Standards/Oldies Survey for KZQX

[michael hagerty]

The trouble with music after the midsixties is that obscenity was legalized. Thus, most music from then on advocates free sex, adultery, and drugs. While 95% of the public is in favor of this, there should be something for the other 5%.

Actually, it is nothing new. Most popular songs are about love and most likely sex. The even got into drugs. They were just a little more discrete about it, or perhaps the audience was a bit more naive.

Both.

20s and 30s blues could be shocking even by today's standards.

Cole Porter wrote some remarkably racy material for the time, much of it wildly popular in the 30s, 40s and 50s.

And apart from Prince's "Let's Pretend We're Married", we're usually left to our imaginations when it comes to the marital status of the protagonist in a song. Cole Porter wasn't marred when he wrote any of his material, but Paul McCartney may have been singing "Why Don't We Do It In The Road" to Mrs. McCartney (Linda), and given the size of McCartney's sheep ranch, no one would be watching them.

By the way, the Supreme Court ruling on obscenity that allowed pornography to be sold legally in the United States was 1969. I'm betting a lot of what you find offensive pre-dates that.

 

[ronald54321]

Obscenity was legalized for broadcasting in the late 60's, but for records it was a bit earlier. Most of what you mention was not very mainstream. Mainstream was generally "Stardust" and "Dear Hearts and Gentle People." If you and Chuck can't tell the difference between this and the f*ck songs of today, that doesn't say much. I doubt you could tell the difference between "Meet Me In Saint Louis" and "Deep Throat." There's always bad stuff, but the percentages are much worse today. Why don't you play Bessie Smith's "My Kitchen Man" on QX-FM? Maybe the version sung by a male group in Dixieland style.

 

[michael hagerty]

Obscenity was legalized for broadcasting in the late 60's, but for records it was a bit earlier. Most of what you mention was not very mainstream. Mainstream was generally "Stardust" and "Dear Hearts and Gentle People." If you and Chuck can't tell the difference between this and the f*ck songs of today, that doesn't say much. I doubt you could tell the difference between "Meet Me In Saint Louis" and "Deep Throat." There's always bad stuff, but the percentages are much worse today. Why don't you play Bessie Smith's "My Kitchen Man" on QX-FM? Maybe the version sung by a male group in Dixieland style.

Oh, dear.

First, obscenity is not legal for broadcasting. The landmark FCC vs. Pacifica case comes the closest. In it, the United States Supreme Court ruled that the material broadcast (George Carlin's "Seven Dirty Words" stand-up routine) was "indecent but not obscene".

That was 1978, and the FCC followed it up by creating the "Safe Harbor" time period (between 10PM and 6AM) in which "indecent" material may be broadcast. That was 1987.

So...not the late 1960s for broadcasting, and not...well, ever.

In fact, obscenity itself, broadcast or otherwise is still, illegal. The trouble has been in defining it. Attempts have been made, largely through court cases in conservative states, to set precedent, but when, in the late 80s, a jury in Phoenix, Arizona found a porn flick called "Rambone" "disgusting but not obscene", those have pretty well ended.

As for the obscurity of the material I selected in my examples, Cole Porter was every bit as popular as Hoagy Carmichael in the same time period.

As for your allegation that most of the music recorded since the legalization of obscenity in the mid-sixties (which never happened) advocates free sex, adultery and drugs...stay tuned.

 

[michael hagerty]

The trouble with music after the midsixties is that obscenity was legalized. Thus, most music from then on advocates free sex, adultery, and drugs. While 95% of the public is in favor of this, there should be something for the other 5%.

Okay, let's take this a piece at a time.

We've already established that obscenity has never been legalized.

But has most music from the mid-sixties on advocated free sex, adultery and drugs? And is 95% of the public in favor of this?

If that's true, then those should be some of the most popular songs out there...so let's look at every song to hit #1 in 1970 on the Billboard Hot 100. A year after Woodstock...the year of Kent State...this should be filthy and disgusting.

Ready?

