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Springer lukewarm on hometown blowtorch

B

bierkenstock

Guest
From RadioDailyNews.com
<blockquote>
Jerry Springer's radio talk show is hardly setting the city or the country on fire. Likewise the new liberal talk station WCKY-AM (1530), launched in January with Springer as its star attraction, remains barely a blip on the local ratings radar... Read complete article - Cincinnati Post
</blockquote>

Even with a 50kw clear channel signal and a strong local host (Jerry Springer), WCKY 1530 has sluggish ratings with progressive talk, according to this article. Ratings are down since it's first book with progressive talk and down even more compared to the station's previous Real Oldies format. The article reports a small increase in the money demos.

The article neglects to mention the station carries Ed Schultz in PM drive but is hobbled during the crucial AM drive period with AAR's lame "Morning Perdition." Possibly, the station would do better having Springer do a local show in morning drive and then feed his syndicated show to AAR and Springer's other affiliates, while WCKY takes Stephanie Miller. (Thom Hartmann has an arrangement like this in Portland, OR).

Unfortunately, Arbitron defines dayparts in a way that does not correspond to the way talk radio stations schedule programs. Arbitron's midday daypart is 10am to 2pm. It's impossible to say to what extent Springer pulls up Franken and Franken drags down Springer. (Same applies to Rush and Beck.)

Interestingly, Springer seems to do better in Cleveland where is on the same station as Rush.

The article also indicates Franken is moving to Minnesota in January and plans to keep doing his show while he runs for the Senate (which would keep him off the air on two stations in the current station line-up). Since running for statewide office takes a lot of time and travel, we can expect a lot of subs or best-of segments next year. AAR (IMHO) is dumb to go along with this and it will be interesting to see whether stations start putting Hartmann (or Miller or Press on delay, or somebody else - maybe somebody local) into Franken's time slot.
 
> The article also indicates Franken is moving to Minnesota in
> January and plans to keep doing his show while he runs for
> the Senate (which would keep him off the air on two stations
> in the current station line-up).

More important will be what happens if he wins. That will end the Al Franken Show and I don't see Kathryn running it. Does this make Jerry Springer the new "star" of AAR? He's still got better name recognition than Randi Rhodes.
 
> From RadioDailyNews.com
>
> Jerry Springer's radio talk show is hardly setting the city
> or the country on fire. Likewise the new liberal talk
> station WCKY-AM (1530), launched in January with Springer as
> its star attraction, remains barely a blip on the local
> ratings radar... Read complete article - Cincinnati Post
>
>
> Even with a 50kw clear channel signal and a strong local
> host (Jerry Springer), WCKY 1530 has sluggish ratings with
> progressive talk, according to this article. Ratings are
> down since it's first book with progressive talk and down
> even more compared to the station's previous Real Oldies
> format. The article reports a small increase in the money
> demos.
>
> The article neglects to mention the station carries Ed
> Schultz in PM drive but is hobbled during the crucial AM
> drive period with AAR's lame "Morning Perdition." Possibly,
> the station would do better having Springer do a local show
> in morning drive and then feed his syndicated show to AAR
> and Springer's other affiliates, while WCKY takes Stephanie
> Miller. (Thom Hartmann has an arrangement like this in
> Portland, OR).
>
> Unfortunately, Arbitron defines dayparts in a way that does
> not correspond to the way talk radio stations schedule
> programs. Arbitron's midday daypart is 10am to 2pm. It's
> impossible to say to what extent Springer pulls up Franken
> and Franken drags down Springer. (Same applies to Rush and
> Beck.)
>
> Interestingly, Springer seems to do better in Cleveland
> where is on the same station as Rush.

Not that interesting--Cleveland as a market is more liberal than the Cincinnati market. BUT, Springer is WAY DOWN in Cleveland compared to Glenn Beck, who he replaced.

But, maybe this news article will quell some of the "well, they don't have good signals" talk from the AAR-niks. Both WCKY and WTAM are 50kw blowtorches--in fact, WTAM is the premier news talk station in Cleveland. So, is it liberal talk that's the problem, or is it the hosts?

I suggest the latter.
 
