Spanish stations in Chicago

[TheIcon]

So what would the new 95.5 format be classified as? Is there a whole in this market for this type of Spanish station?

Here's hoping they play some of the English old-school mixes that used to be on La Kalle

What are the Spanish stations now..and what are their formats (not just "Spanish")

 

[davideduardo]

So what would the new 95.5 format be classified as?

Hot AC.

Is there a whole in this market for this type of Spanish station?

Clear seems to think so, as did Univision who has the same format on WPPN.

Here's hoping they play some of the English old-school mixes that used to be on La Kalle

Highly unlikely. That did not work, at least for long.

[/quote]What are the Spanish stations now..and what are their formats (not just "Spanish")
[/quote]

WOJO - Personality talk and regional Mexican
WLEY - Personality talk and regional
WVIV/VIX Mexican adult hits.
WPPN Hot AC
WNUE Hot AC

 

[BRNout]

Don't you think that it's a mistake for Clear Channel to take on Univision's established format in a head to head battle like this? After all, Univision knows their audience really well and has built a lot of loyalty over the years by way of their various platforms.

Just because some knuckleheads at Clear Channel think that this is a good idea doesn't make it so. Personally, I smell the same corporate group think here as I did in Philly in 2006 - when their "Rumba" format crashed and burned (which I knew it would do from day one). This one may not be as spectacular of a failure, but it will meet the same fate as "Rumba" eventually.

 

[davideduardo]

Don't you think that it's a mistake for Clear Channel to take on Univision's established format in a head to head battle like this? After all, Univision knows their audience really well and has built a lot of loyalty over the years by way of their various platforms.

They have a significant signal advantage, and considerable experience with the format at KLOL and WMGE. Since the Hispanic sector is growing, and Chicago Hispanic population is also growing, this would be viewed as a good long term prospect.

Just because some knuckleheads at Clear Channel think that this is a good idea doesn't make it so. Personally, I smell the same corporate group think here as I did in Philly in 2006 - when their "Rumba" format crashed and burned (which I knew it would do from day one). This one may not be as spectacular of a failure, but it will meet the same fate as "Rumba" eventually.

As I said, Philly was done before Clear had set up a full Hispanic division. They went in without recognizing the under-50 Hispanics were few and did not, for the most part, speak Spanish. Putting a full signal in Spanish and programming it 25-44 makes sense... in that demo, Chicago is a bit over 25% Hispanic.

 

[BRNout]

They have a significant signal advantage, and considerable experience with the format at KLOL and WMGE. Since the Hispanic sector is growing, and Chicago Hispanic population is also growing, this would be viewed as a good long term prospect.

That depends. Actually 106.7 really gets out there. Yes, 95.5 does better in-town but 106.7 does at least as well in the inner suburbs (Cicero comes to mind) and is stronger than 95.5 in Mexican enclaves like West Chicago and (especially) Wheeling.

As I said, Philly was done before Clear had set up a full Hispanic division. They went in without recognizing the under-50 Hispanics were few and did not, for the most part, speak Spanish. Putting a full signal in Spanish and programming it 25-44 makes sense... in that demo, Chicago is a bit over 25% Hispanic.

Let's expand on that a bit. The 25-44 Hispanic audience may be 25%, but they should not be considered as a block (as one could do with African-Americans). There are those who are fresh over the fence who have little disposable income. That is the key audience for this station - but ultimately not a very lucrative group. On the other hand, there ARE plenty of Hispanics in that age group who have been here longer and who have plenty of disposable income. They are also more apt to listen to many of the same stations that white 25-44 audiences do.

So the while 25% figure sounds impressive, it is also misleading. A good chunk of that group rarely listens to the offerings of Spanish language radio. They find it stogy.

Also remember that we count many people as "Hispanic" who were born and raised here and who speak English. There's a distinction between them and the 'no habla ingles' group that Mega is shooting for. With all of the other Spanish-language stations in the market, I think it's become over-saturated.

If you want to go by percentages here, perhaps we should have a full-market FM with a Polish or Russian format rather than FIVE in Spanish. It's getting out of hand.

