Sound quality XM Radio Vs. HDFM

[Mike Walker]

When researching the technology, it was a no-brainer to also create a digital-only mode. And of course it WOULD allow a higher data rate. But it wouldn't free ANY frequencies. Talk about a "solution' in search of a problem! Since the digital and analog transmissions are separate, sometimes even done with separate transmitters and antennas IN SEPARATE LOCATIONS(!), then of course you can "do digital" without analog. You can also do Corn Flakes without milk, but, or sex without someone of the opposite sex. But unless you're a midwestern Senator, why would you?

 

[Chuck]

Most Americans live in urban/suburban locations where external antennas are not needed. Simply straightening out the "t" dipole antenna, taking it to the wall, or the back of the equipment rack, rather than letting it curl up in the floor, is usually all that's required. If you can get clean, noise-free, "unblended" analog fm stereo, you can get HD.

I don't live in an urban environment. I can tell you that I get decent stereo analog reception on a HDT-1 tuner with a folded dipole hanging behind the radio. I can't get any HD with the same set up, even though the analog signals of the HD stations come in fine. HD only works when I connect it up to my outdoor TV antenna and switch off the FM trap on the antenna distribution amplifier. Unfortunately turning the FM trap off makes a noticeable degradation in my analog TV pictures, so I'd rather have decent TV than two HD radio channels which offer nothing new.

As for nobody putting up outdoor antennas, talk to a custom installer. There's been a surge of outdoor antenna installations for the last several years, for over-the-air digital television. The guy who put up my antenna a few months ago says he has more business than he can handle. Videophiles who care about getting the best quality, and rural residents who can't get DTV with a simpler setup are keeping him "hopping". That same antenna can feed all the tvs, and radios in the home. My antenna is connected to my HDTV in the living room, my media center PC, my Accurian HD Radio, ATSC dvd recorder, and in the bedroom the FM tuner, tv, and ntsc dvd recorder in there. Hey, if you're gonna' put the damn thing up, GET YOUR MONEY'S WORTH!

You are right; TV antennas are back in vogue. Still you’d be amazed at how many people have spent thousands on a new HDTV and have it connected up to cable or satellite that is only delivering a NTSC picture. I can't figure out why they'd do that, and I'm sure you can't either. Still they do it. It's probably for the same reason a lot of urban dwellers never install the included folded dipole on their FM Tuners. Even if they do, they usually wad the thing up in a ball, so it "won't be in the way." The fact that they can only get five or six stations doesn't seem to bother them.

How many times have you gone into a retail store and noticed that the stereo receivers on display either have no antenna installed, or they have the AM loop antenna connected to the FM antenna terminals? And those guys are supposed to know what the are doing.

Sure the videophiles and the audiophiles will go to great lengths to improve reception. That is their passion. Considering how few people are left who install antennas for a living that I'm sure the are very busy. There is probably a waiting list, if you can even find one. In fact, I just looked in the Longview-Marshall, Texas Yellow Pages under "Antennas." There is one installer listed for an area that is at least 150,000 people. I'll bet he is busy.

The folks who go these lengths are the exception though. Your average consumer doesn't know or care.

 

[Mike Walker]

Lots of "average consumers" use satellite tv, and satellite radio...both of which can be quite finnicky about antennas! And "average consumers" spend more time with their local radio stations than either satellite radio, OR satellite tv. So it seems a "no-brainer" that they'd spend 30 dollars on a good indoor antenna, or in rural areas a little more on an outdoor antenna to get noise-free reception, and extra programming options (lots of 'em in some cases) with no monthly fee!

I've also had bad results with wire dipoles, but MUCH better results with "wabbit ears", and the Magnum Dynalab SR100. Honestly, they don't pay me to plug this damn thing. I don't even use mine anymore, as I've put up an outdoor antenna. I plug it because it works FAR better than it has any right to. And it's cheap as dirt!

 

[Radioman100]

Lots of "average consumers" use satellite tv, and satellite radio...both of which can be quite finnicky about antennas! And "average consumers" spend more time with their local radio stations than either satellite radio, OR satellite tv. So it seems a "no-brainer" that they'd spend 30 dollars on a good indoor antenna, or in rural areas a little more on an outdoor antenna to get noise-free reception, and extra programming options (lots of 'em in some cases) with no monthly fee!

I've also had bad results with wire dipoles, but MUCH better results with "wabbit ears", and the Magnum Dynalab SR100. Honestly, they don't pay me to plug this damn thing. I don't even use mine anymore, as I've put up an outdoor antenna. I plug it because it works FAR better than it has any right to. And it's cheap as dirt!

The best results I've had were not with dipoles at all, but with single lead antennas. Simple lengths of wire with an F connector on the end.

My new Radiosophy HD101's included single element telescoping antenna works very well too.

Using very simple antennas, there isn't a local FM HD station in the market that I can't pick up from my home or office. A couple of the rimshots are problematic, but their analog is too.

 

[Chuck]

Lots of "average consumers" use satellite tv, and satellite radio...both of which can be quite finnicky about antennas!

Yes, but they don't have to personally screw with it. If you have problems with your DISH or DierecTV system, You just pick up the phone and dial their “800” number. After enduring a couple of hours on "perma-hold" they will eventually send a technician to figure out what is wrong. It is not self-service. If your XM doesn't work under a bridge, they will tell you "it's normal." If it doesn’t work as you are driving in open spaces, your car dealer gets to figure out what is wrong. Once again, it is not self-service.

