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Spring Book
- Thread starter topsound
- Start date
B
Bob1370
Guest
> They're whooping it up at James Casey, pretty happy in the
> Rand, taking their medicine at Corp Park.
Infinity has to be especially happy with WYRK retaking #1 12+ by a full 1.7 share margin. YRK gained while 'BEN dropped more than a full share to fall from first to second in 12+ AQH. 97 Rock jumped back up to third, and WHTT followed right behind, gaining a full share (who says oldies are a failing format?). WJYE held steady. WBLK may have been a disappointment to Infinity by falling 1.3 shares; I wonder if this is a sign that WBLK made a mistake by using a national morning show rather than keeping it local 24/7?
A little further down the list, Kiss 98.5 had an OK book, gaining fractionally (the one brightest spot for Entercom this time out), Edge 103.3 eased a little but within the margin of error, and Star 102.5 fell below a 5 share for the first time in a year---that monster signal is showing signs of underperforming.
WLKK showed its weakest book yet (although it's still got three times the share WNSA had as a sports station); it may be seeing its audience drift back to 97 Rock and need some tweaking. WGR is staying above a 3 share, and will probably make a further upward move in the fall with male demos as hockey play by play returns. WECK is below a 3 share for the first time in a long time. WBUF, with half the book as a talker and half as a Jacker, hasn't budged so far (I'd bet a little money it probably won't). CKEY, aka Wild 101, is continuing to slide---looks like Kiss 98.5 is the clear hit radio winner with its pop oriented slant. 'KB held on to the gains it made in the winter but didn't move any further upward.
None of the noncomms are listed in the listing released to Radio & Records and the other trades...you get commercial station results only. Usually the research firm that crunches the diaries for noncomms across the country breaks out its numbers a few weeks later.
All in all, an interesting book. What does everyone think about why it fell out the way it did?
> Rand, taking their medicine at Corp Park.
Infinity has to be especially happy with WYRK retaking #1 12+ by a full 1.7 share margin. YRK gained while 'BEN dropped more than a full share to fall from first to second in 12+ AQH. 97 Rock jumped back up to third, and WHTT followed right behind, gaining a full share (who says oldies are a failing format?). WJYE held steady. WBLK may have been a disappointment to Infinity by falling 1.3 shares; I wonder if this is a sign that WBLK made a mistake by using a national morning show rather than keeping it local 24/7?
A little further down the list, Kiss 98.5 had an OK book, gaining fractionally (the one brightest spot for Entercom this time out), Edge 103.3 eased a little but within the margin of error, and Star 102.5 fell below a 5 share for the first time in a year---that monster signal is showing signs of underperforming.
WLKK showed its weakest book yet (although it's still got three times the share WNSA had as a sports station); it may be seeing its audience drift back to 97 Rock and need some tweaking. WGR is staying above a 3 share, and will probably make a further upward move in the fall with male demos as hockey play by play returns. WECK is below a 3 share for the first time in a long time. WBUF, with half the book as a talker and half as a Jacker, hasn't budged so far (I'd bet a little money it probably won't). CKEY, aka Wild 101, is continuing to slide---looks like Kiss 98.5 is the clear hit radio winner with its pop oriented slant. 'KB held on to the gains it made in the winter but didn't move any further upward.
None of the noncomms are listed in the listing released to Radio & Records and the other trades...you get commercial station results only. Usually the research firm that crunches the diaries for noncomms across the country breaks out its numbers a few weeks later.
All in all, an interesting book. What does everyone think about why it fell out the way it did?
M
Mark_Giardina
Guest
Re: Spring Book In Rochester
Obeying the rules and regulations, no numbers will be posted.
However here is a summary of the Spring book in Rochester
Figures are 12+
Country is still king but by an inch. The big 50kw news/talk stayed the same as the winter book. WRMM took a major hit in this book, while WVOR went up slightly.
Those wondering how "Fickle" did. Nothing to write home about but up a fraction from the last book. The other stations averaged the same audience as they did in the previous book.
The non-commercial ratings should be out in a few weeks. Then we shall see if WXXI found its audience or not.
<P ID="signature">______________
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted and I won't be laid a hand on.
I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them".</P>
Obeying the rules and regulations, no numbers will be posted.
However here is a summary of the Spring book in Rochester
Figures are 12+
Country is still king but by an inch. The big 50kw news/talk stayed the same as the winter book. WRMM took a major hit in this book, while WVOR went up slightly.
Those wondering how "Fickle" did. Nothing to write home about but up a fraction from the last book. The other stations averaged the same audience as they did in the previous book.