> But, maybe this news article will quell some of the "well,
> they don't have good signals" talk from the AAR-niks. Both
> WCKY and WTAM are 50kw blowtorches--in fact, WTAM is the
> premier news talk station in Cleveland. So, is it liberal
> talk that's the problem, or is it the hosts?
>
> I suggest the latter.

Hmm. Once upon a time it was common wisdom in the radio business that it took at least a year for a talk format to catch on. Now, the common wisdom in the anti-AAR crowd is that if a station doesn't immediatly catch fire in its first full book after a flip from oldies or standards to progressive talk, then it's doomed. And in the case of WTAM, you've got a liberal (Springer) sandwiched among a lineup of right-wing hosts. I thought it was also common wisdom that such a lineup can't work -- that you've either got to be all-conservative or all-liberal or all-whatever to be successful in today's marketplace.
 
> From RadioDailyNews.com
>


> The article also indicates Franken is moving to Minnesota in
> January and plans to keep doing his show while he runs for
> the Senate (which would keep him off the air on two stations
> in the current station line-up). Since running for
> statewide office takes a lot of time and travel, we can
> expect a lot of subs or best-of segments next year. AAR
> (IMHO) is dumb to go along with this and it will be
> interesting to see whether stations start putting Hartmann
> (or Miller or Press on delay, or somebody else - maybe
> somebody local) into Franken's time slot.

I believe that Franken's planned Senate campaign will be 2008, not next year, which gives AAR substantial time to prepare for the change. I wouldn't be surprised to see Laura Flanders moving into his spot, but the decision is years away, and the outlook could be completely different at that point.
 
> I believe that Franken's planned Senate campaign will be
> 2008, not next year, which gives AAR substantial time to
> prepare for the change. I wouldn't be surprised to see
> Laura Flanders moving into his spot, but the decision is
> years away, and the outlook could be completely different at
> that point.

Republican Norm Coleman is the senator who Franken would run against, and Coleman's term doesn't end until January 2009 -- so he'll be up for re-election in November 2008, not "next year." And Franken hasn't said he will run -- all he's said is that he's considering it. And of course even if he decides to "run," it's not at all certain that he could even win his party's nomination. It could well be that some other Democrat would be far ahead of Franken in the polls in 2008 and Franken would decide against even trying to get the Dem nomination.
 
> > But, maybe this news article will quell some of the "well,
>
> > they don't have good signals" talk from the AAR-niks.
> Both
> > WCKY and WTAM are 50kw blowtorches--in fact, WTAM is the
> > premier news talk station in Cleveland. So, is it liberal
>
> > talk that's the problem, or is it the hosts?
> >
> > I suggest the latter.
>
> Hmm. Once upon a time it was common wisdom in the radio
> business that it took at least a year for a talk format to
> catch on. Now, the common wisdom in the anti-AAR crowd is
> that if a station doesn't immediatly catch fire in its first
> full book after a flip from oldies or standards to
> progressive talk, then it's doomed. And in the case of
> WTAM, you've got a liberal (Springer) sandwiched among a
> lineup of right-wing hosts. I thought it was also common
> wisdom that such a lineup can't work -- that you've either
> got to be all-conservative or all-liberal or all-whatever to
> be successful in today's marketplace.

If it's good enough to be quoted here that AAR and liberal talk is succeeding in Portland and other places after only a book (or two), then the opposite may also be quoted as rebuttal.

I am anti-AAR because it's bad radio. I'm not anti-liberal talk. I happen to like Ed Schultz alot, and ditto for Lionel. If done in a good radio way, with decent hosts who can entertain, then I think it's good for listeners and good for political discourse to have lib talk.

I never said anything was doomed. Is AAR doomed--yes, because it's a bad operation. Is liberal talk doomed? No, because within that wide array of discussion, there are lots of talented hosts. Some are on AAR.

Jerry Springer isn't one of them.

And as for WTAM: here's what he's sandwiched between.

5am-9am: Wills and Coleman. A drive time show, with full news every 30 minutes, traffic and weather every 10 minutes, sports at 20 after and 20 til the hour, news updates at 15/45, Wall Street Journal Report at 50, plus commercials. Where's the right wing?