If we had the level of language regulation that Canada has, this would have never ever been permitted. And there would be a Polish community FM.

 

[clone]

Let's expand on that a bit. The 25-44 Hispanic audience may be 25%, but they should not be considered as a block (as one could do with African-Americans). There are those who are fresh over the fence who have little disposable income. That is the key audience for this station - but ultimately not a very lucrative group. On the other hand, there ARE plenty of Hispanics in that age group who have been here longer and who have plenty of disposable income. They are also more apt to listen to many of the same stations that white 25-44 audiences do.

So the while 25% figure sounds impressive, it is also misleading. A good chunk of that group rarely listens to the offerings of Spanish language radio. They find it stogy.

Let's not get DE started on the buying power of the Hispanic audience. I've been trying to throw out my broken receords... But I digress...as for the significant signal advantage, let's take a look:

WPPN: http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=FM287983.html
WNUA: http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=FM119349.html

I guess he was right! I don't know how Univision can be as strong as they are without service in the Hispanic strongholds such as Gary, IN and Chicago Heights!

But yes, it's getting out of hand. I don't say that just because I speak English. I say that because it's a terrible long-term prospect, with immigration at a practical stand-still since the economy tanked, more and more young Hispanics listening to Kiss and B96, and yes, the reduced buying power of the target demo vs. the affluent community which WNUA was targeted to.

But the sound of every doctor's office waiting room, conference center gallery, office building PA, and executive's Lexus tuning out all at once would send me into fits if I was a "stockholder". Good thing I'm not, anymore!

 

[davideduardo]

Let's expand on that a bit. The 25-44 Hispanic audience may be 25%, but they should not be considered as a block (as one could do with African-Americans). There are those who are fresh over the fence who have little disposable income. That is the key audience for this station - but ultimately not a very lucrative group. On the other hand, there ARE plenty of Hispanics in that age group who have been here longer and who have plenty of disposable income. They are also more apt to listen to many of the same stations that white 25-44 audiences do.

Not really. Length of time in the US does not change musical taste, which is imprinted in the early years of adolesence. While there may be some usage of English language stations for certain information needs, in general unless you grew up in Latin America listening to English music (as many do, but not many who emigrate), you will preserve your tastes for life. Anecdotally, I did much of my early teen time in Mexico and Ecuador; you don't find me enjoying any English language music stations... I find them either lacking interest or annoying.

A word on "Hispanics" and that word is "culture." The significant majority of Hispanics are white... in fact, that is how the Census counts most Hispanics; the "Hispanic Y/N" question on the Census is separate from the race qestion.

Stations like Univision's "Recuerdo" are targeted at longer-time residents who grew up, either as second generation Americans or in Mexico, listening to the kind of variety and mix of genres not seen on radio today. Those listeners average several decades in the US, and use little or no English radio unless someone else puts a station on.

So the while 25% figure sounds impressive, it is also misleading. A good chunk of that group rarely listens to the offerings of Spanish language radio. They find it stogy.

The figures Arbitron uses show the Chicago Hispanic audience to be over 60% Spanish dominant, and that does not include bilinguals. Bilinguals who grew up in a Spanish dominant environment will use a lot if not all Spanish language radio.

Also remember that we count many people as "Hispanic" who were born and raised here and who speak English. There's a distinction between them and the 'no habla ingles' group that Mega is shooting for. With all of the other Spanish-language stations in the market, I think it's become over-saturated.

With a pop format, what in English would be called Hot AC, you will find a huge percent of listeners are bilingual and even English domiant because the mood and style of the music has closer cultural connections... it speaks to the group, even if they are proficient in English.

If we had the level of language regulation that Canada has, this would have never ever been permitted. And there would be a Polish community FM.

And we would not have a First Ammendment to the U.S. Constiturion.

