought FM radios.

Quite often, the only place that sold them were Hi Fi stores, where the starting price was $500 for a componant system.

FM radio in a car was also an expensive option.

The programming was awful, and some stations were such a waste that their owners simply gave the licenses away as tax write offs.

There was no customer demand for FM either. None at all. Hmm. How'd that end up?

By the way, early FM Stereo Multiplex was also terrible, with lots of drift and interference. It sucked for a long time. Most people prefered to just listen in mono.

Don't misunderstand this as being an endorsement of HD. Just because I point out the other side doesn't mean I'm a rah rah member of the alliance. I have nothing to do with either side. But I've heard it all before. Several times over.

I remember FM, even in the late 60's the range was pretty bad although not anywhere near as bad as HD.
The thing that pushed FM over the edge was not the medium itself, it was the content. FM radio with underground stations and then album oriented rock completely changed the way people listened to the radio, radio was wide open then on the FM band because as you say they weren't making any money so they didn't care. People didn't care that it was FM at all, they just eventually associated FM with a totally new kind of radio, FM just lucked out basically, a brand new type of radio started out and grew up on FM. AM radio was so entrenched in top 40 then that it couldn't change and seemed really old fashioned over night, all the new bands broke on FM radio for the most part. I remember my own hometown AM station WORC playing The Canned Heat and they had a little jingle they would play that went "Worcestertown Underground" before they played them, the music was so different than all the other stuff they were playing at the time that they had to use a jingle before it to delineate it because compared to the top 40 of the time (Englebird Humperdink for ex.) that this music sounded like it was from outer space. Now this music was normal stuff on FM radio in 1969 and 1970. You could hear Roland Kirk, Led Zeppelin, Frank Zappa and Joan Baez all in the same set. The difference between the content on FM and AM was striking in those days. AM radio all of a sudden seemed so yesterday and it wasn't because of the Amplitude Modulation, it was because of the content, FM was wide open and the jocks played anything they wanted to play, was a very creative period in radio on the FM end. That is what started the big AM slide, it was nothing to do with the sound of AM as so many people try to say it was the attitude, music, creativity and free for all atmosphere of FM radio, was a very fortuitous time for FM.
Which brings me to HD.
What do we have new with HD besides a pretty light and lousy range? Nothing. That is why HD is failing, because it is bringing nothing new to the plate.

 

[dumber than a box of hair]

Where are they "easily found at retail"? Only at the largest retailers...Best Buy, Circuit City, Radio Shack, Wal Mart, Crutchfield, J&R Music World, Amazon.com, Apple, JC Penney, Sony Style, Target, and at these regional retailers http://www.hdradio.com/hdradio_retailers.php

In cars from BMW, Hyundai, Ford, Lincoln, Mercedes, Mercury, Mini, Scion, and Volvo.

From brands like Accurian, Audio Design Associates, Boston Acoustics, Cambridge Soundworks, Coby, DaySequerra, Denon, Dice, Directed Electronics, Iluv, Insignia, Integra, Jensen, JVC, Marantz, Niles, Onkyo, Polk, Radiosophy, Rotel, Sangean, Sony, Visteon, Yamaha, Alpine, Axxess, Dice, Dual, Perpetual Electronics, Pioneer, and VO3.

HD is in everything from 100 dollar table systems, to ultra-expensive component systems. I've seen it at dozens of stores. I could buy it from probably 10 places within a half-hour drive of my home, and I live in a tiny rural community. The "you can't find it anywhere" and 'there are no products" arguments made some sense a year ago. You might want to keep up to date!

Anyone can copy-and-paste lists from ibiquity.com or hdradio.com. I'd like to see a list of those "10 places" you cited, because here in my neck of the woods, a top 15 metro area with about a dozen stations running HD on AM and FM, they're as scarce as hens' teeth. Most of the retailers that had them a year ago don't carry them anymore because there's no demand (and yes, I asked the managers, didn't just make an assumption), and the rest that still have them marked them down for clearance. Those same managers, BTW, were alarmed at the rate of returns.