11.30am-12pm: Mid-Day Report. A full 1/2 hour of news, sports, traffic, weather, WSJ Report. Done by WTAM reporters and anchors.

12.00pm-3pm: Rush Limbaugh. Ok, HE'S right wing. There's the first one.
 
> If it's good enough to be quoted here that AAR and liberal
> talk is succeeding in Portland and other places after only a
> book (or two), then the opposite may also be quoted as
> rebuttal.

My point was that it often takes a year or more for a drastic switch from music to talk to work. KPOJ's AAR + Schultz programming was a success almost from the start, 16 months ago, but that was an unusual situation. WABC in New York struggled for years after switching from music to talk. WCKY switched in January and there's been only one full book since then.

> 12.00pm-3pm: Rush Limbaugh. Ok, HE'S right wing. There's
> the first one.

And not the last. My point was that WTAM has long been known as a conservative talk station and is still overwhelmingly conservative. Drop a lone liberal into the lineup, replacing a conservative, and you can't expect much, especially after only a few months.

<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by Scribbler on 08/16/05 06:13 PM.</FONT></P>
 
> > If it's good enough to be quoted here that AAR and liberal
>
> > talk is succeeding in Portland and other places after only
> a
> > book (or two), then the opposite may also be quoted as
> > rebuttal.
>
> My point was that it often takes a year or more for a
> drastic switch from music to talk to work. KPOJ's AAR +
> Schultz programming was a success almost from the start, 16
> months ago, but that was an unusual situation. WABC in New
> York struggled for years after switching from music to talk.
> WCKY switched in January and there's been only one full book
> since then.
>
> > 12.00pm-3pm: Rush Limbaugh. Ok, HE'S right wing. There's
> > the first one.
>
> And not the last. My point was that WTAM has long been
> known as a conservative talk station and is still
> overwhelmingly conservative. Drop a lone liberal into the
> lineup, replacing a conservative, and you can't expect much,
> especially after only a few months.

WAS long known. After 3pm is Mike Trivisonno, whose known views are pro-gambling, anti-tax, pro-worker, anti-idiocy. And that's when he's not talking sports. He's been PM drive since 1997.

At 7pm it's either Indians baseball, Cavs basketball, or sports talk until 11pm.

11pm-5am is Coast to Coast AM with whoever it is now.

Weekends: Saturday 6am-9am: Bob Becker (a moderate-liberal)
Gardening, Home Repair, etc. to noon.

12pm-3pm: The Weekend, with Mike McConnell (ok, another conservative)
3pm-6pm: Sports talk (or baseball--if baseball, sports talk until nighttime)
Overnights weekends--Coast to Coast AM Weekend

Sunday: Obligatory religious programming AMs, sports Sunday afternoons.

8pm-11pm: Art McKoy, President of Black on Black Crime, Inc. He's a liberal, kids.

11pm-1am: Drudge (ok, there's another one).

So, while you may have this old idea that WTAM is conservative, it used to be. But within the past two to three years, it's become decidedly POLITICAL, yes. But not one party or ideology. Oh, and this is only when it's not sports season: which is rare, because WTAM is flagship for all three major teams.
 
> case of WTAM, you've got a liberal (Springer) sandwiched among a
> lineup of right-wing hosts. I thought it was also common
> wisdom that such a lineup can't work -- that you've either
> got to be all-conservative or all-liberal or all-whatever to
> be successful in today's marketplace.

That's not an excuse. That's nonsense from the AAR crowd. CC doesn't care if Rush sings Latvian polka for three hours if it delivers results, even being sandwiched between talkradio. Saying Jerry Springer should get a pass because he's a liberal on a conservative station (outside of Rush, please show me a real conservative on WTAM) is unacceptable. He has to rise to the challenge or he'll get canned. Kevin Metheny (allegedly) doesn't care about ideology (just his hatred for Glenn Beck), he cares about the billing numbers he reports to San Antonio. And he can't submit an addendum explaining declining sales with "We just wanted a liberal show".
 
> And not the last. My point was that WTAM has long been
> known as a conservative talk station and is still
> overwhelmingly conservative.