 

[mimo]

The language regulation comment about Canadian radio is not true. We do have stations that programme predominantly to what are called "3rd language" groups. These are people who's first language is neither English nor French. Toronto has a station for the Greek community, the Spanish language community, several for the south Asians and a few for the Cantonese/Mandarin communities. Some will overlap and do multiple languages. There are only 3 french language stations in Toronto, due to lingistic size, they just don't have the pop to support it. Only 2 of those stations, 1 AM, 1 FM are full market. Vancouver also has 1 full market AM that's only for the south Asian community, as well as 2 other high powered AM's just over the border and one moderate powered FM that are for the south asian community. 3 stations (2 AM, 1 FM) that are for the Cantonese/Mandarin communities. In smaller cities multicultural radio is available and they programme to usually 21 different communities in blocks. Outside of Quebec and Ottawa, you're lucky to get more than 1 or 2 french language stations.

The CRTC awards licenses proportionally to the linguistic groups of each city. If the pop is big enough, then they get their own station. 2 AM applications for south Asian programming were denied last month in Toronto because the market is over saturated, with programming available on AM 530, 770 (day) 1320, 1430 1610 and FM 101.3. I think their might be an hour or two also on 88.9 and 100.7, so you tell me if 2 more frequencies on the AM dial were needed?

Lo0king back (early to mid 90's) in Chicago radio. There were a decent ammount of Spanish language stations even then. WIND, WTAQ WOPA/WLXX, the 3 stations at 1240 and WONX. For the longest time, WOJO was the only FM, until WLEY came about. Back then, WIND, WTAQ and WOJO programmed for the Mexican community, WOPA was a mix of pop/ac and some regional Mexican. It was blocked by daypart, and there were even some rock programmes, then they changed to LA X, for a while featured mostly Banda music until they went tropical. WONX featured a lot of tropical programming and some shows for the south American community. 1240 had mostly religious progamming, I remember SOME tropical shows from time to time. WIND, WTAQ and WOJO (not in that order) were the most listened to stations as they programmed to the largest Spanish speaking community. WOPA/WLXX struggled, ratings wise, but when you lo0k at the size of the Puerto Rican community in Chicago, WLXX did phenomenally well. They captured a go0d portion of that particular community, as it was all they had 24 hours a day. WONX was/is blocked and wasn't tropical nor was it 24 hours a day. It also didn't cover the whole market day or night.

The market is obviously there for all these stations in Spanish, if there's not, then only the strong will survive. On a personal note (coming from a white person) we whites need to get over ourselves. We're not the majority in this world, we never will be, and we need to recognise other communities in our cities have just as much right to entertainment/information as we do, in the language of ease/comfort/familiarity/choice. So if you feel it's at your expense as far as choices go, remember, English is still the language of the majority of radio stations in the city. If the market is there for your station, it will survive, if it's not it will go away. I'm sorry but that's how it seems to be. We've all lost stations we love to a format that drives us nuts. Not a single station I grew up with (and I'm 33) is doing what it was 20-25 years ago. Except for WBBM.

 

[mimo]

I meant AM 1650 for south Asians in the previous post, AM 1610 is Spanish language

 

[BRNout]

Mimo, are you trying to tell me that the CRTC doesn't have English and French quotas on licenses? And that they don't take percentages of linguistic groups into account? Because that's what I wrote. Not sure how I'm wrong unless I was misunderstood.

Just try and flip a French station to English and see what happens. Unless you can convince the CRTC that all the Francophones moved away, good luck! In the fictional example I gave, the CRTC would certainly not have granted permission for Clear Channel to flip WNUA to Spanish given all of the other stations (AM and FM) that serve this linguistic group.

One last note of disagreement with mimo. There is no need to reduce this to some half-baked racial discussion. As David correctly pointed out, most Hispanics are white. And, almost all blacks (particularly here in Chicago), asians and other races actually speak English.

No, this is an issue of language and culture. Wise countries value and preserve theirs. Foolish ones piss them away. That's what we're doing here in the USA right now. By making it so easy to not have to learn English, we have an amazing number of immigrants who can live (quite comfortably) in Miami, New York or LA for 30+ years without ever having to learn English. It's not hyperbole, it's true because I know actual examples of this. That's very bad for the long-term viability of a nation.

Sorry folks, I know it's un PC - but a stop needs to be put to this sort of thing. And, traveling to other countries just reinforces that belief because few allow the liberal use of a foreign language on their soil. Their native language ALWAYS comes first. We don't need to "get over ourselves" - we need to either wise up, or to start sewing white flags.

