SOund card - Role in Editing

[joshzz]

We use two computers for saving songs as files on our automation system. Our intent is that they sound as close to the original file as possible. Music is obtained through PlayMpe, DMDS and CD. One computer uses a Echo Mia Midi sound card and the other is a turtle beach. For on-air broadcast playback on the automation system/stream we use another computer which contains a Digigram VX-222 card.

My question is, could the sound quality of the songs be adversely altered by the Echo Mia Midi/Turtle Beach Sound Cards ? Bascially we use Adobe Audition to Normalize all songs to -4.437 decibels and then cut out the excess in the front and back of song.

 

[OttoM]

If you're playing the audio through a board then recording it through the sound card analog inputs, yes.

If you're getting direct digital transfers from your source, no.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

I haven't taken my board out to prove this, but I think you could rip CDs and receive digital files via the Internet and do what you are doing with NO soundcard in your machine. Trimming the ends off would of course be a bit of guesswork however.

I do have a question. -4.437 db? Is that an industry standard? It translates to 60% so I can see that is a "round number" that might explain why that is your chosen level. What went into your decision to use this as your standard recording level?

Do you put voice-over material, PSAs and other content at the same level?

I edit some content for use on the Internet.... can you say PODCAST? I tend to assemble the content by adjusting each component to have matching "average RMS" values and then equalize the whole segment up to a given maximum level. (I use one higher than -4.437 db so I guess I am looking for a reason to rethink what level I want to use.)

 

[OttoM]

I haven't taken my board out to prove this, but I think you could rip CDs and receive digital files via the Internet and do what you are doing with NO soundcard in your machine. Trimming the ends off would of course be a bit of guesswork however.

You're absolutely correct - and older versions of Cool Edit Pro will even load and draw waveforms without a sound card present, so you could even trim off the ends and normalize without a sound card.

An easy way to test that? Disable your sound card in Device Manager. You don't have to physically remove the board from your computer.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

When I first began scouting the Internet for information on digital sound, there was some really interesting folklore being spread by the "resident experts". It was somewhere in the mid-1990s. I had left radio a number of years earlier and my replacement career came unglued. First I was retailing computers for Best Buy and then moved to the selling of computers to corporate America.

Guys on the Internet were saying that if you ripped a CD three times, you would actually get three different sets of data.... ripping was a crude, unpredictable activity. I'm thinking: if I save a file of payroll file to a CD and then retrieved the file from the CD... would everyone get a mutilated paycheck? I couldn't buy that!

The second "folklore" was that you absolutely MUST limit the number of times that you adjusted the level (normalized) or that you must limit the number of times you run a procedure that does equalization. The rationale was that the rounding of fractional or decimal bits caused great amounts of distortion of sound. I guess this what the term "dithering" is all about. Some expert may jump into our conversation here and tell me how far off base I am, but I tend to same all my files that are going to be edited and adjusted at 32-bit level. That way all these bent fractional amounts and dithering are affecting the bits at the far end so that when I finish and save it back to a 16-bit file, there should be little or no dithering residue left behind.

I once took a short audio file, saved it as an ASCII file. Wrote a routine that generated small random numbers which I used to manipulate the values in the audio file. When I played it back, the "distortion" was not audible to me. Some of the things we do as manipulators of digitized sound may be less destructive than some of the folklore would tell us.

 

[joshzz]

HI Everyone,

Thanks for your advice! Glad to hear what we're doing is ok and I'm not in trouble at all.

As far as why we use 60%- We started that at the beginning- I'm no expert in this and don't even know if it's the best thing to do- I called different radio stations prior to flipping the on switch on our station and asked what production people were doing with music and voice. If I would have called other stations I may have received different information but this was the general consensus of what some stations were doing at the time. - No one we spoke to ran the songs at the initial CD levels. (everyone I spoke to had a built stereo limiter but still altered the song levels.)

Merry Christmas! josh

 

[gtomas]

If you're downloading or ripping CDs, soundcard doesn't matter... Only if you are ingesting music as analog audio.

If you are doing simple editing, the soundcard quality doesn't matter much either. It's only used to preview/listen to simple edits, such as cuts, fade ins/outs, etc. However, if you are doing demanding audio work, such as production, mastering, etc, you sure need a high quality audio card (and a monitoring system).

Where you definitely need a high-quality sound card is for your playout PC.

In regards to normalization (or any gain change, for that matter) affecting sound quality, this no longer such an issue as it was in the beginning of digital era, when editors used limited bit depth and fixed point calculations. In those cases, any gain change or any manipulation of the audio signal, results in rounding errors which translates into increased noise floor and loss of resolution. As digital technology evolved, digital processing started using higher bitrates (at least internally) to reduce accumulating errors becoming audible.

Today's DAW software, as far as I know, all use floating point processing which makes these problems practically non-existing.


Regards,
Goran Tomas

 

[Sgeirk]

A friend of mine who works in a large cluster of radio stations began noticing that a lot of audio that was dubbed into their automation system from a soundblaster soundcard was ending up out of phase by varying amounts at various frequency levels. Replaced the card, no more problems.

Be wary of using consumer cards for broadcast purposes.

 

[AndyWaldrop]

Well...since we're on the subject...What is a good (or real good) sound card for me to use on my computer at home? I have a rather extensive collection of vinyl, and...when time permits, I like to transfer some of that stuff to digital. Yes, some of that music, once digitized, will be played on the air. I consider myself an audiophile but I can't see spending $2000 on a pre-amp or $1000 on a cartridge. The only software I'm using is Sound Forge.

Any suggestions for a pre-amp and a cartridge? I'm using a Technics SL1200MKII turntable.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

Any suggestions for a pre-amp and a cartridge? I'm using a Technics SL1200MKII turntable.

Since you already have a turntable that you are happy with, I can see matching up a good preamp with the cartridge that works well with that preamp would be your goal.

I have not used one of the new turntables that comes from the factory already equipped with a built-in USB device that does the conversion. One of these units will bypass the current sound card in your computer. This may be the best route for people who do not already own a decent turntable, and who do not have something other than the original built-in sound card that came with the computer.

 

[Sgeirk]

I like to use a turntable plugged into my Denon amp, then feeding the line output of my old Denon receiver...the line out feeds a Roland R-09, portable audio recorder. For me, it's a painless and less obtrusive way of copying vinyl. (I don't have my turntable "out.") I then, remove the SD card and copy the files to a computer for editing and treatment.

The Roland is a little noisy, and I've also been partial to Stanton 680 cartridges, but I'm an old radio guy...I care about quality, but I'm not an audiophile.

If I was going to suggest a soundcard, I like the EMU0404 or 0202's for a lower price point...they'll get you there and sound halfway decent and not break the bank.