No, it's known as a "News/talk" station. A talk station with a large focus on news. If you assume "talk" to mean conservative, you may be going along with prevailing wisdom, but it is your assumption only and not necessarily the truth.

Please show me where the "overwhelming conservative" is. None really in the morning. Glenn Beck was conservative but certainly not to the extent that Pawn Vanity is, and his show was always regarded as entertainment along with ideology. Rush is indeed very conservative, and has become an institution. Wouldn't call him some radical necon anymore. Mike Trivissono spends time eating on the air, talking about sports, and whining about pointless local issues. Oh yeah, and letting Kim chime in every here and there with her mindless drivel.

Are the Indians conservative? The Cavs? Kevin Keane's show is sports, not political. And Coast to Coast...

On the weekend, you've got an array of home improvement and gardening shows, local sports shows, and the newly brokered Mutual Fund Show. I'll concede Mike McConnell for two hours (whatever audience hasn't been driven away by Adam Bold), and Drudge (for whoever's up).

> Drop a lone liberal into the
> lineup, replacing a conservative, and you can't expect much,
> especially after only a few months.

I'll give your guy an extra bonus... he'll NEVER be able to expect much. On a monster talk station, really the only one in the market, you should get instant traction. If you can't, they shouldn't have replaced Glenn Beck. If Dr. Laura couldn't have gotten more traction that whoever she replaced (Lee Kirk??), she shouldn't and wouldn't have put her on. How long before Triv took Jeff & Flash's crap ratings and turned them into gold?

It's not that I'm against liberal talk, although I am a big fan of Beck's (as CC Cleveland should have been with his performance). What I'm saying is that a reactionary, personally motivated move like this is ridiculous when the product is an untested buffoon with no measurable support. While I don't think she would fit either, I'd be happy to see Stephanie Miller on in this spot. While listeners might not agree with her, they'd be entertained. While money trumps all, it does seem to me that a quasi-heritage station like WTAM has an obligation, being the only player in town, to select wisely when deciding which of America's 6,000 talk shows it decides to put on its air. And Springer is a 0 in the talent department.
 
> > The article also indicates Franken is moving to Minnesota
> in
> > January and plans to keep doing his show while he runs for
>
> > the Senate (which would keep him off the air on two
> stations
> > in the current station line-up).
>
> More important will be what happens if he wins. That will
> end the Al Franken Show and I don't see Kathryn running it.
> Does this make Jerry Springer the new "star" of AAR? He's
> still got better name recognition than Randi Rhodes.

Jerry Springer will have run for office himself by then. And for noon-3, there are plenty of respectable liberal talkers doing local shows now.

That is, of course, if AAR is still around then. ;)
 
> I'll give your guy an extra bonus... he'll NEVER be able to
> expect much. On a monster talk station, really the only one
> in the market, you should get instant traction. If you
> can't, they shouldn't have replaced Glenn Beck.

He's not "my guy." I don't like him and don't listen to him. My point is that you can't expect to replace a right-winger with a liberal and get instant ratings. The Beck fans certainly won't listen to him and it will take time to build an audience for Springer, if he ever gets one. I really don't care if he
succeeds or not, but he's being pushed by Clear Channel, not those wacky liberals at Air America, who apparently caved under CC pressure to put him on their feed. And as I understand it, the Springer feed for WTAM comes from Clear Channel, not AAR.
 
> He's not "my guy." I don't like him and don't listen to
> him. My point is that you can't expect to replace a
> right-winger with a liberal and get instant ratings. The
> Beck fans certainly won't listen to him and it will take
> time to build an audience for Springer, if he ever gets one.
> I really don't care if he
> succeeds or not, but he's being pushed by Clear Channel, not
> those wacky liberals at Air America, who apparently caved
> under CC pressure to put him on their feed. And as I
> understand it, the Springer feed for WTAM comes from Clear
> Channel, not AAR.

It is a gray area I suppose, but WTAM is listed (much to their dismay I'm sure) on AAR's site as an affiliate.

My point was that if it "takes time" to build a new audience, why waste time? You had an audience to begin with... why waste 6-12 months building the same audience again!
 