Too bad that Sony tuner you and I were discussing wasn't one of the first HD products. If it had been, they might have had a better shot from the beginning. You never get a second chance to make a first impression.

 

[TheBigA]

The thing that pushed FM over the edge was not the medium itself, it was the content.

As I said to you in another thread, the content that you loved so much was limited to a few dozen stations in a few dozen markets. And it was enjoyed by a very small audience. It was not what propelled FM to the point where top-rated AM stations simply gave up on music.

What actually happened was the FM chip (or whatever) became extremely cheap, and cost next to nothing to install it in any radio. By 1972, practically every radio was AM/FM. For just a couple bucks more than AM only. You could buy an FM car radio converter for $20. Audiovox made them. That's when the explosion in programming began. Once there was an audience. Then, the programming that used to be on AM mirgrated to FM. You had 99X in NY.

So it wasn't content that drove FM. It was availability. No radio station is going to invest any time or money in programming that people can't hear. There is no point in that. And after two or three years, that's where HD Radio is. For HD Radio to succeed, it needs to be cheap and available everywhere. Not as an option, and not for extra money. Someone has to be willing to take a hit on the front end, with the hopes of a payoff down the road. It doesn't look like that's going to happen. And that's all that matters.

 

[OKCRadioGuy]

"...That is why HD is failing, because it is bringing nothing new to the plate." That my friend is the true reason HD won't matter. The cost of radios are a factor, yes. The availabilty and marketing is a factor, yes. The real problem is that HD brings nothing to the table as an alternative to TERRIBLE programming currently being spewed by corporate radio. Instead of turning the extra HD channels over to "the kids" do something creative, the big jerks are coorinating uncreative jukeboxes. I've said it before and I'll say it again. I think the hidden use for HD extra channels will be when corporate radio finally understands the extra channels aren't useful to them and they rent them out. There are PLENTY of churches, ethnic groups, and snake oil peddlers that will pay good money to be heard, even if it requires a funky radio.

 

[TheBigA]

The real problem is that HD brings nothing to the table as an alternative to TERRIBLE programming currently being spewed by corporate radio.

The folks seeking an alternative who are willing to spend extra money for a radio already subscribe to satellite. That group is taken care of. The rest don't care enough to spend what it costs to buy an HD Radio. If it's not free and already available, they don't even know it's there.

Instead of turning the extra HD channels over to "the kids" do something creative, the big jerks are coorinating uncreative jukeboxes.

So you really think people will spend a few hundred dollars to listen to the Amateur Hour? It might be funny for a few minutes, but who would pay for that pain? Listen to college radio. That's bad enough. My experience with "kids" (and I have a lot of it) is that they mimmick what they hear. That's not very creative.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I think the hidden use for HD extra channels will be when corporate radio finally understands the extra channels aren't useful to them and they rent them out. There are PLENTY of churches, ethnic groups, and snake oil peddlers that will pay good money to be heard, even if it requires a funky radio.

So that's great programming that'll get people to buy radios? I don't understand.

Who would pay to be on a radio station no one can hear? You put those people on your under-performing 5K AM. Not HD.

 

[Channel Surf]

(and these salespeople acknowledged) there is little, if any, customer demand...."

I know others have pointed this out, but this was the exact same experience many consumers had in the 50s and early 60s when they sought FM radios.

Quite often, the only place that sold them were Hi Fi stores, where the starting price was $500 for a componant system.

FM radio in a car was also an expensive option.

The programming was awful, and some stations were such a waste that their owners simply gave the licenses away as tax write offs.

There was no customer demand for FM either. None at all. Hmm. How'd that end up?

By the way, early FM Stereo Multiplex was also terrible, with lots of drift and interference. It sucked for a long time. Most people prefered to just listen in mono.

Don't misunderstand this as being an endorsement of HD. Just because I point out the other side doesn't mean I'm a rah rah member of the alliance. I have nothing to do with either side. But I've heard it all before. Several times over.