Now I am off to our local Mexican supermarket to get some Masarica and Chicarrones.

 

[cyberdad]

I'm just back from a week in Canada....including a couple of days in Toronto.  I don't pay a lot of attention, but IMHO, the CRTC has done a fine job seeing to it that ethnics and other miniorities are being served.  Ethnic and minority programming is liberally scattered up and down the dial.  Obviously no system is perfect, and I'm not a fan or advocate of government intervention.  But it could be argued that if the government didn't step in and make an effort to see to it that there's a diversity of service, some rather significant populations would go completely unserved.  That includes "undesirable demographic" guys like me!  ;D

In the case of the Chicago area, where I live, my view is despite all the Spanish outlets, the Spanish market is still proportionally underserved.  If CC is putting a format on 95.5 that's designed to go up against 106.7, they'll be doing so with a bigger signal.  I worked at a "predecessor" of WPPN on 106.7 back in the 70s.  Then, as now, the stick was in Buffalo Grove.  This meant a fabulous signal north and northwest of the city, but only a fair signal in parts of the city itself and in the western suburbs.....and an inferior signal just about anywhere south of the loop.

 

[BRNout]

In the case of the Chicago area, where I live, my view is despite all the Spanish outlets, the Spanish market is still proportionally underserved. If CC is putting a format on 95.5 that's designed to go up against 106.7, they'll be doing so with a bigger signal. I worked at a "predecessor" of WPPN on 106.7 back in the 70s. Then, as now, the stick was in Buffalo Grove. This meant a fabulous signal north and northwest of the city, but only a fair signal in parts of the city itself and in the western suburbs.....and an inferior signal just about anywhere south of the loop.

Based on what do you think that the Spanish-speaking population is underserved? Count up all of the Spanish language options available on the radio. If anything, they are now disproportionately over represented. Under represented groups in this area include eastern Europeans, south Asians, and (based on demographics) blacks.

Also, the 106.7 signal is a lot better than 95.5 once you get north of the Loop. With 50 kw, it covers most areas from downtown north and west quite adequately - as far out as Aurora. The signal from 95.5 covers a large area but, as is the case with all Sears Tower signals, it's also less than 10 kw. So, penetration into buildings isn't as strong once you get more than 20-25 miles away from downtown. Radio-Locator maps don't tell you this, but your radio would.

WPPN better serves the Latino communities in Lake County (lots of 'em around Waukegan, Antioch, even Vernon Hills), northern Cook County (Wheeling, Bensenville, Des Plaines), and parts of the Fox Valley (particularly the Elgin area). WNUA has a better signal in most city neighborhoods, Chicago Heights and Cicero as well as southwestern suburbs (Bolingbrook). Based on personal experience, I'd say they're about equal in Aurora and West Chicago. All are areas with a heavy Latino population.

Given all this, WNUA has some signal advantage - mainly within the City of Chicago (most areas straight south have a heavier black population) - but it's hardly the knockout that you guys are trying to imply. Again, given Univision's programming experience with this audience and their incredible cross-promotion capabilities within the Latino (particularly Mexican) community, my money is on WPPN to drive WNUA (or whatever it becomes) out of the head to head race within 18 months.

 

[cyberdad]

Given all this, WNUA has some signal advantage - mainly within the City of Chicago (most areas straight south have a heavier black population) - but it's hardly the knockout that you guys are trying to imply. 

I'm not trying to imply anything.  I'll just speak from experience and fact.  When I was in sales at WYEN (106.7) in the 70s, the thing that kept us from being taken seriously was our signal and resultant lack of numbers.  I could....and did....argue with ad agencies about the desirability of "north versus south" until the cows came home.  At the end of the day, the problem was that we didn't adequately cover the entire market.  I don't care if Einstein, Bill Paley, General Sarnoff, and Zig Ziglar are joining forces to run things....I can guarantee you Univision would want a Sears tower stick for 106.7 if they could have one. They'd also fear a new head to head competitor who all of a sudden has one.  This isn't to say Univision can't win....I personally sort of hope they will.  But things just got a LOT more uncomfortable for them.