Pig Virus

Kevin Metheny is the program director Howard Stern called "Pig Virus" when he was on WNBC. In the movie "Private Parts," the character based on Metheney was called "Pig Vomit."

How do you know he hates Beck? And why does he hate Beck?


> Kevin
> Metheny (allegedly) doesn't care about ideology (just his
> hatred for Glenn Beck), he cares about the billing numbers
> he reports to San Antonio. And he can't submit an addendum
> explaining declining sales with "We just wanted a liberal
> show".
>
 
I think the prevailing wisdom is that Jerry Springer is not catching fire. Many AAR nuts hated when unfiltered switched to Springer and have never adopted Springer as their own. Schultz is a car wreck for liberal talk. He, like Colmes, needs to be put on a (semi-)conservative channel that fancies balance- not a progressive talk channel.

If WCKY played Stephanie Miller (which doesn't upset any AAR people, as they dislike Springer), and played the rest of the AAR line-up, everything from soup to nuts, live, their ratings would jump.

The only program on AAR that needs a major overhaul is Morning Sedition. That being said, morning programs are pretty competitive, you probably won't be taking many people away from the FM's and TV so if cost is an issue you should probably run the show and wait for Steph to pump up ratings at 9. Sooner or later AAR will put Maddow on the Show and drop one or both of the guys.

Oh, and drop the sports! Jeesh!

> From RadioDailyNews.com
>
> Jerry Springer's radio talk show is hardly setting the city
> or the country on fire. Likewise the new liberal talk
> station WCKY-AM (1530), launched in January with Springer as
> its star attraction, remains barely a blip on the local
> ratings radar... Read complete article - Cincinnati Post
>
>
> Even with a 50kw clear channel signal and a strong local
> host (Jerry Springer), WCKY 1530 has sluggish ratings with
> progressive talk, according to this article. Ratings are
> down since it's first book with progressive talk and down
> even more compared to the station's previous Real Oldies
> format. The article reports a small increase in the money
> demos.
>
> The article neglects to mention the station carries Ed
> Schultz in PM drive but is hobbled during the crucial AM
> drive period with AAR's lame "Morning Perdition." Possibly,
> the station would do better having Springer do a local show
> in morning drive and then feed his syndicated show to AAR
> and Springer's other affiliates, while WCKY takes Stephanie
> Miller. (Thom Hartmann has an arrangement like this in
> Portland, OR).
>
> Unfortunately, Arbitron defines dayparts in a way that does
> not correspond to the way talk radio stations schedule
> programs. Arbitron's midday daypart is 10am to 2pm. It's
> impossible to say to what extent Springer pulls up Franken
> and Franken drags down Springer. (Same applies to Rush and
> Beck.)
>
> Interestingly, Springer seems to do better in Cleveland
> where is on the same station as Rush.
>
> The article also indicates Franken is moving to Minnesota in
> January and plans to keep doing his show while he runs for
> the Senate (which would keep him off the air on two stations
> in the current station line-up). Since running for
> statewide office takes a lot of time and travel, we can
> expect a lot of subs or best-of segments next year. AAR
> (IMHO) is dumb to go along with this and it will be
> interesting to see whether stations start putting Hartmann
> (or Miller or Press on delay, or somebody else - maybe
> somebody local) into Franken's time slot.
>
 
> > He's not "my guy." I don't like him and don't listen to
> > him. My point is that you can't expect to replace a
> > right-winger with a liberal and get instant ratings. The
> > Beck fans certainly won't listen to him and it will take
> > time to build an audience for Springer, if he ever gets
> one.
> > I really don't care if he
> > succeeds or not, but he's being pushed by Clear Channel,
> not
> > those wacky liberals at Air America, who apparently caved
> > under CC pressure to put him on their feed. And as I
> > understand it, the Springer feed for WTAM comes from Clear
>
> > Channel, not AAR.
>
> It is a gray area I suppose, but WTAM is listed (much to
> their dismay I'm sure) on AAR's site as an affiliate.
>
> My point was that if it "takes time" to build a new
> audience, why waste time? You had an audience to begin
> with... why waste 6-12 months building the same audience
> again!
>
Because Clear Channel made a deal with Springer, who wants as much exposure as possible in Ohio, where he still has political aspirations.
 