B.J. Thomas: Raindrops Keep Fallin' On My Head

The Jackson 5: I Want You Back

Shocking Blue: Venus

Sly & The Family Stone: Thank You (Falletin Me Be Mice Elf Agin)

Simon & Garfunkel: Bridge Over Troubled Water

The Beatles: Let It Be

The Jackson 5: ABC

Guess Who: American Woman

Ray Stevens: Everything Is Beautiful

Beatles: The Long and Winding Road

The Jackson 5: The Love You Save

Three Dog Night: Mama Told Me Not To Come

Carpenters: (They Long To Be) Close To You

Bread: Make It With You

Edwin Starr: War

Diana Ross: Ain't No Mountain High Enough

Neil Diamond: Cracklin' Rosie

The Jackson 5: I'll Be There

The Partridge Family: I Think I Love You

Smokey Robinson & The Miracles: Tears Of A Clown

George Harrison: My Sweet Lord


Free sex? "Make It With You" if you take the slang term "Make It" and apply it in spite of the lyrics:

No, you don't know me well,
'N' ev'ry little thing only time will tell,
But you believe the things that I do.
And we'll see it through.
Life can be short or long,
Love can be right or wrong,
And if I chose the one
I'd like to help me through,
I'd like to make it with you


So....no advocation of free sex.

And...no advocation of adultery (check the country charts, though...way back before the midsixties, even)

That leaves us with advocation of drugs.

Sly may have been on drugs when he wrote "Thank You (Falletin Me Be Mice Elf Agin), but it doesn't actually advocate using them.

"Mama Told Me (Not To Come)" certainly suggests drug use, but the protagonist is scared, digsusted and wants to leave.

And that leaves "Cracklin Rosie", but only if we expand drugs to include alcohol (see earlier comment about the country charts). I suppose the line "gonna have me a time with a poor man's lady" could be construed as adultery if you're not paying attention, but Neil's using poetic license to note that sparkling rose' was not a drink of choice for the wealthy.

 

[michael hagerty]

I doubt you could tell the difference between "Meet Me In Saint Louis" and "Deep Throat."

And finally, Ronald...of course I can tell the difference between "Meet Me In Saint Louis" and "Deep Throat".

It's "Deep Throat" and "Beach Blanket Bingo" I have trouble with because I'm pretty sure Annette performs Funicello on Frankie Avalon.

 

[Chuck]

<snip> If you and Chuck can't tell the difference between this and the f*ck songs of today, that doesn't say much. I doubt you could tell the difference between "Meet Me In Saint Louis" and "Deep Throat." There's always bad stuff, but the percentages are much worse today. <snip>

I assure you that I know the difference. I suppose I should be offended by your post, but I was merely stating a fact. I suspect we actually agree on the state of today's music. I have no use for a lot of it with it's extremely vulgar and debasing lyrics. I'm no prude, but you will not find that kind of stuff being played on either of my radio stations....ever.

I think the big problem in today's popular music is the anger and hatefulness it advocates. That trend started in earnest during the early 1990's and has become much worse as time has passed. Pop music has always reflected the society of it's time. The issue is a much bigger than just what songs are being played on many radio stations. It appears that the concept of respect and dignity is missing in many people's lives. I'm not sure how you fix that, but I don't think music is the real culprit. It is just a mirror reflecting today's reality.

The good news is there are some very talented modern musicians who do produce good music, even if it may not be to your (or my) taste. I remember my parents (and probably yours) were not happy that I liked The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, The Doors and numerous others. Even Chuck Berry was considered to be lewd in his day. It's all pretty tame by today's standards. And yeah, a lot if it had to do with sex and drugs. The difference is, it wasn't in your face about it, and a lot of it had memorable melodies.

But you have to be honest. A lot of the music that that we call "Standards" or "Oldies" is also about sex, adultery and drugs. You may have to read between the lines to figure it out, but it is there if you just listen. Sometimes it is really obvious, sometimes it is a little more subtle. Some song writers were just a little more clever than others. Cole Porter comes to mind. The "double entendre" has been alive and well in music for a very long time.

