Sound processing unit upgrade

[Achilleas]

Hello guys...i want your opinion for sound processing, we run the Dspxtra now but we are thinking to change it..what will you suggest? should we try the Vorsis?(ap2000?) or go orban or something else? we dont like omnia.. i know that you will say listen and then buy..but i want some of your knowledge for the best move...

thank's in advance!
Achilleas

 

[RealityCheckr]

I always helps to have a goal.

Assuming your goal is something other than "to spend money", tell us more...

what do you like about your current processor?

What do you dislike about your current processor?

What is your immediate goal -

--To be Louder
--To be Cleaner/Clearer/more transparent
--To be better on Voice
--etc etc.

What is your format?

What is your budget?

etc etc

These questions will not only help other to make recommendations, but will also help them to tell you what presets your should start out when you are ready to test units.

Good luck

 

[Achilleas]

For sure i dont want to just spend money..i want something more for our station.. dspxtra is a very good unit for the money that sells ( nice stereo in general but little confused sometimes...great job the ariane!!! too much distortion sometimes but it's cool on some songs..something goes wrong with the upper and lower sides of the sound ..they does not exist )....but we want something more...we want cleaner sound not louder...(dspxtra can play really loud) our format is AC , i was thinking for orban 8500 but i think that orban units are not the units that will help you find the sound you like...vorsis is a little more open to that...( imean that can play like an orban or omnia or something else, maybe i am wrong)

i'm searching what to do...

p.s....sorry for my english if somewhere is not right..

 

[TimmyWA]

For a small amount of cash (relatively), you can get a software DSP based processor called Breakaway. go to http://claessonedwards.com and poke through the site and their forums. They've also been discussed here.

Excellent processing. Very clean. Hard to imagine a cheap piece of software can compete with a multi-thousand dollar box!

 

[Achilleas]

i have use the breakway but i dont think that you can compare it with a hardware like orban,omnia or something..the truth is that dspxtra plays better... there are other software too that are for fm processing..i think that the man who create idt processsors has his own software (i dont remember how he call it)...

you think that it will be wrong to buy a hardware..?
should i look for software??
i feel that no software can be better sounding from a hardware..(software has more delay too)
technologicaly which processor is leading now?

 

[cgould]

The best thing to do is to define what your goals are ahead of time, and
then get processors sent in to you for evionaluat and see which one comes
closest to your goal.

Once you get that far, the tech. support department of the processor that wins
this initial step should be able to get you to where you want to be.

Asking questions on a list will just be confusing as everyone will impose their
personal bias' as to what sounds good on you, and you may or may not like the
result.

-C

 

[The F Mister]

And try to take some time to test them. It would be a shame if you would go for the one that you like after a few hours while struggling with others. When you really spend some time and get to know them they might be better in the end than the one you started out with and was fairly happy with.

 

[littlejohn]

A friend always claimed you needed at least a week to properly set a proessor at a minimum; and it would need a month of touchup thereafter as your station went through the lbrary. His audio was always the best I've heard on - air. I suspect he ws correct.

 

[Achilleas]

Yes...the best is to try....i know that..but i ask you here for your advice because i dont know many things about the units..
does the vorsis worth the money that costs or with the dsp extreme it will be better with less money?? the extreme from the dspxtra has very diferent sound?

 

[cgould]

The best processor for the money is the one that can get you where you want to go sound-wise.

This is why it is important to test processors first. Different people have different goals, so as a
result, there are different processors with different design philosophies.

It would be a HUGE waste of money to buy ANY processor that performs less than ideally for your
market / format. If there was ONE processor that was universally considered the best, then there
would be no room for any other, and everyone will be out of business except for the company with the
ultimate processor.

If you want anyone to be of help, you have to do what RealityCheckr mentioned, and let everyone know
what your goals & expectations are.

