Southside of Indianapolis

[xxdnjxx]

While driving in my car i can pick up 100.5 Gen-X radio and 98.9 Kiss FM, and I'm on the southside of Indianapolis, these stations come in more clear than some stations in Indianapolis itself, for example we have a Hot 96.3 I can barely pick it up on the southside. Does anyone know why I can get these stations?

 

[William_Yeager]

100.5 Gen-X Radio's only co-channel competition is in Kokomo, and depending on your exact location, that's not much closer to you than Louisville.

98.9 Kiss FM recently moved to the same tower as 100.5 to improve its coverage in Louisville, but it really has a clear path to Indy-the only threats are 98.7 WQME in Anderson and 99.5 in Greenfield, but depending on the interference patterns, those might not infringe on Kiss FM that much south of Indianapolis.

I imagine 96.3's issue is probably the natural consequence of the downtown skyscrapers encountering a 3300 watt signal positioned less than 300 feet above average terrain. 105.9 WAY-FM in Louisville encounters the same issue with Downtown Louisville, but sometimes makes it as far east as Georgetown (KY).

Not unusual for an FM radio signal to go 100 miles or more in clear weather without any co-channel interference-I've been able to receive to a station from Huntsville, Alabama in Kentucky, and I can get 104.5 from Indianapolis in southeastern Louisville when it isn't fighting 104.5 from Nashville or Lexington. I regularly catch 105.9 from Nashville and 105.9 from Middletown, Ohio when on the road just east of Louisville.

 

[greg.hahn]

While everything William has said is probably true, you can't pick up those stations in Indy on any kind of regular basis. What's going on is a phenomenon called "ducting", where VHF radio starts skipping around all over the place.

Last week the Dayton, Ohio FMs were booming in to Louisville causing all sorts of disruption on our local channels.

Here is a link That shows the level of this activity. According to it, I'm betting you aren't receiving any Louisville stations in Indianapolis today.

 

[Apollo7979]

I imagine 96.3's issue is probably the natural consequence of the downtown skyscrapers encountering a 3300 watt signal positioned less than 300 feet above average terrain.

Another reason why WHHH can't be clearly received south of Indy is due to WJAA in Austin. Even though WJAA is a 3,000 watt signal with a tower south of Seymour, it really gets out to the North. For me, it starts interfering badly with WHHH at the Johnson-Shelby County line on I-65...an area where, theoretically, WHHH should still be the dominant signal.

 

[BobOnTheJob]

I imagine 96.3's issue is probably the natural consequence of the downtown skyscrapers encountering a 3300 watt signal positioned less than 300 feet above average terrain.

Another reason why WHHH can't be clearly received south of Indy is due to WJAA in Austin. Even though WJAA is a 3,000 watt signal with a tower south of Seymour, it really gets out to the North. For me, it starts interfering badly with WHHH at the Johnson-Shelby County line on I-65...an area where, theoretically, WHHH should still be the dominant signal.

Terrain from WJAA (and nearby WXKU 92.7) is quite favorable to the north. Fairly low ground with a decently tall tower and the ground to the north gently sloping upwards is good combination as the receiver is gaining elevation as the distance increases and there are no high spots to block the signal. WHHH sits in a bowl & the first thing it hits 10-11 miles south is a good sized hill around the Greenwood exit. If I recall correctly, the antenna bays for WHHH are on the north side of their tower, which will naturally cast a shadow to the south. The ethnic demographics make this a no-brainer for WHHH. WJAA's bays are pointed north & as a result, their signal dies a quick death just 25 miles or so south. Based on all of this and the fact that the Johnson/Shelby County Line is within a few miles of being equi-distant from both signals, I'd have to disagree that WHHH could be expected to dominate. Even when WHHH was on top of the Bank One building, the results were similar to the south.

 

[Apollo7979]

Terrain from WJAA (and nearby WXKU 92.7) is quite favorable to the north. Fairly low ground with a decently tall tower and the ground to the north gently sloping upwards is good combination as the receiver is gaining elevation as the distance increases and there are no high spots to block the signal. WHHH sits in a bowl & the first thing it hits 10-11 miles south is a good sized hill around the Greenwood exit. If I recall correctly, the antenna bays for WHHH are on the north side of their tower, which will naturally cast a shadow to the south. The ethnic demographics make this a no-brainer for WHHH. WJAA's bays are pointed north & as a result, their signal dies a quick death just 25 miles or so south. Based on all of this and the fact that the Johnson/Shelby County Line is within a few miles of being equi-distant from both signals, I'd have to disagree that WHHH could be expected to dominate. Even when WHHH was on top of the Bank One building, the results were similar to the south.

Bob, you're right about the terrain. I didn't take that or the direction of WHHH's antenna bays under consideration when I posted. This does explain why I can get WHHH to some degree all the way up I-65 to the Frankfort exit before WAZY in Lafayette blasts them off the dial and why WJAA disappears pretty quickly going southbound toward Louisville.