 

[mimo]

Mimo, are you trying to tell me that the CRTC doesn't have English and French quotas on licenses? And that they don't take percentages of linguistic groups into account? Because that's what I wrote. Not sure how I'm wrong unless I was misunderstood.

Just try and flip a French station to English and see what happens. Unless you can convince the CRTC that all the Francophones moved away, good luck! In the fictional example I gave, the CRTC would certainly not have granted permission for Clear Channel to flip WNUA to Spanish given all of the other stations (AM and FM) that serve this linguistic group.

One last note of disagreement with mimo. There is no need to reduce this to some half-baked racial discussion. As David correctly pointed out, most Hispanics are white. And, almost all blacks (particularly here in Chicago), asians and other races actually speak English.

No, this is an issue of language and culture. Wise countries value and preserve theirs. Foolish ones piss them away. That's what we're doing here in the USA right now. By making it so easy to not have to learn English, we have an amazing number of immigrants who can live (quite comfortably) in Miami, New York or LA for 30+ years without ever having to learn English. It's not hyperbole, it's true because I know actual examples of this. That's very bad for the long-term viability of a nation.

Sorry folks, I know it's un PC - but a stop needs to be put to this sort of thing. And, traveling to other countries just reinforces that belief because few allow the liberal use of a foreign language on their soil. Their native language ALWAYS comes first. We don't need to "get over ourselves" - we need to either wise up, or to start sewing white flags.

Now I am off to our local Mexican supermarket to get some Masarica and Chicarrones.

After reading some of the original responses a few times before I posted, I did mis-understand what was written. I'm sorry for that. I've always loved reading your posts in various threads BRNout.

There was a case where a french station was flipped to English recently It was in Kelowna B.C. The CBC French tv stations was flipped to an English station a few years ago, when it was found there wasn't enough of the population to support it. A couple of decades ago, there had been some English language stations that had flipped to Ethnic stations in Canada. The CRTC allowed that to0, even though there were stations already serving those linguistic groups. I guess the CRTC found they were underserved.

I'm lo0king forward to seeing what happens with Mega 95.5. Will they crash and burn? Or will they manage to carve out a nice slice of the pie for themselves. Time will tell. I VERY much agree that there are plenty of linguistic groups that are underserved in Chicago. The only time I ever heard any south Asian programming was on WONX after 6 pm in the mid 90's In the later part of the decad and into the early 2000's I never heard it on WONX again. There was also one time I heard some on AM 1080. ¿Aren't they the only station on the dial programming for South Asians? WCEV, WKTA and the polnet station on 1030 are the only stations I'm aware of programming for Eastern Europeans in Chicago. Maybe there is some on WPNA 1490 as well.

 

[[email protected]]

The Spanish Language Community is certainly not one homogenous group. There is as much demographic diversification in that community as there is in the Anglo-American Community. Because of this, there are several differing musical formats that cater to the Spanish Language Community.

Clear Channel is hurting big-time, these days, and needs to bring in as much cash as it can in the shortest time possible. Evidently they believe the Mega 95.5 format can help them do this.

It should be interesting to see if they can achieve that goal.

 

[radioman148]

The Spanish Language Community is certainly not one homogenous group. There is as much demographic diversification in that community as there is in the Anglo-American Community. Because of this, there are several differing musical formats that cater to the Spanish Language Community.

Clear Channel is hurting big-time, these days, and needs to bring in as much cash as it can in the shortest time possible. Evidently they believe the Mega 95.5 format can help them do this.

It should be interesting to see if they can achieve that goal.

That's going to be a tough task.

 

[BRNout]

After reading some of the original responses a few times before I posted, I did mis-understand what was written. I'm sorry for that. I've always loved reading your posts in various threads BRNout.

There was a case where a french station was flipped to English recently It was in Kelowna B.C. The CBC French tv stations was flipped to an English station a few years ago, when it was found there wasn't enough of the population to support it. A couple of decades ago, there had been some English language stations that had flipped to Ethnic stations in Canada. The CRTC allowed that to0, even though there were stations already serving those linguistic groups. I guess the CRTC found they were underserved.