I remember FM, even in the late 60's the range was pretty bad although not anywhere near as bad as HD.
The thing that pushed FM over the edge was not the medium itself, it was the content. FM radio with underground stations and then album oriented rock completely changed the way people listened to the radio, radio was wide open then on the FM band because as you say they weren't making any money so they didn't care. People didn't care that it was FM at all, they just eventually associated FM with a totally new kind of radio, FM just lucked out basically, a brand new type of radio started out and grew up on FM. AM radio was so entrenched in top 40 then that it couldn't change and seemed really old fashioned over night, all the new bands broke on FM radio for the most part. I remember my own hometown AM station WORC playing The Canned Heat and they had a little jingle they would play that went "Worcestertown Underground" before they played them, the music was so different than all the other stuff they were playing at the time that they had to use a jingle before it to delineate it because compared to the top 40 of the time (Englebird Humperdink for ex.) that this music sounded like it was from outer space. Now this music was normal stuff on FM radio in 1969 and 1970. You could hear Roland Kirk, Led Zeppelin, Frank Zappa and Joan Baez all in the same set. The difference between the content on FM and AM was striking in those days. AM radio all of a sudden seemed so yesterday and it wasn't because of the Amplitude Modulation, it was because of the content, FM was wide open and the jocks played anything they wanted to play, was a very creative period in radio on the FM end. That is what started the big AM slide, it was nothing to do with the sound of AM as so many people try to say it was the attitude, music, creativity and free for all atmosphere of FM radio, was a very fortuitous time for FM.
Which brings me to HD.
What do we have new with HD besides a pretty light and lousy range? Nothing. That is why HD is failing, because it is bringing nothing new to the plate.

Well...I have to agree with you for the most part, and I lived maybe 15 miles north of you in those days too. Worcester had Top 40 AMs WORC and WAAB, we had WEIM, and Boston's Top 40 WRKO-AM put a good daytime signal into central Ma
during the day, but didn't exist after sunset. WORC and WAAB were inaudible in Leominster at night, just as WEIM was inaudible in Worcester, after sunset. But Top 40 105.7-WKOX-FM blasted into Worcester, Boston, Leominster and southern NH, 24/7. (actually I guess that they signed off at 1AM) The fidelity of hearing the same hits on 50,000 watt WKOX-FM,
just blew those 5000 watt AMs away. This was at a time when AM was well engineered and well maintained too. Boston's
WBCN and WHDH-FM were both progressive rock, and threw great signals into central Ma, as well. Boston's other major Top 40 station, WMEX was always inaudible in central Ma for that matter. The programming, fidelity and the coverage of FM did really help to propel its popularity in that era. I understand that FM coverage was perhaps not too good on a number of stations during the 40s and 50s, but by the late 60s, alot of the FM stations had great coverage. By the way...Boston had a great progressive rock station on the AM band too, from 1970-1976. It was WNTN. Unfortunately, it was AM. It was low fidelity, with a challenged daytime only signal. On FM, that station would have exploded. On AM, it only languished. FM radio quickly became the place for young listeners and audiophiles. However, I have yet to see any level of excitement at all with HD.

 

[Mike Walker]

HISTORY CHECK! FM, introduced in the 30s, taking till the 80s to reach market parity with AM, didn't "quickly" become ANY FREAKIN' THINK! I remember in the 70s, forty full years after Major Armstrong introduced the world to frequency modulation, debates about whether the sound quality difference made ANY difference. This idea that radio technology has EVER suddenly exploded completely contradicts history. Ok, there was a big spurt in growth in the 20s, when commercial broadcasting first started. But beyond the public's initial embrace of the CONCEPT of radio, which was (and is) a huge success, every other advance has been EVOLUTIONARY, rather than revolutionary, and taken LOTS of time.

Example? More than four and a half decades after the introduction of FM stereo, we all know that a HUGE percentage of FM listening is on mono radios, and FM talk stations largely don't even bother to turn on the stereo exciter...despite the fact that broadcasters in other countries have proven how much stereo can enhance non-music programming (listen to a sports broadcast on the BBC, or a panel discussion, or a play. It's like being there!)