The non-commercial ratings should be out in a few weeks. Then we shall see if WXXI found its audience or not.
<P ID="signature">______________
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted and I won't be laid a hand on.
I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them".</P>
> They're whooping it up at James Casey, pretty happy in the
> Rand, taking their medicine at Corp Park.
Yes, there is JYE in Muddville. And plenty of WYRK. Buffalo still doesn't know JACK, but Infinity is in the BLK - at least ratings-wise.
It's more of a rebound at 97-Rock, and they've reversed a downward trend at WHTT. They're less Edgy and more mature at 103.3.
Star appears to be getting younger, while KSE appears to be getting older - which is not what Corporate wants to hear. It's beginning to look more like Gentle BEN than Big BEN.
BTW, is KB still on the air? Tap-tap-tap "Testing", "Testing".
> Rand, taking their medicine at Corp Park.
Yes, there is JYE in Muddville. And plenty of WYRK. Buffalo still doesn't know JACK, but Infinity is in the BLK - at least ratings-wise.
It's more of a rebound at 97-Rock, and they've reversed a downward trend at WHTT. They're less Edgy and more mature at 103.3.
Star appears to be getting younger, while KSE appears to be getting older - which is not what Corporate wants to hear. It's beginning to look more like Gentle BEN than Big BEN.
BTW, is KB still on the air? Tap-tap-tap "Testing", "Testing".
M
mike704
Guest
Ratings in general
> All in all, an interesting book. What does everyone
> think about why it fell out the way it did?
Bob,
I always enjoy your well thought comments. Let me start a new train of thought. In our lifetime we have seen lots of improvments in radio, records to carts, carts to CD's and CD's to the computer. There have been many improvments to be sure. Why are we stuck with same old ratings system?
It really hasn't changed much, they give you a book, you fill it out (usually on the last day) and send it back. The trouble is there are many people who have never received a book to fill out. To me it's about as scientific as an Exit Poll on election day.
I wonder how many people have given up on radio, especially commercial radio? I would bet the number of public radio listeners and people who have turned to other media is greater than the numbers suggest.
Most people I know are tired of hearing jocks who are only allowed to deliver tired liners and not much else.
Mike
> All in all, an interesting book. What does everyone
> think about why it fell out the way it did?
Bob,
I always enjoy your well thought comments. Let me start a new train of thought. In our lifetime we have seen lots of improvments in radio, records to carts, carts to CD's and CD's to the computer. There have been many improvments to be sure. Why are we stuck with same old ratings system?
It really hasn't changed much, they give you a book, you fill it out (usually on the last day) and send it back. The trouble is there are many people who have never received a book to fill out. To me it's about as scientific as an Exit Poll on election day.
I wonder how many people have given up on radio, especially commercial radio? I would bet the number of public radio listeners and people who have turned to other media is greater than the numbers suggest.
Most people I know are tired of hearing jocks who are only allowed to deliver tired liners and not much else.
Mike
> > They're whooping it up at James Casey, pretty happy in the
>
> > Rand, taking their medicine at Corp Park.
>
> Yes, there is JYE in Muddville. And plenty of WYRK. Buffalo
> still doesn't know JACK, but Infinity is in the BLK - at
> least ratings-wise.
>
> It's more of a rebound at 97-Rock, and they've reversed a
> downward trend at WHTT. They're less Edgy and more mature at
> 103.3.
>
> Star appears to be getting younger, while KSE appears to be
> getting older - which is not what Corporate wants to hear.
> It's beginning to look more like Gentle BEN than Big BEN.
>
> BTW, is KB still on the air? Tap-tap-tap "Testing",
> "Testing".
>
BTW, is KB still on the air? Tap-tap-tap "Testing", "Testing".
Yes they are, and recently travelling thru Penn. and N.J. "KB" came in clear with great oldies, what's wrong with that?
>
> > Rand, taking their medicine at Corp Park.
>
> Yes, there is JYE in Muddville. And plenty of WYRK. Buffalo
> still doesn't know JACK, but Infinity is in the BLK - at
> least ratings-wise.
>
> It's more of a rebound at 97-Rock, and they've reversed a
> downward trend at WHTT. They're less Edgy and more mature at
> 103.3.
>
> Star appears to be getting younger, while KSE appears to be
> getting older - which is not what Corporate wants to hear.
> It's beginning to look more like Gentle BEN than Big BEN.
>
> BTW, is KB still on the air? Tap-tap-tap "Testing",
> "Testing".
>
BTW, is KB still on the air? Tap-tap-tap "Testing", "Testing".
Yes they are, and recently travelling thru Penn. and N.J. "KB" came in clear with great oldies, what's wrong with that?
