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Speaking of daytimers Sloppy Operating

M

mike704

Guest
To my dismay I have heard some very sloppy operating by a certain daytime only station lately. This station comes on with no ID in the morning and tonight they are still on the air at 10PM. It used to be you never heard something like this now it seems to happen all too frequently. Any thoughts?

MikeM
 
> To my dismay I have heard some very sloppy operating by a
> certain daytime only station lately. This station comes on
> with no ID in the morning and tonight they are still on the
> air at 10PM. It used to be you never heard something like
> this now it seems to happen all too frequently. Any
> thoughts?
>
> MikeM

No ID is a bad thing, but there are hours of limited operation a daytimer can extend under fairly liberal circumstances (weather event, news event, coverage of a local issue). Plus, every daytimer I know of has applied for nighttime authority and gotten some kind of allowance. When I was at WZKY, we rocked Albemarle with 12 watts after sunset.
 
> > To my dismay I have heard some very sloppy operating by a
> > certain daytime only station lately. This station comes on
>
> > with no ID in the morning and tonight they are still on
> the
> > air at 10PM. It used to be you never heard something like
> > this now it seems to happen all too frequently. Any
> > thoughts?
> >
> > MikeM
>
> No ID is a bad thing, but there are hours of limited
> operation a daytimer can extend under fairly liberal
> circumstances (weather event, news event, coverage of a
> local issue). Plus, every daytimer I know of has applied
> for nighttime authority and gotten some kind of allowance.
> When I was at WZKY, we rocked Albemarle with 12 watts after
> sunset.
The company I used to work for purchased a daytimer a couple of years ago. Here are a couple of unbelievable things that went on there before the sale went through. I won't mention the call letters or town, but we'll tell you it's in the area covered under the Charlotte board. The station didn't use a program log at all. They played thier spots in alphabetical order, WHEN they wanted to, NO JOKE!!!! Also, the station had nighttime authority, but the low power transmitter had stopped working, so they decided to stay on the air at full power (5000 watts) from 6am to 6pm no matter what time of the year it was. This had been going on for years until the sale went through.
 
As a general rule, there are many small-town, Mom 'n' Pop run, stations that think, "These few extra watts at night ain't gonna hurt. They still ain't gonna be able to hear us where we ain't supposed be heard." I think most EVERYONE here has experienced this at one time or another...maybe. Actually, if one station did it, no the interference probably wouldn't be detectable--but when everyone thinks they are the only ones doing it(and "one" equals "hundreds"), well...

I will never forget about 20 years ago...I had become acquainted with some radio folks up in Bluefield, WV. I use to listen to one of their AMers here in Morganton during critical hours--great time for AM dxing!! The station was WBDY at 1190 and running 10kw. But, they were a daytimer--to make room for WOWO's former killer signal. The AM duplicated the FM about 90% and they were live at the time--and no automated transmitter remote control. Since the AM was all but forgotten, it was always hard for the FM board op to remember to signoff the AM at sunset. I tuned in one night around 11pm and heard them blasting. I called the board op and told him. He literally dropped the phone before I could finish my sentence and just a few seconds later I heard the AM carrier drop. When he came back to the phone I could all but see the sweat beads on his head!! He asked if I was the FCC or if I was going to call the FCC!! I chuckled and told him I worked in radio and I understood. He was very gracious and asked if I'd please call if I ever noticed that again.
 
> This station comes on with no ID in the morning and
> tonight they are still on the air at 10PM.

I know this station VERY well. I won't name names, but they are allowed a Pre-Sunrise authority of "less than ten" watts, then operate at 1/4 power for two hours post-sunrise before they can go to their full, licensed power.

In the afternoons, they go back to 1/4 power two hours before sunset, and then are allowed operation for two hours Post-Sunset at "less than ten" watts.

The owner of this station has "interpreted" the FCC rules concerning power level and hours of operation for nearly 20 years, without being cited for any violation.

It's like speeding on a highway...play the numbers right and you'll likely never get a ticket. Even if the numbers fail you, and you get caught, the fine you have to pay is so miniscule in proportion to the money you supposedly made by operating illegally, it becomes a mere cost of doing business.

I know that neither Highway Patrolmen nor FCC Inspectors like to hear those words, but they admit to the truth of them.