 

[Mike Walker]

Anybody read the "in search of HD" (I think it was called) article in Radio World a couple of months ago? In Manhattan, they found HD available nearly everywhere they went. Sure, some stores didn't demonstrate it properly. But others did, and to good effect.

And if you'll simply investigate the websites of the companies, and merchants I mentioned, you'll find HD readily available at every single one of them. It's at EVERY Radio Shack in my area (Wilkes County, NC). I've seen it in Hickory, Charlotte, Boone, Morganton, Lenoir, West Jefferson (none of these exactly metropolitan areas!), not to mention Winston-Salem and Charlotte (which are). I've seen it at Circuit City, Wal-Mart, Tweeter, Radio Shack, at a small home-theater installer in Boone, at another in West-Jefferson, not to mention at radio dealers like C Crane and Universal Radio (which I neglected to include in my earlier post, but which have sold HD for some time).

Monitoring Times did a series of articles about HD, found it to work quite well (with some caveats...as if there are none with analog!). The CURRENT issue of Popular Communications features an article on HD antennas. And so it goes. I'm not going to go through the hassle of posting links to all the places HD is available. It's available WHERE I SAID IT IS! Come on, demonstrate (don't just postulate) that I'm wrong. I dare ya'!

 

[Channel Surf]

HISTORY CHECK! FM, introduced in the 30s, taking till the 80s to reach market parity with AM, didn't "quickly" become ANY FREAKIN' THINK! I remember in the 70s, forty full years after Major Armstrong introduced the world to frequency modulation, debates about whether the sound quality difference made ANY difference. This idea that radio technology has EVER suddenly exploded completely contradicts history. Ok, there was a big spurt in growth in the 20s, when commercial broadcasting first started. But beyond the public's initial embrace of the CONCEPT of radio, which was (and is) a huge success, every other advance has been EVOLUTIONARY, rather than revolutionary, and taken LOTS of time.

Example? More than four and a half decades after the introduction of FM stereo, we all know that a HUGE percentage of FM listening is on mono radios, and FM talk stations largely don't even bother to turn on the stereo exciter...despite the fact that broadcasters in other countries have proven how much stereo can enhance non-music programming (listen to a sports broadcast on the BBC, or a panel discussion, or a play. It's like being there!)

OK...Let me clarify my oint. Prior to around 1966/1967, FM programming was either a simulcast of an AM station, elevator music or classical. After FMs were forced to separate from full simulcasts of AM stations, FM began to take off. By late 1966, Boston had its first FM Top 40 station programming for the youth market. That was WRKO-FM. In 1967, WHDH-FM began to rock. WBCN flipped to progressive rock in 1968 and WKOX-FM went Top 40 at the beginning of 1969. Suddenly,
it was worthwhile to listen to FM if you were under 40. By the way, FM listening actually reached equivalence with AM in 1978, and surpassed AM forever, after that.

 

[KB1OKL]

(and these salespeople acknowledged) there is little, if any, customer demand...."

I know others have pointed this out, but this was the exact same experience many consumers had in the 50s and early 60s when they sought FM radios.

Quite often, the only place that sold them were Hi Fi stores, where the starting price was $500 for a componant system.

FM radio in a car was also an expensive option.

The programming was awful, and some stations were such a waste that their owners simply gave the licenses away as tax write offs.

There was no customer demand for FM either. None at all. Hmm. How'd that end up?

By the way, early FM Stereo Multiplex was also terrible, with lots of drift and interference. It sucked for a long time. Most people prefered to just listen in mono.

Don't misunderstand this as being an endorsement of HD. Just because I point out the other side doesn't mean I'm a rah rah member of the alliance. I have nothing to do with either side. But I've heard it all before. Several times over.