I'm lo0king forward to seeing what happens with Mega 95.5. Will they crash and burn? Or will they manage to carve out a nice slice of the pie for themselves. Time will tell. I VERY much agree that there are plenty of linguistic groups that are underserved in Chicago. The only time I ever heard any south Asian programming was on WONX after 6 pm in the mid 90's In the later part of the decad and into the early 2000's I never heard it on WONX again. There was also one time I heard some on AM 1080. ¿Aren't they the only station on the dial programming for South Asians? WCEV, WKTA and the polnet station on 1030 are the only stations I'm aware of programming for Eastern Europeans in Chicago. Maybe there is some on WPNA 1490 as well.

Thanks for the reply mimo - I feel the same way about your posts too. We had some fun discussions here and I'm glad to see that continue! That was interesting info about the French station that was permitted to flip to English language programming. Most of my experience with the French-English licensing issue is in Ontario and Quebec and the CRTC seems pretty strict about it there. So, I learned something from that one.

Personally, I have reservations about this move by Clear Channel in that it smacks of knee-jerk thinking. To me, it does not seem to be a well researched or thought out move. I am sure that someone from their Chicago cluster would argue with me about that, but the actual Spanish format chosen for "Mega" certainly shows a lack of imagination. Let's just say that I would have had a harder time arguing this had they gone with Hurban as many on that other Chicago board thought that they would.

On the cultural/language issue, I live in an area with a lot of Russian speakers and quite a few Polish speakers. Add the latter group to the thousands in Chicago proper and they would probably be able to get at least an LPFM in Canada - which is where my thinking was coming from. Yes, there are AM stations targeting them, but they're still underserved in relative terms. I doubt that the money is there to program an FM in either language - but that's where my CRTC talk was coming from. Because I feel confident that if Toronto had the hundreds of thousands of Poles that Chicago does, you'd see something on FM for them. Here it won't happen because of simple economics.

The Spanish Language Community is certainly not one homogenous group. There is as much demographic diversification in that community as there is in the Anglo-American Community. Because of this, there are several differing musical formats that cater to the Spanish Language Community.

Clear Channel is hurting big-time, these days, and needs to bring in as much cash as it can in the shortest time possible. Evidently they believe the Mega 95.5 format can help them do this.

It should be interesting to see if they can achieve that goal.

dd, I certainly recognize this better than most here and agree with you wholeheartedly about the non-homogeneity of Spanish speakers. Believe it or not, I live with some of them and can tell you that they have a range of tastes based on age, education level and general interest. Actually, it's the basis of a lot of my "anti" arguments, as there's a solid chunk of the "Hispanic" demographic that doesn't listen to any of the Spanish stations offered on local radio. Frankly, Clear Channel is not recognizing this reality.

As for how they're having financial issues, that's certainly true. However, this move smacks of corporate "group think" where no one is bothering to plan for the long-term. I don't see Mega making them big bucks anytime soon for a number of reasons. For one thing, they're looking at taking a thin slice of a not-so-rich pie. And, in doing so, they're bumbling into a marketplace that requires a different cultural mindset to sell the product. Univision and SBS already super-serve this cultural market and they know what they're doing. They make money, in part, because their entire cost structure is different and they know from day 1 that their sales will be lower per market share than, say, WBBM or WSCR gets. For them, it's fine because they're set up to profit from it. As long as they can garner a decent rating and loyal listenership, they make money.

Clear Channel is nothing like this. For one thing, they have to sell to a different set of clients for this station. Sure, they can get some national ads in Spanish - but their playbook involves selling across all of their stations in a given market. Mega's listeners and the places that they frequent are very, very different than the ones frequented by listeners of V103, WLIT, WGCI, etc. Univision does not have this issue - their portfolio is completely dedicated to a Spanish language audience and it's easier for them to sell their advertisers on all of their local properties. Taking them on head to head like this was absolutely unnecessary and foolish in my view.

Again, I predict that Mega is one station too many in this marketplace and that this flip is a mistake. But I also agree with you that it will be interesting to see how it plays out.