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STAR 107.9

D

Dirty_Harry

Guest
Star 107.9 might still be on the air if its playlist were as good as what I'm hearing on 91.5 WHKC today.

Rock with a beat ... and no hard-edge ghetto music!

Why can't current music be as listenable?

Great playlist!
 
Playlist had little to do with Star's demise.

Do some poking around and you'll see it wasn't a programming issue.
 
GaryTheThompson said:
Playlist had little to do with Star's demise.

I don't know about the internal politics, I just know Star 107.9 had a fairly tight playlist and they were fairly repetitive. Nobody wants to listen to Bel Biv Devoe every other day. That was the same problem with WCOL's incarnation as Oldies 1230, IMO. How many times can you hear "Ring Around Your Neck" in the same week before you flip the switch off?

God I miss the sound they're playing today.
 
xiradiodotcom said:
As much as many would enjoy it, I don't think 80s will be on a non-comm signal for any amount of time.

I know its too good to last, but I am enjoying this.

Maybe Case has something creative up his sleeve? Radio-U seems to stay afloat playing just music. Why not a non-comm? They're allowed getting sponsorships like WOSU gets, they just can't play commercials. Maybe there's enough money in that to pay a staff and to pay Case a hefty salary ... and listeners flock to hear 80's music mostly commercial free?

Like I said, this is essentially what Radio-U does and the University of Akron Top-40 station ... why not here?
 
I used to listen to Star online from Indiana. It was a solid station and programmed how many of the 80s copycats should have. I say copycats because Star was the 1st all 80s station in the country predating even Chicago's WXXY by a few months (WXXY used to claim they were the 1st). The playlist may have been a little tighter than it should, but they played a lot more music than some of the 80s stations around the country that leaned heavily toward 80s rock. There's only so much Tom Petty, The Police, and U2 someone can take. They're great bands, but they only share a part of the musical history that is the 80s.

I know this point gets stomped to death on this message board, but if Star (and WXXY in Chicago for that matter) would have been on a stick much closer to town, they would have been a lot more successful because they would have had better reach across the entire metro. It wouldn't have been number 1, but it could have been a #2 or #3 buy in the 25-44 demo. Honestly, I really can't blame Star for flipping to oldies. The format hole was there in Columbus, 107.9 was doing an experimental format, oldies was a proven winner, and the hertiage station forefitted the format. Given all of those points, I would have done the same thing.
 
xiradiodotcom said:
As much as many would enjoy it, I don't think 80s will be on a non-comm signal for any amount of time.

Doesn't the fact that WHKC is licensed to Case as "CHRISTIAN BROADCASTING SERVICES, INC." suggest it will end up with a religious format? Or perhaps he's just planning to spin it for a profit?? The non-comm realm is kind of a mystery to me.
 
Allow me to address a few Star 107.9 facts, as I was the guy who programmed it for most of it's run.

We had signal issues, no kidding. With a stick 7-8 miles north of the northern I-270 beltway, and only
6000 watts of power, we were lucky to get the signal we had. I agree the numbers would have been
a bit higher had we had better coverage.

We had absolutely no music research, until almost the very end. In fact, I was given a choice...research, or have money to promote the station. Promotion in the highly contested Columbus market was an absolute necessity. I chose promotions, and relyed on consultants and advisors to help me on the music. We were throwing darts. Some of them hit. Some of them clearly missed. Remember...at the time, nobody knew for sure how to program a station like this.

About a year before the station's demise, I finally got some online music testing softwear, and we began testing our main library. The results were interesting, to say the least. The rock songs (Mellencamp, Greg Kihn, Bon Jovi, Def Leppard, etc) tested very well. The dance product (Janet, Michael, Shannon, Expose, etc)
tested very poorly. Only a few Prince titles and a couple of Madonna titles did well. So, with the assistance
of Pete Dylan (who was then advising me...in fact, we were collaborating on the music at that point), we
leaned the station toward the rock end and only played the Dance product on club mix shows and the Friday Night 80's party. This started the station back on the path of better ratings.