I remember FM, even in the late 60's the range was pretty bad although not anywhere near as bad as HD.
The thing that pushed FM over the edge was not the medium itself, it was the content. FM radio with underground stations and then album oriented rock completely changed the way people listened to the radio, radio was wide open then on the FM band because as you say they weren't making any money so they didn't care. People didn't care that it was FM at all, they just eventually associated FM with a totally new kind of radio, FM just lucked out basically, a brand new type of radio started out and grew up on FM. AM radio was so entrenched in top 40 then that it couldn't change and seemed really old fashioned over night, all the new bands broke on FM radio for the most part. I remember my own hometown AM station WORC playing The Canned Heat and they had a little jingle they would play that went "Worcestertown Underground" before they played them, the music was so different than all the other stuff they were playing at the time that they had to use a jingle before it to delineate it because compared to the top 40 of the time (Englebird Humperdink for ex.) that this music sounded like it was from outer space. Now this music was normal stuff on FM radio in 1969 and 1970. You could hear Roland Kirk, Led Zeppelin, Frank Zappa and Joan Baez all in the same set. The difference between the content on FM and AM was striking in those days. AM radio all of a sudden seemed so yesterday and it wasn't because of the Amplitude Modulation, it was because of the content, FM was wide open and the jocks played anything they wanted to play, was a very creative period in radio on the FM end. That is what started the big AM slide, it was nothing to do with the sound of AM as so many people try to say it was the attitude, music, creativity and free for all atmosphere of FM radio, was a very fortuitous time for FM.
Which brings me to HD.
What do we have new with HD besides a pretty light and lousy range? Nothing. That is why HD is failing, because it is bringing nothing new to the plate.

Well...I have to agree with you for the most part, and I lived maybe 15 miles north of you in those days too. Worcester had Top 40 AMs WORC and WAAB, we had WEIM, and Boston's Top 40 WRKO-AM put a good daytime signal into central Ma
during the day, but didn't exist after sunset. WORC and WAAB were inaudible in Leominster at night, just as WEIM was inaudible in Worcester, after sunset. But Top 40 105.7-WKOX-FM blasted into Worcester, Boston, Leominster and southern NH, 24/7. (actually I guess that they signed off at 1AM) The fidelity of hearing the same hits on 50,000 watt WKOX-FM,
just blew those 5000 watt AMs away. This was at a time when AM was well engineered and well maintained too. Boston's
WBCN and WHDH-FM were both progressive rock, and threw great signals into central Ma, as well. Boston's other major Top 40 station, WMEX was always inaudible in central Ma for that matter. The programming, fidelity and the coverage of FM did really help to propel its popularity in that era. I understand that FM coverage was perhaps not too good on a number of stations during the 40s and 50s, but by the late 60s, alot of the FM stations had great coverage. By the way...Boston had a great progressive rock station on the AM band too, from 1970-1976. It was WNTN. Unfortunately, it was AM. It was low fidelity, with a challenged daytime only signal. On FM, that station would have exploded. On AM, it only languished. FM radio quickly became the place for young listeners and audiophiles. However, I have yet to see any level of excitement at all with HD.

Oh yeah, John Gorman, this place's favorite blogger was program director on WNTN for a while, I remember that station, any time I was near Boston it was on in my car, was a great station. WORC was the station I listened to as a kid and I guess living so close to it, it sounded damn good to me on my old RCA 811K console, had a nice wide front end. I still live probably a mile from it's towers. WAAB also had WAAB FM which turned into WAAF FM. Remember the WAAF giraffe? haha!
I had a hard time receiving WBCN during it's first couple of years but it may have been my receiver. I also remember WEIM.

 

[Mike Walker]

By the way TheBigA, the idea that everybody who wants an alternative, "and is willing to pay for it" has satellite radio is just ill-informed. First of all, more people (by a huge margin) listen to public radio than subscribe to satellite (NPR alone has 20 million listeners, and there are plenty of non-NPR public stations). Millions of listeners to public radio have "paid for it", and continue to.