This is no different than automobile shopping. There is a car for every need & taste. The best car for the money
is the one that meets your purposes & expectations. If you buy purely on the opinions of car enthusiasts, you may
end up with a two seater that performs great -- but you can't drive your family of 4 around in it. Either that
or it would be totally impractical as a get from point "a" to point "b" car....

Get where we are going here?

-C

 

[Achilleas]

Nice,our goal is to sound better than now... from the moment that we play wiith a dspxtra now if we play with....let's say, tiesseci(?) it will not be better..from that optical view i ask what are the suggested (better) processors from the one that we have.i said in previous posts that our format is AC 70% music and 30% talk..we want to find warmer sound with more clarity and less distortion than now..we like big bass sound with warm mids and clean highs Iin the war of loudness,even to our place,we must be close to the others but loudness is not the main target...i think that on this the dspxtra goes well..i will not say the same for quality..

I say again that the most logical to do is to try one by one the units...but this is a little difficult...our dealers in greece will not give the unit to test it..also if they do..we have the processor on transmitter site so the tweak wont be easy because our digital link isn't two way and we will not be able to remote use of the unit. that's bad because we like to give our flavour to the sound and not be stucked on a preset that every same unit will have..For the moment the only "test" is to listening other radios and i have find that i like the bas and warm sound of orban 8500..i dont like alot the too much hi's of omia 6 but it is clean.. i heard vorsis 2000 and i think that is cleaner even from omnia and has oportunities..i dont have heard dsp xtreme (big brother of xtra) so i cant have opinion..

I hope to helped you to help me
Friendly...Achilleas

 

[RealityCheckr]

Hi Achilleas,

I think it would be useful for you to read up on processing. You might look on C. Gould's site for the articles he has written (I think it is Cgould.com). You might also look at the white papers on the Omnia and Orban sites.

I loudness is not a major concern you should be able to get good quality from most processors.

I know having the Processor at the TX site is a limitation, but you need the ability to tweak, particularly since you don't want to use a preset. What you need to do is look at the presets and pick the one that is the closest to what you want and adjust from there. Have a listen to presets for Country, Classical, and Jazz.

Even if it is only a portable receiver and headphones, you need some way to monitor what you are doing. And you will need to spend some time on this. I would strongly suggest you use your existing processor to learn more, before you change to another. This will help you learn more about what you like and dislike. Who knows, there is a decent chance your existing processor can get pretty close to what you want.

You will find that if you back down on the clippers you can remove a lot of distortion as long as you don't mind losing some loudness.

It is interesting to note that you don't like the Omnias because they have to much highs. Due to the pre-emphasis curve (if you don't know what this is you need to do some reading as I suggested) it is very hard to get clean highs without scratchy sounding distortion. The reason you hear this on stations with Omnias is that they are better at this than most (if not all) other processors. If you don't desire that much high end you can always turn it down.

Regarding demos. Once you narrow down the units to be demoed, if your dealer refuses a demo call (don't email) the manufacturer and explain that your local dealer(s) is(are) not cooperating with you. You may need to ask to speak to a manager but they should be able to help you on this. Processors are not the same as a lot of other equipment in this regards.

Best of luck!

 

[cgould]

..i dont like alot the too much hi's of omia 6 but it is clean..

That's easy to fix. Just turn the highs down.

Don't judge how a processor operates by someone else's adjustments.

That's like judging the performance of an automobile by the way a drunk driver (or a bad driver) drives it....

-C

 

[PaulyBoy]

e..For the moment the only "test" is to listening other radios and i have find that i like the bas and warm sound of orban 8500..i dont like alot the too much hi's of omia 6 but it is clean.. i heard vorsis 2000 and i think that is cleaner even from omnia and has oportunities..i dont have heard dsp xtreme (big brother of xtra) so i cant have opinion..

I hope to helped you to help me
Friendly...Achilleas

Interesting, the guy who wrote the review on the Vorsis website about one of their processor's, now uses an Omnia!