Later....
Matt Smith
 
> I called the board op
> and told him. He literally dropped the phone before I could
> finish my sentence and just a few seconds later I heard the
> AM carrier drop. When he came back to the phone I could all
> but see the sweat beads on his head!! He asked if I was the
> FCC or if I was going to call the FCC!! I chuckled and told
> him I worked in radio and I understood. He was very gracious
> and asked if I'd please call if I ever noticed that again.

Ha, there were one or two situations where I forgot to switch to the nighttime TX, usually a busy day of remotes or ballgames. And then there were a couple times when the team was away and the owner and play by play guy told me to shut off the channel unit (a big ass lightbulb that drained off wattage)just so they could hear their feedback at the game.

I won't even mention the clear channel (designation, not owner) station where the CE would come in and change the pattern and say, "right now we're blasting east to west, north to south!"
 
> > This station comes on with no ID in the morning and
> > tonight they are still on the air at 10PM.
>
> I know this station VERY well. I won't name names, but they
> are allowed a Pre-Sunrise authority of "less than ten"
> watts, then operate at 1/4 power for two hours post-sunrise
> before they can go to their full, licensed power.
>
Nope I don't think it's the station you are thinking of. It is a 10KW directional on a clear channel frequency. Is that enough of a hint?

MikeM
 
And of course, there's "ball game power." Certain competitors of the station I worked with would drop to their nighttime power, except on the nights of the local high school games. Then (imagine that) their signal would be MUCH louder. And, of course, after the game, it would drop back to "normal" power, and they've never been written up. This went on for years, and probably still happens today.

I'd dare say 2/3 of the small town stations could be written up for "ball game power" violations.

wncmacs
 
> It is a 10KW directional on a clear channel frequency. Is
> that enough of a hint?

Si Señor!

Matt
 
You know, it's so much easier to talk about "other" stations :)
Speaking of the "power" of ball games--no pun intended, David--I knew a broadcaster up in WV who demanded that the board ops turn off the exciter on the FM during the races...he wasn't broadcasting the race in stereo anyway, so he wanted wanted the "power drag" of stereo removed. I have also heard of other FM broadcasters doing creative things with STEREO--I read that there was a big local playoff game in this one station town--well the AM went off at sunset--and both girls and boys teams were playing the same night in different towns. So--you guessed it--they sent one game through the left channel and the other through the right. They really had to promo the fact that listeners MUST listen to the station through a stereo receiver!

Getting back to meat of this thread...I wonder how many daytimers have "justified" staying on long enough to squeeze in that high school football game--it's no more (il)legal than the full time stations that bump up the power after sunset.
 
> > It is a 10KW directional on a clear channel frequency. Is
>
> > that enough of a hint?
>
> Si Señor!
>
> Matt
>

You got it Matt. The matter has been taken care of. I found the email address of the man who was GM of the station back when I did some contract engineering work there. I got a nice reply saying he sent my comments on to the people in charge of the station (he has since moved up the corporate ladder). Magically I checked the station a couple of hours later and it was off the air.

I think I know the other station you were thinking of.

MikeM
 
Guilty...and here's why

I definitely remember the days of dotting the "i's" and crossing the "t's":

Some of you remember...sign on and off the transmitter log, take the transmitter readings every thirty minutes (20% fudge-factor on this one), log the tower lights okay, log the Conelrad (EBS) test, clear the wire, raise power, lower power, ride gain, sign on and off the program log, check off the items broadcast, one straight line and initial those items that didn't run, discrepancy sheet, logging the time each item ran, public affairs programming, third ticket, first phone, yada, yada, yada.

Here's why it has all mostly gone to hell in a handbasket...the FCC quit caring, so why should we?

First, it was allowing someone to get a "Provisonal" license (about like a learner's driving license), then going to the "anyone can get one" card-like license, then finally doing away with them...even first phones. When I took my test for the third ticket, I saw this as something to be taken seriously (and yes, I know all about the "7 week wonder" first phones).

One by one, all the requirements and restrictions faded away. To me, it was the same as hearing "WE DON'T CARE", from the FCC. I'm sure I'm not the only one that saw it that way.

Today's FCC is much more concerned about how much money they can raise by auctioning off construction permits, than they are about making sure that the public's "interest, convenience and necessity" is served. They have allowed (and still allow) moves/upgrades that, although presented in a way that appears to adhere to established priorites, provisions and procedures, are almost never what they state they are. Only someone deaf, dumb, blind and stupid would be unable to see the true facts in most of these "things". You know, the truth is that "they" do see and know the facts. The whole process is just a game.