Second, you always have to pay for a new radio (or any other device). We don't give the things away. But other than the initial cost, where does the "pay for it" come from? Terrestrial radio, be it analog or digital, is FREE (unless you WANT to send a check to the broadcaster...AND I DO...to local NPR affiliates). And the issue of "expensive new receivers that nobody will pay for" disappears in an age of under-100 dollar (sometimes WAY under) digital radios, and digital radios incorporated into things that people buy already...like shelf systems (complete with mp3 and dvd playback), car stereos, and home theater receivers. MANY people have purchased HD radios without even knowing it. And THAT is how HD (or any broadcast technology) expands.

I've NEVER heard anyone other than an electronics geek say "I want a digital tv". I've heard LOTS of them say "I want a FLAT PANEL tv". But as the old Prego commercial says, "It's in there!" That's what matters.

I wonder what percentage of people would answer yes to the question "are you familiar with Zenith-system multiplex decoding"? Probably fewer than 24 percent. Think that means there are no fm stereo radios in use?

 

[pocket-radio]

(and these salespeople acknowledged) there is little, if any, customer demand...."

Quite often, the only place that sold them were Hi Fi stores, where the starting price was $500 for a componant system.

FM radio in a car was also an expensive option.

The programming was awful, and some stations were such a waste that their owners simply gave the licenses away as tax write offs.

There was no customer demand for FM either. None at all. Hmm. How'd that end up?

By the way, early FM Stereo Multiplex was also terrible, with lots of drift and interference. It sucked for a long time. Most people prefered to just listen in mono.

Don't misunderstand this as being an endorsement of HD. Just because I point out the other side doesn't mean I'm a rah rah member of the alliance. I have nothing to do with either side. But I've heard it all before. Several times over.

YOU SEEM TO MISS THE POINT, as many radio people do.

First for many people AM/FM radio as we know it serves their purpose for a half-hour or so drive to and from work. Besides the radio industry, nobody was asking for HD.
You can rush out and buy a new HD radio or listen to AM/FM and pretty much hear the same content. Broadcast groups are not inventing anything new and HD mirrors what we already have.

And for people totally disenfranchised by over commercials, meaningless sweepers, boring radio they now have many choices for music/information. Including, sat radio, ipod, cd's cell phones, and now wifi and wimax are among the newest tools people can choose from.

You forget when FM was invented and finally took off, consumer choices were limited to
45's, albums & tape. FM stereo was like the Iphone today and kids loved it.

Like Beta Max & VHS they'll be more new and exciting devices that will out perform the older devices.

HD has done a horrible marketing job and with the technology. As we've seen if Americans want something new, we rush out to the store and charge it. For example just look at the new Iphone. Steve jobs built a great device that people are interested in! Built it and they will come worked!

Besides a few radio geeks average people see no need or have no interest in HD radio.

Built it and they will come hasn't worked for HD radio. They hype hasn't lived up to expectations and that's typical for radio.

HD radio simply doesn't have time to evolve like FM did, because we live in a error where new technology is being rushed to the market daily. .

Once internet access is standard in all cars and cheap wirless access is everyplace. The debate will be over.
The next 3 to 10 years will be interesting. Don't buy any radio stocks..

 

[KB1OKL]

Example? More than four and a half decades after the introduction of FM stereo, we all know that a HUGE percentage of FM listening is on mono radios, and FM talk stations largely don't even bother to turn on the stereo exciter...despite the fact that broadcasters in other countries have proven how much stereo can enhance non-music programming (listen to a sports broadcast on the BBC, or a panel discussion, or a play. It's like being there!)

That is the fault of the broadcasters and is nothing to do with whether they are broadcasting IBOC or not which leads to the fact that radio definitely doesn't need HD to broadcast stereo. One other thing is that the BBC and others don't over modulate and compress the hell out of the signal, broadcast in high fidelity and actually have dynamics in their signal.
I have received BBC AM stations over here on occasion and the sound of them is better than most of our FM's, and I'm talking voice not music.

 

[TheBigA]

One other thing is that the BBC and others don't over modulate and compress the hell out of the signal, broadcast in high fidelity and actually have dynamics in their signal.

The BBC is also non-commercial, and has a whole less competition on the radio dial.