It is evident that you don't like the vulgar lyrics of many songs. I agree, but this is an odd place to have that discussion. Maybe yo should post your feelings on eh Rap & Hip-Hop Forum. Unfortunately, there isn't much either you or I can do about the state of today's music, except change to a different station if something offends you. That is why there is a tuning knob and an on-off switch on your radio. If nobody listened to this stuff, radio stations wouldn't play it. Evidently, people do listen, thus you get what the audience seems to want. Radio is a business and playing to very small audiences is not always the wisest business plan.

I operate two commercial over-the-air radio stations that offer music that shouldn't offend you. That is not a path to riches in broadcasting. My stations could make much more money by catering to the lowest common denominator. I think I'm doing my part. What are you doing?

 

[ronald54321]

Most Cole Porter is "Don't Fence Me In" and "True Love". I was talking to the program director of WMAL in the early seventies. He said things were getting so bad that they could play "Cold Susan" on the air and not get any complaints. He didn't of course, but he was making a point. He was very concerned about what was going on in the music business. Also he said he had two teenaged daughters, and he thanked God they didn't like the music that was coming out. Jackson Weaver, of Harden and Weaver, was very concerned as well. There is a huge difference in pre mid sixties and post mid sixties music. Obscenity may not have been legalized in broadcasting then, but it might as well have been, since standards were lowered. That's why it wasn't until the seventies that underground hippie oriented stations could broadcast. I'm not going to say much more, but I think the adult album market of the 1950's and 60's, with it's "Moon River" and " Charade" is a lot better than the stuff we have today.

Also, by the late Sixties, only about half the songs in the top 40 were clean enough to play on radio.
That's why standards had to be lowered so that they could be played.

 

[michael hagerty]

There is a huge difference in pre mid sixties and post mid sixties music. Obscenity may not have been legalized in broadcasting then, but it might as well have been, since standards were lowered. That's why it wasn't until the seventies that underground hippie oriented stations could broadcast.

You mean like KMPX in San Francisco, which launched in April of 1967?

Or WNEW-FM, New York, in October, 1967?

Or KPPC, Pasadena, in November of 1967?

Or WMMR, Philadelphia, WBCN, Boston, KSAN, San Francisco and KMET, Los Angeles, in the summer of 1968?

"Underground hippie oriented stations" largely got steamrollered by more tightly formatted album rock stations like ABC's WPLJ, KLOS, WRIF and WDVE by 1971, except in San Francisco, where KSAN had become an institution and the more structured approach of KSFX never caught on.

 

[Chuck]

Actually, the "Underground Hippie" oriented stations were a result of the FCC deciding that AM stations could no longer simulcast full time on their FM counterparts. Radio, being the business that it is, was looking for cheap programming to fill that void. It was a plus that it could also attract a younger demographic.

At the time, there was a lot of music hitting the market that just wasn't suitable for Top 40 air play. It had nothing to do with lyrics, but had a lot to do with how long the song was. Six or seven minute songs with a two minute drum solo, simply did not fit on Top 40 or Middle of the Road radio. They simply did not leave enough time to play the commercials. Thus the "Progressive Radio" movement was born to fill the void. College kids were happy to work at these stations for minimum wage, which If I recall, was $1.65 per hour. I was one of them. It was the cool thing to do, and there was an ample supply of ready and willing talent. From the station owner's point of view, it was strictly about business. Nothing new there.

 

[vchimpanzee]

Six or seven minute songs with a two minute drum solo, simply did not fit on Top 40 or Middle of the Road radio.

Charlotte, NC has a station that is as close to standards as you could probably get away with these days. The Carpenters and Simon & Garfunkel do show up, but they're the exception rather than the rule.

Once I heard Benny Goodman's "Sing Sing Sing"--in a version exactly as you described.

 

[michael hagerty]

Actually, the "Underground Hippie" oriented stations were a result of the FCC deciding that AM stations could no longer simulcast full time on their FM counterparts. Radio, being the business that it is, was looking for cheap programming to fill that void. It was a plus that it could also attract a younger demographic.