Things being as they are, one can either choose to do it strictly according to the letter and spirit of the rules and regulations (and I think there are those total professionals, who really try to do it like it should be done), or you can move to the opposite side of the spectrum, and be another Levi Willis. In reality, I think the majority are plowing the middle ground. We try to do it right, but don't go all to pieces if circumstances (usually economic) prevent us from getting a grade of 100.

As for the "ballgame power", I definitely remember many a Saturday morning, running the tape of the previous night's football game on some daytimer. I also remember strictly following the rules, lowering power and/or changing pattern, as required...no matter what was on the air.

On the other hand, when almost everyone got some sort of nighttime authority, things got out of hand (not saying that there wasn't some prior out of hand stuff). I mean, come on. 3 watts, 26 watts, 49 watts? If you have an FIM, I suppose you could really tell the difference. Otherwise, I doubt it.

There was one situation that I know of, that had one station (with ZERO nighttime authority) staying on at night, using their pre-sunrise power of 500 watts. Another station, in a nearby town, decided to stay on full daytime power of 500 watts (instead of reducing to the authorized 126 watts), since the other guys weren't supposed to be on at all. No, it ain't right, but once you start that begattin' stuff, things can get WAY out of hand.

As bad as I hated some of those rules, if bringing them back would clean things up, I'd be all for it. Of course, it ain't ever gonna happen. Today, it's the old "money talks, and b*llsh*t walks" story. No matter how it may appear, just follow the money, and you'll find the facts. I'm sure that a couple of you can remember those days when it did you absolutely no good, to have your congressman or senator intervene on your behalf, before the Commission. Somehow, I'll bet it ain't that way today.
<P ID="signature">______________
Jay Braswell - Moderator
Atlanta/North Florida/South Carolina/Georgia Boards</P>
 
> > > It is a 10KW directional on a clear channel frequency.
> Is
> >
> > > that enough of a hint?
> >
> > Si Señor!
> >
> > Matt
> >
>
> You got it Matt. The matter has been taken care of. I
> found the email address of the man who was GM of the station
> back when I did some contract engineering work there. I got
> a nice reply saying he sent my comments on to the people in
> charge of the station (he has since moved up the corporate
> ladder). Magically I checked the station a couple of hours
> later and it was off the air.
>
> I think I know the other station you were thinking of.
>
> MikeM
>

Hey Mike,

Hows the contract engineering business in Soutern NC? Looking to move to GA/NC/SC, etc and taking my business with me. Else a big company willing to shovel money my way to keep them running fine ;-)
 
> To my dismay I have heard some very sloppy operating by a
> certain daytime only station lately. This station comes on
> with no ID in the morning and tonight they are still on the
> air at 10PM. It used to be you never heard something like
> this now it seems to happen all too frequently. Any
> thoughts?
>
> MikeM
>
I am familiar with the station you are hinting about and happen to know for a fact that it has a long history of compliance with all FCC rules. I also know that you were a former engineer at that station if you are the Mike that I think you are. I think it would be best to give a station that truly tries to comply with the rules a break especially since they likely had a problem and from your own admission appear to have corrected it.

Just my .02 cents.
 
> I am familiar with the station you are hinting about and
> happen to know for a fact that it has a long history of
> compliance with all FCC rules. I also know that you were a
> former engineer at that station if you are the Mike that I
> think you are. I think it would be best to give a station
> that truly tries to comply with the rules a break especially
> since they likely had a problem and from your own admission
> appear to have corrected it.
>
> Just my .02 cents.

Yes you are correct. However I doubt the FCC would say that trying to comply with the rules was good enough. How do you forget to turn it off?

Sorry if I stepped on some toes here. I did do the right thing and notified someone at the station.

My .05 cents

MikeM
 
> Hey Mike,
>
> Hows the contract engineering business in Soutern NC?
> Looking to move to GA/NC/SC, etc and taking my business with
> me. Else a big company willing to shovel money my way to
> keep them running fine ;-)


I don't really know. It always seems like one or two guys get all the work. I haven't worked in that part of the biz for awhile. Folks a lot more qualified than I am are out there. I started out as the #2 man and became the #1 man when the other guy decided to devote full time to school. I'd like to work as a #2 man to a chief but haven't found anything around here.

Seems like I stepped on some toes with my posts here so hey I may never get to do it. That's show biz!

MikeM
 
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