R
RobertMoore
Guest
Bummer! It looks like Wild's move to mainstream was not so "Wild."
S
swillh2k2
Guest
WGR thought
Interesting how people (namely Pergament and his group of loyal readers) complain about WGR's "lack" of sports talk, but the station maintains above a 3 share, with that number sure to go up. Doesn't seem to have made a dent in the ratings as of yet.
Interesting how people (namely Pergament and his group of loyal readers) complain about WGR's "lack" of sports talk, but the station maintains above a 3 share, with that number sure to go up. Doesn't seem to have made a dent in the ratings as of yet.
B
Bob1370
Guest
Re: Ratings in general
> > All in all, an interesting book. What does everyone
> > think about why it fell out the way it did?
>
> Bob,
>
> I always enjoy your well thought comments. Let me start a
> new train of thought. In our lifetime we have seen lots of
> improvments in radio, records to carts, carts to CD's and
> CD's to the computer. There have been many improvments to
> be sure. Why are we stuck with same old ratings system?
Thanks for the kind words. There are experiments on two fronts. First, of course. there's new technology, especially Arbitron's experiment with the "People-Meter", an electronic monitoring system, to replace the diary method. It hasn't been generally implemented yet because early trials in markets like Philadelphia yielded results that looked bizarre (like an urban-format FM targeting 18-34 males, suddenly scoring hugely with suburban white women over 55 while scoring close to zero in its target demo). Later trials in Houston and in Britain generated results that made more sense, but it's still a work in progress and not ready for prime time.
Meanwhile Clear Channel is trying to put together an alternative ratings-tabulating firm, although it's hard to see how a ratings company owned by a major broadcaster will have any credibility with other broadcasters or the ad agencies.
> It really hasn't changed much, they give you a book, you
> fill it out (usually on the last day) and send it back. The
> trouble is there are many people who have never received a
> book to fill out. To me it's about as scientific as an Exit
> Poll on election day.
And that's how things will stay, at least until the people-meter system is perfected to the point that it yields consistent results that make more sense and appear more accurate and precise than the diary system.
> I wonder how many people have given up on radio, especially
> commercial radio? I would bet the number of public radio
> listeners and people who have turned to other media is
> greater than the numbers suggest.
You could be right, but the numbers we have from Arbitron are scary enough. Radio listening to all commercial stations hit its all time peak between 1989 and 1991. Since then, it's been in consistent, uninterrupted decline in terms of percentage of potential listeners 12+ using commercial radio in any given quarter-hour period.
As to public radio, it has made considerable gains. But the growth curve has stalled in recent months because of two things. One is the emergence of Air America as an alternative. Competition always gets sampled when it emerges. The other, and a reason WHY Air America is appealing to non-conservative listeners as an alternative to nonpartisan public radio, is that NPR has cultivated a very formal style and hasn't budged from it even as the rest of radio has become more informal and conversational. Air America has plenty of faults (its overall formatics often sound amateurish and reminiscent of college radio), but a lack of engaging personalities given a free reign to be themselves on the air and connect with their listeners is definitely not one of them. If NPR wants to resume growing its audience and prevent Air America from cutting seriously into their base of support, they'll have to allow their sound to be less formal and more human and accessible.
> Most people I know are tired of hearing jocks who are only
> allowed to deliver tired liners and not much else.
And if that's what they get, they might as well keep on programming their own CD decks and iPods. No personality and no information, to be sure...but since you don't get that from most radio stations now, you're not missing much and you never have to listen to endless stopsets in the middle of your own music.
> > All in all, an interesting book. What does everyone
> > think about why it fell out the way it did?
>
> Bob,
>
> I always enjoy your well thought comments. Let me start a
> new train of thought. In our lifetime we have seen lots of
> improvments in radio, records to carts, carts to CD's and
> CD's to the computer. There have been many improvments to
> be sure. Why are we stuck with same old ratings system?
Thanks for the kind words. There are experiments on two fronts. First, of course. there's new technology, especially Arbitron's experiment with the "People-Meter", an electronic monitoring system, to replace the diary method. It hasn't been generally implemented yet because early trials in markets like Philadelphia yielded results that looked bizarre (like an urban-format FM targeting 18-34 males, suddenly scoring hugely with suburban white women over 55 while scoring close to zero in its target demo). Later trials in Houston and in Britain generated results that made more sense, but it's still a work in progress and not ready for prime time.
Meanwhile Clear Channel is trying to put together an alternative ratings-tabulating firm, although it's hard to see how a ratings company owned by a major broadcaster will have any credibility with other broadcasters or the ad agencies.