Unfortunately, by then, we were sold...and I eventually discovered the new owner had one foot in bankruptcy court and was hoping for new financing which never arrived. I eventually got tired of begging for money to pay Selector, so we wouldn't have to program the dilapidated Audisk computer by hand, and
took a new job.

Nonetheless, whatever anyone thinks of the station, we had a very hardworking staff of young (and even a
few not as young people) who dedicated themselves to making the station work in good numbers and bad.
The station debuted #10 12 plus, which for a 6 KW station so far out of town was a miracle almost in itself.
Many times, the station was in the Low-Mid 2 share range 12 plus (right around CD 101, which took some
hits from us during that time)...the last book was the station's highest (right after our switch to a more rock sound)...in the mid 3's, but I had left by the time it came out. We took about 4 million dollars in advertising
revenue out of the market in about two and a half years. The station's cume audience hung around 100,000
listeners a week for the majority of its' run.

The format change to oldies occured not because of any "failure" with the format, it was simple economics.
Ad buyers "understood" oldies a lot better at the time than "80's Hits". It was an easier sell. When WBNS got out of the oldies market, the hole in the market was obvious and I don't blame the powers that be for making the change. Of course today, oldies is an even harder "sell" than we had, but that was then and this is now.

I consider the station to have been a reasonable success, given all that was stacked up against us. The station had its' fans and its' critics. There's a lot of things I would do differently if I could do it all over again. But, as a few posters have indicated here, to know the full story of what went on at WXST-FM, like the old saying goes, "you had to be there".
 
KevinFodor said:
About a year before the station's demise, I finally got some online music testing softwear, and we began testing our main library. The results were interesting, to say the least. The rock songs (Mellencamp, Greg Kihn, Bon Jovi, Def Leppard, etc) tested very well. The dance product (Janet, Michael, Shannon, Expose, etc) tested very poorly. Only a few Prince titles and a couple of Madonna titles did well.

This rings very true to me. Last week when I first started this thread, 91.5 had more of a pop/rock sound to it (rock with a beat) ... later I started hearing plenty of (Janet, Michael, Shannon, Expose, etc) and I agree, that these songs have not stood the test of time. I loved most of these tunes when they were Top 40 hits, but today they are virtually unlistenable. They sound so tired and worn out.

I understand that people want familiarity and I think having a tight playlist works with statioins playing current music. But I think people are really missing the boat when it comes to programming oldies stations. Hearing the same tired old tunes week after week is just not very appealing to most people. A "Chuck-O" approach with lots of B-sided tunes would do wonders for the longevity of these kinds of stations.

I know this goes against the grain of accepted practice, but how many times can you hear Huey Lewis sing "Power of Love" or "St. Elmo's Fire" before you want to throw the radio out the window?!?!?!!!
 
(Janet, Michael, Shannon, Expose, etc)

I think these kind of songs can work but you have to be able to pick and choose the right songs. For example, Kevin mentioned that the Prince tunes did very well. Ok, so why not throw a little bit of The Time in there? I wouldn't want to listen to any Janet songs either, even her new songs. Michael, well some people would be surprised to see how much of a hit Thriller still is on the dance floor. I just don't think it's right to diss a whole genre of music because certain artists didn't do well in testing. And just who are these people they're testing and how do they get tested?
 
TheVibe said:
(Janet, Michael, Shannon, Expose, etc)

I think these kind of songs can work but you have to be able to pick and choose the right songs.

No; Kevin just told you they didn't work. Yes, that means "the right songs," too. Even "the right songs" didn't work. Which means they don't work no matter how you "pick and choose" them.

For example, Kevin mentioned that the Prince tunes did very well. Ok, so why not throw a little bit of The Time in there?

:D Because, as Kevin already told you, the Prince songs did well and other songs didn't!

I just don't think it's right to diss a whole genre of music because certain artists didn't do well in testing.

A genre is made up of artists. The artists and their biggest hits didn't test well. Therefore, yes, you can say that the genre didn't test well.