For HD Radio reception problems, you are pretty much on your own, unless you choose to spend money on having an antenna installer deal with the problem. For most people, HD is self-service, and I doubt very many care enough to bother. Certainly, you can get it to working most instances, but whether most people will go to the trouble is still a good question. Given most folks past habits with other technology issues, I'd say they couldn't be bothered.

 

[SUPERCASTER]

FM HD radio also plans to drop all analog mono and stereo transmissions.

Please post your proof of this statement. Now. OTOH, never mind. You can't, because there are no such plans.

Yes, Ibiquity has plans to eventually drop analog AM and FM transmission.

INTRODUCTION
iBiquity’s FM IBOC solution affords
broadcasters the ability to tailor their digital
audio broadcasts to meet their own specific
needs. During the transition period to digital,
each station will have the opportunity to convert
at its own pace – beginning with a hybrid
analog/digital waveform, and eventually turning
off the analog and broadcasting an all digital
signal.

From:
http://www.ibiquity.com/i/pdfs/Waveforms_FM.pdf
As I said:

FM HD radio also plans to drop all analog mono and stereo transmissions.

My original statement is exactly correct. Your assumptions, innuendos, allegations and interpretation of my statement are not.

iBiquity owns the rights to their HD Radio system as well as the trademark, and has often stated their plans and firm commitment to a transition to full digital, dropping analog entirely, just as I said. iBiquity's statements about transitioning to full digital are also included in the Federal Register.

 

[LinoNYC]

In a typically misleading statement, Ol' Sup said:

Yes, Ibiquity has plans to eventually drop analog AM and FM transmission.

Laughable. Radio stations decide what to do with or about this technology. They can implement it, turn it off or ignore it.

The remarks I have read from even the most adamant proponents of this system don't forsee any chance of getting permission for individual stations to go all-digital for atleast a decade, most seem to say 20-30 years before widespread abandonment of analog occurs.

I do believe that it will be struggling AM's that push for all-digital permission since the wider bandwidth would give them more sonic parity with FM, and to be blunt, they don't have much to lose.

Lino

 

[SUPERCASTER]

In a typically misleading statement, Ol' Sup said:

Yes, Ibiquity has plans to eventually drop analog AM and FM transmission.

Laughable. Radio stations decide what to do with or about this technology. They can implement it, turn it off or ignore it.

The remarks I have read from even the most adamant proponents of this system don't forsee any chance of getting permission for individual stations to go all-digital for atleast a decade, most seem to say 20-30 years before widespread abandonment of analog occurs.

I do believe that it will be struggling AM's that push for all-digital permission since the wider bandwidth would give them more sonic parity with FM, and to be blunt, they don't have much to lose.

Lino

So you admit my statement was exactly correct as posted, but that your misinterpretation of it is misleading.
Once again, no surprise that your misinterpretations are misleading you.

 

[LinoNYC]

So you admit my statement was exactly correct as posted, but that your misinterpretation of it is misleading.
Once again, no surprise that your misinterpretations are misleading you.

As the Beats used to say "man, you are a gas"....mostly methane.

Lino

 

[Mike Walker]

Ibiquity may well have 'plans to drop analog am and fm'. My dog has plans to fly! Ibiquity owns no radio stations, and isn't a regulatory agency. And my dog doesn't have wings!

 

[SUPERCASTER]

Ibiquity may well have 'plans to drop analog am and fm'. My dog has plans to fly! Ibiquity owns no radio stations, and isn't a regulatory agency. And my dog doesn't have wings!

iBiquity Rules!
Station and group owners just line up with checks and signed contracts (on iBiquity's terms) in hand, begging to be taken next.
It's clear who is in charge.

 

[Mike Walker]

Yeah, the guys who provide the equipment in the transmitter room run the station(s). That's how it works. That's how it's ALWAYS work.

"Hell is this Broadcast Electronics? Great. I was wondering if I should add the new Eagles record..."

 

[dumber than a box of hair]

My original statement is exactly correct. Your assumptions, innuendos, allegations and interpretation of my statement are not.

iBiquity owns the rights to their HD Radio system as well as the trademark, and has often stated their plans and firm commitment to a transition to full digital, dropping analog entirely, just as I said. iBiquity's statements about transitioning to full digital are also included in the Federal Register.

Since iBiquity doesn't make that decision, your original statement is still INcorrect. And as for iBiquity's non-plan being posted in the FR, let's see the cite.

 

[clouseau]

Ibiquity may well have 'plans to drop analog am and fm'. My dog has plans to fly! Ibiquity owns no radio stations, and isn't a regulatory agency. And my dog doesn't have wings!

iBiquity Rules!
Station and group owners just line up with checks and signed contracts (on iBiquity's terms) in hand, begging to be taken next.
It's clear who is in charge.

There's a lot clear from your line of reasoning. I don't think Ibiquity has anything to do with it.

I'm beginning to think the HD rollout should be stopped. Clearly all that extra RF is having an effect on the reasoning ability of some people.

Clouseau

 

[calstymes]

clouseau intoned:

I'm beginning to think the HD rollout should be stopped.

I just knew you'd eventually come over to the correct side of this issue!