> It really hasn't changed much, they give you a book, you
> fill it out (usually on the last day) and send it back. The
> trouble is there are many people who have never received a
> book to fill out. To me it's about as scientific as an Exit
> Poll on election day.
And that's how things will stay, at least until the people-meter system is perfected to the point that it yields consistent results that make more sense and appear more accurate and precise than the diary system.
> I wonder how many people have given up on radio, especially
> commercial radio? I would bet the number of public radio
> listeners and people who have turned to other media is
> greater than the numbers suggest.
You could be right, but the numbers we have from Arbitron are scary enough. Radio listening to all commercial stations hit its all time peak between 1989 and 1991. Since then, it's been in consistent, uninterrupted decline in terms of percentage of potential listeners 12+ using commercial radio in any given quarter-hour period.
As to public radio, it has made considerable gains. But the growth curve has stalled in recent months because of two things. One is the emergence of Air America as an alternative. Competition always gets sampled when it emerges. The other, and a reason WHY Air America is appealing to non-conservative listeners as an alternative to nonpartisan public radio, is that NPR has cultivated a very formal style and hasn't budged from it even as the rest of radio has become more informal and conversational. Air America has plenty of faults (its overall formatics often sound amateurish and reminiscent of college radio), but a lack of engaging personalities given a free reign to be themselves on the air and connect with their listeners is definitely not one of them. If NPR wants to resume growing its audience and prevent Air America from cutting seriously into their base of support, they'll have to allow their sound to be less formal and more human and accessible.
> Most people I know are tired of hearing jocks who are only
> allowed to deliver tired liners and not much else.
And if that's what they get, they might as well keep on programming their own CD decks and iPods. No personality and no information, to be sure...but since you don't get that from most radio stations now, you're not missing much and you never have to listen to endless stopsets in the middle of your own music.
> BTW, is KB still on the air? Tap-tap-tap "Testing",
> "Testing".
> Yes they are, and recently travelling thru Penn. and N.J.
> "KB" came in clear with great oldies, what's wrong with
> that?
>
Ain't nuthin' wrong with that! There's still plenty of magic hearing a big ol' 50k when you're cruising through the Poconos on 6-11 or the Catskills on route 17. Trouble is, ya can't sell advertising in the Poconos and Catskills. Outside of Neaverth, there ain't nuthin' on KB that draws even flies.
Sadly, Danny ain't lightin' things up in morning drive, but the man is a legend and he's always good for a chuckle. Enjoy him and KB while you can, because it's more than likely Entercom is gonna dump the moldies format and hop on the progressive talk bandwagon.
They flipped their 5k station in New Orleans last week. They've got that kiloWatt lightbulb on AAR in Rochester and the flamethrower in Buffalo could be next.
Much as the Fields are said to hate democrats, they loooooooove money. KB could be next.
> "Testing".
> Yes they are, and recently travelling thru Penn. and N.J.
> "KB" came in clear with great oldies, what's wrong with
> that?
>
Ain't nuthin' wrong with that! There's still plenty of magic hearing a big ol' 50k when you're cruising through the Poconos on 6-11 or the Catskills on route 17. Trouble is, ya can't sell advertising in the Poconos and Catskills. Outside of Neaverth, there ain't nuthin' on KB that draws even flies.
Sadly, Danny ain't lightin' things up in morning drive, but the man is a legend and he's always good for a chuckle. Enjoy him and KB while you can, because it's more than likely Entercom is gonna dump the moldies format and hop on the progressive talk bandwagon.
They flipped their 5k station in New Orleans last week. They've got that kiloWatt lightbulb on AAR in Rochester and the flamethrower in Buffalo could be next.
Much as the Fields are said to hate democrats, they loooooooove money. KB could be next.
""WBUF, with half the
> book as a talker and half as a Jacker, hasn't budged so far
> (I'd bet a little money it probably won't). CKEY, aka Wild
> 101, is continuing to slide---looks like Kiss 98.5 is the
> clear hit radio winner with its pop oriented slant. 'KB held
> on to the gains it made in the winter but didn't move any
> further upward.
> """"""
--hmm any preditions for WBUF .. ?? I"d see a 4 share next time...
as for CKEY/Wild.. they've been Tamed .. and no longer focus on buffalo but rather the Niagra market now on the canadian side ..and I don't feel too confident their numbers will be anything to dance to when they come out on this side... Expect a change soon..
..and once that happens.. KSE might return to 7 share glory ..we'll see..
hmmm ..any idea on what SuperDave might be countersue'ing for ..
> > They're whooping it up at James Casey, pretty happy in the
>
> > Rand, taking their medicine at Corp Park.