And just who are these people they're testing and how do they get tested?

Again, as Kevin already told you, it was an online research software package. Therefore, you can safely assume that it was online testing of hooks done with those who came to the website and clicked on the appropriate link, and it's somewhat reasonable to assume that those who came to the website were listeners of the station.
 
As someone that LOVES the 80's, as a listener, as a (former-though I hate that) radio talent, in my opinion the "young" staff at Star 107.9 was one of the problems. I know the kids are cheaper to employ, but from a listening standpoint I HATED hearing a high-pitched, barely post-pubecent voice telling me about something they read on the cd liner notes. An 80's station, programmed well, sold well, and focused on the audience could still kill in this market. People like to remember when their cars were faster and their hair was longer and life was easier...that's why oldies for each generation works.

The "20 years later" gameplan proves itself. The 50's craze happend in the 70's...American Grafitti, Happy Days and Wolfman Jack had a TV show. In the 80's we saw a resurgence of 60's icons...the Stones came out of hybernation, John Lennon's Double Fantasy, Gary US Bonds hit top 5 I believe. In the 90's we went to the 70's and the whole Jammin Oldies game...every commercial on television featured music from the 70's. In the 2000's, the 80's should be on the air. That is the oldies station for the new generation. Playing 50's and 60's music today means a large chunk of the people that might care to remember their heyday are too old or frankly, too dead.
 
Thank you for all the posts. Let me say I respect all your opinions, and I will try and
address a couple of the points that have been raised.

Young air talent. OK, some of the guys on Star may have been, indeed, young. Understand, though, every radio station has budgetary considerations. Star 107.9 paid
reasonably, but we were not the highest paying station in town. Wish it could have been different, but small station = smaller budget. That's just the way the business is. We hired the best talent we could find at a price we could afford. That's the reality of radio. At the same time, though...having been an "oldies" Program Director, I've heard guys with 30-40 years experience that are great...others that should've hung up their headphones a long time ago. So, while age may help, it can also be a hindrance.
Remember, we were talking to, predominantly, a 28-38 year old listener in 1998. A
25 year old jock can, possibly, do that. Not all of our people were that young, though. Jay Stevens was well in his 30's when he worked for us. So was Kelly Quinn. I was 40 something, and probably on the "trailing" edge of format viability. That's why, as soon as I could get someone to do the morning show, I moved to afternoons, where I thought I was of better use.

Dance music. I know folks like "Vibe" are big proponents of such formats. I do respect the opinions. I just think the jury, so far, is out on "Movin". Time will tell there. It might work in a "Movin" genre (where "cluster" testing might find a demographic that the music appeals to) , but we found the mixture didn't work with the "Listener Advisory Board" that we formed to test the music with on Star. Many listeners who considered Star their "favorite" radio station became members of that board. I can assume they were our "P-1" listeners. (For you non-radio types, those are people who considered Star 107.9 their "first preference" radio station). And, yes, I had the ability within the softwear to silently "delete" someone from the panel, if I had reason to suspect they were trying to monkey with our test results. I cannot, however, remember ever having to do this.

And, I am not "dissing" artists like Michael Jackson. I met Michael in 1979. However,
test results are test results. When you can't get 40% of a panel to say they like his songs, why would you play them? I've seen this in music test after music test. If the public's perception of him could be changed, he might have a comeback album in him.
Regardless of what you think of the man personally, he's an incredible talent. But, the public, overall is just not behind him right now.

Intrestingly enough, this research has tested out in other markets. Maybe it's a midwestern thing, maybe not. But, this part of the country is more blue-collar rock based than some other big metropolitan areas.

The "Chucko" style. OK, I know Chuck Taylor is, personally, a good guy. I know radio geeks and music geeks enjoyed his "B-sides" and his, "this song wasn't a hit, but it was a good song, so I'm gonna play it anyway" style. The reality? Bad ratings.
Go over the books for the WCOL/WBNS battle, and you'll find his appeal was to a small minority of fans. That's in black and white.