> > And not the last. My point was that WTAM has long been
> > known as a conservative talk station and is still
> > overwhelmingly conservative.
>
> No, it's known as a "News/talk" station. A talk station with
> a large focus on news. If you assume "talk" to mean
> conservative, you may be going along with prevailing wisdom,
> but it is your assumption only and not necessarily the
> truth.
>
> Please show me where the "overwhelming conservative" is.

Here's what one blogger said, without mentioning Rush Limbaugh:

When it's not broadcasting a game or talking about sports – which is rare considering the amount of traffic and weather breaks WTAM takes – the station has a definite conservative slant. Its morning show, "Wills and Coleman in the Morning," is really a poorly executed "classy" morning show covering for Republican talking points. Progressive guests are typically grilled with tough questions, while conservative visitors are given the red-carpet treatment. Typical AM radio talk, sadly.

The biggest local offender, however, is Mike Trivisonno, whose show airs weekdays in the coveted afternoon drive time slot. Masquerading as a sports call-in show, Trivisonno's (Triv for short) program is nothing more than a thinly-veiled soapbox for Triv's hateful, ignorant views. Billed as Mr. Know-it-All, Triv takes pride in being a loudmouth, opinionated boor. Recent "takes" include wanting those with HIV working at restaurants to be appropriately "labeled," calling his African American producer a (BLEEP) in jest, saying foster parents scammed the system to take advantage of monthly stipends for special-needs children and generally blaming the poor for their condition, telling poverty-stricken women to stop having children, calling the poor lazy. Politicians (typically Democrats). Women. Homosexuals. All frequent Triv targets.

You know, basic right wing points of view. But, of course, Triv never explicitly divulges his party affiliation; he just claims to be an "average guy," an oaf who sits around all night playing, as he admits, online poker. An oaf who consistently makes sexist remarks on the air, raving about his interns' bodies, going so far as to have one advertise his show one afternoon outside the station in a bikini.
 
Springer is actually competant but he can't shed his old Talk Show host Image so it is best to let him go gracefully ASAP. The sooner CC wakes up and drops (or rather has AAR drop) his program the better. And when will AAR get a contract set up with Steph? Democracy Radio should be ready to move her out somewhere permanently like they did with Schultz.

> Because Clear Channel made a deal with Springer, who wants
> as much exposure as possible in Ohio, where he still has
> political aspirations.
>
 
>
> Here's what one blogger said, without mentioning Rush
> Limbaugh:

I'm so tired of hearing about bloggers. Certainly, some folks like OA have blogs as an extension of their expertise. But typically, it seems these are just "oafs" (apparently like Triv) sitting around with nothing better to do. New York Times rejects you might say. Avon Lake Press rejects, perhaps. Just like no one in our industry takes podcasters with two listeners as serious competition, this blogger thing is wearing me out...

> The biggest local offender, however, is Mike Trivisonno,
> whose show airs weekdays in the coveted afternoon drive time
> slot. Masquerading as a sports call-in show, Trivisonno's
> (Triv for short) program is nothing more than a
> thinly-veiled soapbox for Triv's hateful, ignorant views.
> Billed as Mr. Know-it-All, Triv takes pride in being a
> loudmouth, opinionated boor. Recent "takes" include wanting
> those with HIV working at restaurants to be appropriately
> "labeled," calling his African American producer a (BLEEP)
> in jest, saying foster parents scammed the system to take
> advantage of monthly stipends for special-needs children and
> generally blaming the poor for their condition, telling
> poverty-stricken women to stop having children, calling the
> poor lazy. Politicians (typically Democrats). Women.
> Homosexuals. All frequent Triv targets.
>
> You know, basic right wing points of view. But, of course,
> Triv never explicitly divulges his party affiliation; he
> just claims to be an "average guy," an oaf who sits around
> all night playing, as he admits, online poker. An oaf who
> consistently makes sexist remarks on the air, raving about
> his interns' bodies, going so far as to have one advertise
> his show one afternoon outside the station in a bikini.

Ummm... isn't this how most red-bloode men think? Women in bikinis... he must be a neocon!
 
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