>
> Infinity has to be especially happy with WYRK retaking
> #1 12+ by a full 1.7 share margin. YRK gained while 'BEN
> dropped more than a full share to fall from first to second
> in 12+ AQH. 97 Rock jumped back up to third, and WHTT
> followed right behind, gaining a full share (who says oldies
> are a failing format?). WJYE held steady. WBLK may have been
> a disappointment to Infinity by falling 1.3 shares; I wonder
> if this is a sign that WBLK made a mistake by using a
> national morning show rather than keeping it local 24/7?
>
> A little further down the list, Kiss 98.5 had an OK
> book, gaining fractionally (the one brightest spot for
> Entercom this time out), Edge 103.3 eased a little but
> within the margin of error, and Star 102.5 fell below a 5
> share for the first time in a year---that monster signal is
> showing signs of underperforming.
>
> WLKK showed its weakest book yet (although it's still
> got three times the share WNSA had as a sports station); it
> may be seeing its audience drift back to 97 Rock and need
> some tweaking. WGR is staying above a 3 share, and will
> probably make a further upward move in the fall with male
> demos as hockey play by play returns. WECK is below a 3
> share for the first time in a long time. WBUF, with half the
> book as a talker and half as a Jacker, hasn't budged so far
> (I'd bet a little money it probably won't). CKEY, aka Wild
> 101, is continuing to slide---looks like Kiss 98.5 is the
> clear hit radio winner with its pop oriented slant. 'KB held
> on to the gains it made in the winter but didn't move any
> further upward.
>
> None of the noncomms are listed in the listing released
> to Radio & Records and the other trades...you get commercial
> station results only. Usually the research firm that
> crunches the diaries for noncomms across the country breaks
> out its numbers a few weeks later.
>
> All in all, an interesting book. What does everyone
> think about why it fell out the way it did?
>
> book as a talker and half as a Jacker, hasn't budged so far
> (I'd bet a little money it probably won't). CKEY, aka Wild
> 101, is continuing to slide---looks like Kiss 98.5 is the
> clear hit radio winner with its pop oriented slant. 'KB held
> on to the gains it made in the winter but didn't move any
> further upward.
> """"""
--hmm any preditions for WBUF .. ?? I"d see a 4 share next time...
as for CKEY/Wild.. they've been Tamed .. and no longer focus on buffalo but rather the Niagra market now on the canadian side ..and I don't feel too confident their numbers will be anything to dance to when they come out on this side... Expect a change soon..
..and once that happens.. KSE might return to 7 share glory ..we'll see..
hmmm ..any idea on what SuperDave might be countersue'ing for ..
> > They're whooping it up at James Casey, pretty happy in the
>
> > Rand, taking their medicine at Corp Park.
>
> Infinity has to be especially happy with WYRK retaking
> #1 12+ by a full 1.7 share margin. YRK gained while 'BEN
> dropped more than a full share to fall from first to second
> in 12+ AQH. 97 Rock jumped back up to third, and WHTT
> followed right behind, gaining a full share (who says oldies
> are a failing format?). WJYE held steady. WBLK may have been
> a disappointment to Infinity by falling 1.3 shares; I wonder
> if this is a sign that WBLK made a mistake by using a
> national morning show rather than keeping it local 24/7?
>
> A little further down the list, Kiss 98.5 had an OK
> book, gaining fractionally (the one brightest spot for
> Entercom this time out), Edge 103.3 eased a little but
> within the margin of error, and Star 102.5 fell below a 5
> share for the first time in a year---that monster signal is
> showing signs of underperforming.
>
> WLKK showed its weakest book yet (although it's still
> got three times the share WNSA had as a sports station); it
> may be seeing its audience drift back to 97 Rock and need
> some tweaking. WGR is staying above a 3 share, and will
> probably make a further upward move in the fall with male
> demos as hockey play by play returns. WECK is below a 3
> share for the first time in a long time. WBUF, with half the
> book as a talker and half as a Jacker, hasn't budged so far
> (I'd bet a little money it probably won't). CKEY, aka Wild
> 101, is continuing to slide---looks like Kiss 98.5 is the
> clear hit radio winner with its pop oriented slant. 'KB held
> on to the gains it made in the winter but didn't move any
> further upward.
>
> None of the noncomms are listed in the listing released
> to Radio & Records and the other trades...you get commercial
> station results only. Usually the research firm that
> crunches the diaries for noncomms across the country breaks
> out its numbers a few weeks later.
>
> All in all, an interesting book. What does everyone
> think about why it fell out the way it did?