At the time, there was a lot of music hitting the market that just wasn't suitable for Top 40 air play. It had nothing to do with lyrics, but had a lot to do with how long the song was. Six or seven minute songs with a two minute drum solo, simply did not fit on Top 40 or Middle of the Road radio. They simply did not leave enough time to play the commercials. Thus the "Progressive Radio" movement was born to fill the void. College kids were happy to work at these stations for minimum wage, which If I recall, was $1.65 per hour. I was one of them. It was the cool thing to do, and there was an ample supply of ready and willing talent. From the station owner's point of view, it was strictly about business. Nothing new there.

The actual origin story of the first of these is a bit different. Tom Donahue was a big-time Top 40 DJ in Philadelphia in the 50s and San Francisco in the 60s. He got tired of the Top 40 thing and quit KYA. It occurred to him that the music he liked, the interesting things that were being created and performed in San Francisco, had no outlet for airplay.

Tom grabbed a phone and a phone book. He was looking for an operator desperate enough to try something very, very different. When he got to KMPX, he found the phone had been disconnected and knew he had his station. He went down in person, pitched it to the Owner/GM who was in dire straits and KMPX and freeform radio was born. Six months later, that Owner/GM bought KPPC-FM, Pasadena.

Within a year, the Owner/GM was trying to tinker with the format. The staff went out on strike, Tom took a meeting with Metromedia and put together a deal to move his non-format and staff to KSAN in San Francisco. In L.A., Metromedia would only take former Top 40 legend B. Mitchell Reed from KPPC...they automated the rest of the day for three years. Donahue swallowed hard and took the deal, knowing it was a much more secure situation in the long term.

 

[Chuck]

Six or seven minute songs with a two minute drum solo, simply did not fit on Top 40 or Middle of the Road radio.

Charlotte, NC has a station that is as close to standards as you could probably get away with these days. The Carpenters and Simon & Garfunkel do show up, but they're the exception rather than the rule.

Once I heard Benny Goodman's "Sing Sing Sing"--in a version exactly as you described.

Actually, if you listen to my Standards station, www.qx-fm.com you will hear all of the above. At one time it was strict standards; Sinatra, Dean Martin, Benny Goodman, etc., but times have changed. Expanding the play list greatly improved our listenership. It is hard to argue with reality.

 

[davideduardo]

Actually, the "Underground Hippie" oriented stations were a result of the FCC deciding that AM stations could no longer simulcast full time on their FM counterparts. Radio, being the business that it is, was looking for cheap programming to fill that void. It was a plus that it could also attract a younger demographic.

That is why the format spread to quite a few markets. But the explanation of how the format was created is what Mr. Hagerty describes in his post.

We even have things like WOR-FM's "Rock in Stereo" well ahead of the FCC simulcast mandate...

 

[EZway2go]

If you want to hear KZQX, we had to set up a new web site for the purpose. it's www.qx-fm.com

I listened yesterday morning via TuneIn on my Kindle Fire while I worked on my taxes. A real nice mix in my opinion—and nice background music if you're trying to concentrate. Interspersed among true standards were some forgotten classic MOR titles like Paul Stookey's "Wedding Song" and the old Match Game theme song "Swingin' Safari" (although I couldn't tell whether it was Bert Kaempfert or Billy Vaughn).

I heard another pleasant surprise, too... at first I thought I was listening to the early '60s instrumental hit "Apache" by Jorgen Ingmann, which still gets somewhat moderate airplay now and then. But the longer it played I thought to myself, "Wait a minute—that's not 'Apache.' That's 'Keem-O-Sabe' by The Electric Indian!" I know I haven't heard that one on the radio—probably not since it was a hit in the summer of 1969. That's the kind of song that gets me to want to come back to a station for more—not the same old tried-and-true consultant-approved schmaltz from the '70s . You never know what the next surprise might be.

 

[Chuck]

You are right. It is Electric Indian. Swingin' Safari is the Bert Kaempfert version, but we do have both...