 

[OttoM]

Just an opinion from one who read this thread for the first time...

There's been a LOT of EXCELLENT advice offered to "Achilleas" but based on the replies from the OP that guidance is either being ignored or misunderstood.

Thus the question: Is the OP REALLY looking for advice on upgrading a processor or trying to find a way to justify an already-made buying decision?

Cornelius Gould put it perfectly with his two automobile analogies. I'd suggest "Achilleas" re-read those posts and go from there.

 

[TomT]

Well..I must admit to a Cleveland (Ohio) bias since I grew up there (Lakewood). (Omnia is made in Cleveland). I recently installed an Omnia One on a classical/jazz station, and, for the price (Under $3K. in the US) I would certainly recommend it for those who are "budget challenged" (aren't we all, nowadays!).

On the other hand,a local AC (well, mostly 80's) station has an Omnia 6, and it sounds reeeal good!! Of course, an Omnia 6 costs as much as a new car. If you have about $8,500 Euro to spare I would get one.

 

[wgliradio]

Interesting, the guy who wrote the review on the Vorsis website about one of their processor's, now uses an Omnia!

Only after some coercion and well placed posts... but lets not talk about that. I do know of some processor changes in a certain market because of two failures of boxes in less than a month.

 

[SUPERCASTER]

Hi Achilleas.

Every modern digital processor (hardware or software) is implemented as software inside a form of a computer.

I think you will be very pleased if you try the free download of Breakaway Broadcast Processor. It's the latest and greatest, gets rave reviews, has a low latency ASIO version, very low distortion, great density, and you can try it for free!

What do you have to lose?

Link:
http://www.claessonedwards.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=47&Itemid=55

Remote control Breakaway settings from almost any computer with an internet connection and PC to PC access software.

Use a "duel core" or "quad core" computer and a good sound card. Good does not necessarily mean very expensive. A Sound Blaster Audigy works fine.

Try it, you'll like it! Unless you wish to spend much more and get less.

 

[gtomas]

What do you mean your dealer can't give you a demo unit?? I hope you're not thinking about cashing out money for a small car without having a chance to try the product out and making sure you're making the right choice. That would be unprofessional. The dealer may need some kind of reassurance that damage won't be done to the unit, or if it happens that he can charge you for it, but otherwise it's in his best interest to give you a demo. If he still doesn't want to, talk directly to the manufacturer.

As for putting the unit on the air, you don't necessarily have to do that. If you have an unused transmitter or exciter you can feed it into a dummy load and so transmit a very low power FM signal to listen in-house on receiver(s). You can even compare that with your on-air signal, though in comparison keep in mind that transmitting chains are not exactly the same. The dealer may arrange that for you. Put it all in the flight case. That's what I did for some customers.

I would advise against making any purchasing decision based on subjective and individual opinions on forums. Those can be very misleading. Not to mention how the input you get will greatly vary on who is present on the forum, what their preferences are, what their experience is with different products or in the field in general, what brand they might be cheerleading for and just plain statistics and probability. Lets hypothesize there are 90% of people buying product A and 10% buying product B. You go on the forum and let's assume it just so happens that there are only people who like product B there. You get rave reviews for product B, you think those 6, 8 or 10 people can't be all wrong, you feel confident that the product B is the right one. But is it? Did you get an objective picture of the whole market? You didn't. The number of opinions (which are, again, subjective) you may get is way too low for any relevance, not to mention certainty. That's why when you do polls, you have to do it on statically relevant sample, otherwise it's false. This is a bad poll...


Regards,
Goran Tomas

 

[FFoti1]

Only after some coercion and well placed posts... but lets not talk about that. I do know of some processor changes in a certain market because of two failures of boxes in less than a month.

No coercion Mike. Whit contacted me directly, explained his displeasure with the other product, and wondered if he could demo Omnia.One again. That's the story...nothing more. You can ask Whit yourself to verify.

-Frank Foti