>
D
Desi_Bell
Guest
>
> Sadly, Danny ain't lightin' things up in morning drive, but
> the man is a legend and he's always good for a chuckle.
> Enjoy him and KB while you can, because it's more than
> likely Entercom is gonna dump the moldies format and hop on
> the progressive talk bandwagon.
I love the way this rumor has come around at the same time the ratings are released since day one of the KB flip.
Do you guys figure if you keep saying the same thing every book that if it does happen you can say, "See...I told you so!"
Common sense says that Entercom will not compete with itself because WBEN is such a cash cow. Yes, I know that progressive talk is a lot different from what 'BEN offers, but I simply don't think that they would take the chance that they might split off any of that lucrative audience.
And now we wait for the hoary argument that WBEN's listeners are all between 50 and death...
> Sadly, Danny ain't lightin' things up in morning drive, but
> the man is a legend and he's always good for a chuckle.
> Enjoy him and KB while you can, because it's more than
> likely Entercom is gonna dump the moldies format and hop on
> the progressive talk bandwagon.
I love the way this rumor has come around at the same time the ratings are released since day one of the KB flip.
Do you guys figure if you keep saying the same thing every book that if it does happen you can say, "See...I told you so!"
Common sense says that Entercom will not compete with itself because WBEN is such a cash cow. Yes, I know that progressive talk is a lot different from what 'BEN offers, but I simply don't think that they would take the chance that they might split off any of that lucrative audience.
And now we wait for the hoary argument that WBEN's listeners are all between 50 and death...
> I love the way this rumor has come around at the same time
> the ratings are released since day one of the KB flip.
> Do you guys figure if you keep saying the same thing every
> book that if it does happen you can say, "See...I told you
> so!"
>
> Common sense says that Entercom will not compete with itself
> because WBEN is such a cash cow. Yes, I know that
> progressive talk is a lot different from what 'BEN offers,
> but I simply don't think that they would take the chance
> that they might split off any of that lucrative audience.
>
> And now we wait for the hoary argument that WBEN's listeners
> are all between 50 and death...
I agree with you, Desi. KB held on to its winter gains. It's really filling a nitch with music of the 50s and early 60s that no one else is playing. If KB moves to Air America, it loses audience. No doubt about it. Satellite talk in this market has never worked. I've occasionally heard Air America in Rochester. I might lean to the left, but I find Al Franken whiney. I'd rather listen to Rush! And I disagree with those who argue that Air America is taking audience from NPR. NPR offers substance. Air America offers the same sort of pablum of conservative talk radio, only from the left. It appears KB will never have a four or five share with oldies. But it now has more listeners than it ever had as a business, sports or country station. I think they'd be crazy to give up the music format right now.
> the ratings are released since day one of the KB flip.
> Do you guys figure if you keep saying the same thing every
> book that if it does happen you can say, "See...I told you
> so!"
>
> Common sense says that Entercom will not compete with itself
> because WBEN is such a cash cow. Yes, I know that
> progressive talk is a lot different from what 'BEN offers,
> but I simply don't think that they would take the chance
> that they might split off any of that lucrative audience.
>
> And now we wait for the hoary argument that WBEN's listeners
> are all between 50 and death...
I agree with you, Desi. KB held on to its winter gains. It's really filling a nitch with music of the 50s and early 60s that no one else is playing. If KB moves to Air America, it loses audience. No doubt about it. Satellite talk in this market has never worked. I've occasionally heard Air America in Rochester. I might lean to the left, but I find Al Franken whiney. I'd rather listen to Rush! And I disagree with those who argue that Air America is taking audience from NPR. NPR offers substance. Air America offers the same sort of pablum of conservative talk radio, only from the left. It appears KB will never have a four or five share with oldies. But it now has more listeners than it ever had as a business, sports or country station. I think they'd be crazy to give up the music format right now.
K-Big Change?
> > Common sense says that Entercom will not compete with
> > itself because WBEN is such a cash cow. Yes, I know that
> > progressive talk is a lot different from what 'BEN offers,
> > but I simply don't think that they would take the chance
> > that they might split off any of that lucrative audience.
Agreed. Especially now, since Big BEN's numbers have slipped a bit.
> I agree with you, Desi. KB held on to its winter gains.
> It's really filling a nitch with music of the 50s and early
> 60s that no one else is playing.
You are correct. And, since sports is already taken, and a talk format that would siphon even a share away from WBEN is very unlikely, what other format can they go to? Disney? Spanish? I doubt either of those will pay the electric bill.
> It appears KB will never have a
> four or five share with oldies. But it now has more
> listeners than it ever had as a business, sports or country
> station. I think they'd be crazy to give up the music
> format right now.