 

[BobOnTheJob]

Terrain from WJAA (and nearby WXKU 92.7) is quite favorable to the north. Fairly low ground with a decently tall tower and the ground to the north gently sloping upwards is good combination as the receiver is gaining elevation as the distance increases and there are no high spots to block the signal. WHHH sits in a bowl & the first thing it hits 10-11 miles south is a good sized hill around the Greenwood exit. If I recall correctly, the antenna bays for WHHH are on the north side of their tower, which will naturally cast a shadow to the south. The ethnic demographics make this a no-brainer for WHHH. WJAA's bays are pointed north & as a result, their signal dies a quick death just 25 miles or so south. Based on all of this and the fact that the Johnson/Shelby County Line is within a few miles of being equi-distant from both signals, I'd have to disagree that WHHH could be expected to dominate. Even when WHHH was on top of the Bank One building, the results were similar to the south.

Bob, you're right about the terrain. I didn't take that or the direction of WHHH's antenna bays under consideration when I posted. This does explain why I can get WHHH to some degree all the way up I-65 to the Frankfort exit before WAZY in Lafayette blasts them off the dial and why WJAA disappears pretty quickly going southbound toward Louisville.

It's pretty amazing how much effect the mounting of the bays affects which way the signal goes. Take for example the new WYGB 100.3 site north of Columbus. Signal is listenable up to the south side of Lebanon on 65 (55 miles) but in Bloomington (behind the tower) there's practically no signal at all at 37 miles. I heard Hopkinsville,KY on 100.3 in Bloomington more than WYGB a week or 2 ago. W219DO 91.7 is on the same tower, but on a different face. Its 19 watts sounds great on car radios in Franklin & Columbus, but it's Missing In Action in Shelbyville--even though the site is roughly equal in distance to all 3 towns. And that's on a 24" face tower...bigger towers can have even more pronounced shadowing effects.

 

[Apollo7979]

It's pretty amazing how much effect the mounting of the bays affects which way the signal goes. Take for example the new WYGB 100.3 site north of Columbus. Signal is listenable up to the south side of Lebanon on 65 (55 miles) but in Bloomington (behind the tower) there's practically no signal at all at 37 miles. I heard Hopkinsville,KY on 100.3 in Bloomington more than WYGB a week or 2 ago. W219DO 91.7 is on the same tower, but on a different face. Its 19 watts sounds great on car radios in Franklin & Columbus, but it's Missing In Action in Shelbyville--even though the site is roughly equal in distance to all 3 towns. And that's on a 24" face tower...bigger towers can have even more pronounced shadowing effects.

I have another question for you in regards to antenna bays. Does it matter which direction they face if the station isn't considered directional by the FCC?

I worked for a rimshot station awhile back that had their bays facing a different direction from the city they're serving. In this case, the bays were facing northeast instead of east-southeast, which is the direction of the city they serve from the tower site. Hypothetically speaking, if the owner of the non-directional signal wanted to spend the cash to move the bays on the tower, would they have to file a CP to do so?

 

[BobOnTheJob]

It's pretty amazing how much effect the mounting of the bays affects which way the signal goes. Take for example the new WYGB 100.3 site north of Columbus. Signal is listenable up to the south side of Lebanon on 65 (55 miles) but in Bloomington (behind the tower) there's practically no signal at all at 37 miles. I heard Hopkinsville,KY on 100.3 in Bloomington more than WYGB a week or 2 ago. W219DO 91.7 is on the same tower, but on a different face. Its 19 watts sounds great on car radios in Franklin & Columbus, but it's Missing In Action in Shelbyville--even though the site is roughly equal in distance to all 3 towns. And that's on a 24" face tower...bigger towers can have even more pronounced shadowing effects.

I have another question for you in regards to antenna bays. Does it matter which direction they face if the station isn't considered directional by the FCC?

I worked for a rimshot station awhile back that had their bays facing a different direction from the city they're serving. In this case, the bays were facing northeast instead of east-southeast, which is the direction of the city they serve from the tower site. Hypothetically speaking, if the owner of the non-directional signal wanted to spend the cash to move the bays on the tower, would they have to file a CP to do so?

Any station not designated as directional by the FCC is free to mount their antenna in any way on any tower type they choose. That can include mounting the bays on the tower face, tower leg or on a top-mounted pole. In most cases using smaller faced towers, the vertical signal will bounce straight out from the tower while the horizontal signal will often work a little better about 90 degrees each side of the direction it's aimed, while still producing a good amount of signal straight out. The worst areas are almost invariably behind the bays. Antennas top-mounted on poles are much less directional, but the vertical signal will still have a notch behind the bays.

 

[Kent]

I couldn't get WHHH on my home stereo in Indy 11 years ago. It came in just fine in the car, but it was useless at home. I lived near 86th and Township Line Rd. I was told, however, that part of the problem for me was the TV tower being just down the road. Makes sense, though I always wondered how I could get WCBK, WKKG and WIRE 91.1. I also got WDZQ and WILL-FM quite frequently.

The only stations from Kentucky I was able to get were on the AM band!