Bingo.
> > Common sense says that Entercom will not compete with
> > itself because WBEN is such a cash cow. Yes, I know that
> > progressive talk is a lot different from what 'BEN offers,
> > but I simply don't think that they would take the chance
> > that they might split off any of that lucrative audience.
Agreed. Especially now, since Big BEN's numbers have slipped a bit.
> I agree with you, Desi. KB held on to its winter gains.
> It's really filling a nitch with music of the 50s and early
> 60s that no one else is playing.
You are correct. And, since sports is already taken, and a talk format that would siphon even a share away from WBEN is very unlikely, what other format can they go to? Disney? Spanish? I doubt either of those will pay the electric bill.
> It appears KB will never have a
> four or five share with oldies. But it now has more
> listeners than it ever had as a business, sports or country
> station. I think they'd be crazy to give up the music
> format right now.
Bingo.
>
> Common sense says that Entercom will not compete with itself
> because WBEN is such a cash cow. Yes, I know that
> progressive talk is a lot different from what 'BEN offers,
> but I simply don't think that they would take the chance
> that they might split off any of that lucrative audience.
>
> And now we wait for the hoary argument that WBEN's listeners
> are all between 50 and death...
>
<font face="times new roman" size="3" color="330066">
"Hoary." It's such a splendid word. For those who may not know, it simply means "old, having white or gray hair." The initial theory might also have been called a "canard," meaning "a false statement or rumor... a hoax." Words are such wonderful tools which we use to express ourselves.
The initial post was an educated guess, akin to speculation in the stock market, a projection based on market conditions. I've never been one to shout bombastically, "see, there, I told you so."
The market conditions have not been kind to KB. Sure, it holds a certain glamour to most of us, based on its halcyon days of the 60s and 70s. But those days, as Steely Dan sang, "are gone forever."
Much is made of the station's position in the ratings, as if that were the sole means of measuring its success or lack of such. In the 35-64 demographic, the station (according to friends who have supplied me with the Fall '04 and Winter '05 ratings) isn't even in the top 10. The other method of measurement is revenue. A person like me who's been out of the business for a while can only guess at those numbers, but based on my experience, those numbers can't be anything to write home office about.
Still, we fans cannot let go.
My suggestion regarding Progressive Talk has nothing to do with my political opinions or ideology. It was solely based on observation of Entercom's WROC-AM, Rochester; most recently and more significantly, Entercom's format switch in New Orleans, where it put the Progressive Talk format on its WSMB, (5kW @1350) apparently with no worries about WSMB adversely affecting its established conservative news-talker, 50kW WWL.
As to WBEN, the station remains a strong news-talk station with hefty billing and strong ratings, despite the theorized (after all, who among us has actually seen the Spring '05 25-54 numbers?) losses.
Now about WBEN's listeners. "Hoary" seems to be an appropriate description.
It's all there in Tapscan.
</font>
<hr>
BTW, the imaging voice on KB is one of the better components of the station.
hoooooo-wahhhhhhhh!
> Common sense says that Entercom will not compete with itself
> because WBEN is such a cash cow. Yes, I know that
> progressive talk is a lot different from what 'BEN offers,
> but I simply don't think that they would take the chance
> that they might split off any of that lucrative audience.
>
> And now we wait for the hoary argument that WBEN's listeners
> are all between 50 and death...
>
<font face="times new roman" size="3" color="330066">
"Hoary." It's such a splendid word. For those who may not know, it simply means "old, having white or gray hair." The initial theory might also have been called a "canard," meaning "a false statement or rumor... a hoax." Words are such wonderful tools which we use to express ourselves.
The initial post was an educated guess, akin to speculation in the stock market, a projection based on market conditions. I've never been one to shout bombastically, "see, there, I told you so."
The market conditions have not been kind to KB. Sure, it holds a certain glamour to most of us, based on its halcyon days of the 60s and 70s. But those days, as Steely Dan sang, "are gone forever."
Much is made of the station's position in the ratings, as if that were the sole means of measuring its success or lack of such. In the 35-64 demographic, the station (according to friends who have supplied me with the Fall '04 and Winter '05 ratings) isn't even in the top 10. The other method of measurement is revenue. A person like me who's been out of the business for a while can only guess at those numbers, but based on my experience, those numbers can't be anything to write home office about.
Still, we fans cannot let go.
My suggestion regarding Progressive Talk has nothing to do with my political opinions or ideology. It was solely based on observation of Entercom's WROC-AM, Rochester; most recently and more significantly, Entercom's format switch in New Orleans, where it put the Progressive Talk format on its WSMB, (5kW @1350) apparently with no worries about WSMB adversely affecting its established conservative news-talker, 50kW WWL.
As to WBEN, the station remains a strong news-talk station with hefty billing and strong ratings, despite the theorized (after all, who among us has actually seen the Spring '05 25-54 numbers?) losses.
Now about WBEN's listeners. "Hoary" seems to be an appropriate description.
It's all there in Tapscan.
</font>
<hr>
BTW, the imaging voice on KB is one of the better components of the station.
hoooooo-wahhhhhhhh!
B
Bob1370
Guest
> Ain't nuthin' wrong with that! There's still plenty of magic
> hearing a big ol' 50k when you're cruising through the
> Poconos on 6-11 or the Catskills on route 17. Trouble is, ya
> can't sell advertising in the Poconos and Catskills. Outside
> of Neaverth, there ain't nuthin' on KB that draws even
> flies.
Mmmm, over the last few months, there has been growth---the last two books, as the current cast fell into place, showed measurable growth over the previous two, And that's really without much promotional muscle in play. You'd have to conclude that with just a little judicious promotion they could grow a lot more.
> Sadly, Danny ain't lightin' things up in morning drive, but
> the man is a legend and he's always good for a chuckle.
> Enjoy him and KB while you can, because it's more than
> likely Entercom is gonna dump the moldies format and hop on
> the progressive talk bandwagon.
Mmmm, doubt that. The experience at WROC in Rochester, a similar-sized market, shows that after some initial signs of life they've fallen below a 1 share again. Some of that's poor signal, but some of it is that people are falling back into traditional listening habits. 'KB as a personality oldies station, of course, IS a variation on a traditional listening habit that can be more easily rekindled.
> They flipped their 5k station in New Orleans last week.
> They've got that kiloWatt lightbulb on AAR in Rochester and
> the flamethrower in Buffalo could be next.
Doubt it. KB's their technically best AM signal in Buffalo. If I had to guess, the 1400 signal is more likely to be the one that'll flip since progressive talk sells better to younger audiences in the city and inner ring burbs...and WWWS has enough signal to get that done, and is on a downtrend while 'KB is inching up.
The New Orleans signal they flipped had nothing much going for it, and that was also true of WROC.
> Much as the Fields are said to hate democrats, they
> loooooooove money. KB could be next.
>
Nothing's impossible, but you're more likely to see change on a signal that's headed down, than on one that's holding its own or inching up. 'KB fits the latter description.
> hearing a big ol' 50k when you're cruising through the
> Poconos on 6-11 or the Catskills on route 17. Trouble is, ya
> can't sell advertising in the Poconos and Catskills. Outside
> of Neaverth, there ain't nuthin' on KB that draws even
> flies.
Mmmm, over the last few months, there has been growth---the last two books, as the current cast fell into place, showed measurable growth over the previous two, And that's really without much promotional muscle in play. You'd have to conclude that with just a little judicious promotion they could grow a lot more.
> Sadly, Danny ain't lightin' things up in morning drive, but
> the man is a legend and he's always good for a chuckle.
> Enjoy him and KB while you can, because it's more than
> likely Entercom is gonna dump the moldies format and hop on
> the progressive talk bandwagon.
Mmmm, doubt that. The experience at WROC in Rochester, a similar-sized market, shows that after some initial signs of life they've fallen below a 1 share again. Some of that's poor signal, but some of it is that people are falling back into traditional listening habits. 'KB as a personality oldies station, of course, IS a variation on a traditional listening habit that can be more easily rekindled.
> They flipped their 5k station in New Orleans last week.
> They've got that kiloWatt lightbulb on AAR in Rochester and
> the flamethrower in Buffalo could be next.
Doubt it. KB's their technically best AM signal in Buffalo. If I had to guess, the 1400 signal is more likely to be the one that'll flip since progressive talk sells better to younger audiences in the city and inner ring burbs...and WWWS has enough signal to get that done, and is on a downtrend while 'KB is inching up.
The New Orleans signal they flipped had nothing much going for it, and that was also true of WROC.
> Much as the Fields are said to hate democrats, they
> loooooooove money. KB could be next.
>
Nothing's impossible, but you're more likely to see change on a signal that's headed down, than on one that's holding its own or inching up. 'KB fits the latter description.
D
Desi_Bell
Guest
>
> BTW, the imaging voice on KB is one of the better components
> of the station.
> hoooooo-wahhhhhhhh!
>
No comment....
> BTW, the imaging voice on KB is one of the better components
> of the station.
> hoooooo-wahhhhhhhh!
>
No comment....
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