I respect Chuck's views and anyone who agrees with him. But, reality doesn't prove out your point. By the way, this is coming from a guy who, once built a 3000 song library for an oldies station, and got slaughtered in the ratings. This is the point
I think a lot of "radio geeks" don't get.

I grew up listening to "personality" radio. There are many people I consider to be near "radio gods". I respect good radio personality. But giving DJ's total control over their shows is a big, big gamble. Some guys might pull it off, a lot of them are abject failures. Usually, a successful "personality" had the common-sense and the control over his/her ego to listen when the station's PD had something worthwhile to say.
And, the PD should be smart enough to listen to his "personality's" ideas and know when to loosen the reins. It takes a special personality to do this. You know it when you see it. But not every one can do it.

The bottom line for music: find what your audience wants to hear (That's the audience as a "whole", not appeal to every single listener's tastes), and play it. With Star, it took us 2 plus years of trial and error to find our way. I'm happy we nearly got it right at the end.

Last but not least. I admit Star 107.9 was my first Programming slot. Was I perfect?
No. Did I make mistakes? Yep. But, consider what I got out of it. I was allowed to
"create" a format. I had advisors, but no rules. The boss allowed us to make mistakes. And, it was in market #35 then. This was at the height of "consolidation". It wasn't perfect. That's a certainty. But, we did our best. I'm proud of what we did.

The format? It's viable...but the large number of stations in a market who all play the same titles tend to burn out the music after a while. I think such a format can still be successful under the right set of circumstances. We'll see.
 
Thank you for the interesting insight. You had a second chance with 80's based music in Dayton with 95.7 The Point. What happened there? Sounded like it was on auto all the time. I know it's now WHIO NewsTalk.

I thought Star had a chance but alot of people didn't even know the dial went that far and it was also limited in signal.
 
Jason Roberts said:
Dance music. I know folks like "Vibe" are big proponents of such formats. I do respect the opinions.

Intrestingly enough, this research has tested out in other markets. Maybe it's a midwestern thing, maybe not. But, this part of the country is more blue-collar rock based than some other big metropolitan areas.

Yes, but two things here.

1. Every single stinking station in the city plays so-called "blue-collar based rock". You would think there would be room for just one little station programmed as an upbeat CHR. Lima!!! for Gods sake has that. And it wouldn't fly in Columbus? Little 3,000 watt Power 107.5 is one of the top 5 stations in Columbus ... doesn't that tell you something?

2. I do agree with you that all of that kind of music won't fly. The more high-energy, whiter tunes (I was listening to Jody Watley and "Cold Hearted Snake") still sound good ... but the black-er tunes ("Ghostbusters", most Janet, and other songs of that genre) mostly sound like crap.

I don't think Columbus will support a 24 hour dance station ... but a dance/rhythm-oriented CHR with personality-oriented DJ's like Wild 93.9 in Lima would get respectable ratings. Whether that's a desirable demographic or not, I'll leave up to the sales guys. But it would get better ratings than the majority of the stations out there.
 
Apollo7979 said:
The playlist may have been a little tighter than it should, but they played a lot more music than some of the 80s stations around the country that leaned heavily toward 80s rock. There's only so much Tom Petty, The Police, and U2 someone can take. They're great bands, but they only share a part of the musical history that is the 80s.

Thank you! I'm with you. As much as I love 80's music, I hated all the 80's stations (except Star 107.9) because they were basically "rock + Prince + Madonna" stations.

I'm surprised when someone said below that marketing research determined that people want 80's rock and none of the bubblegum music that is patently part of the 80's. Where do these marketing geniuses get their information? Do they ask people what that want to hear? They certainly didn't ask me.

Then again, look at all the people who are saying this was a great station due to the different playlist. Were those marketing geniuses right?
 
Radioboy989 said:
As someone that LOVES the 80's, as a listener, as a (former-though I hate that) radio talent, in my opinion the "young" staff at Star 107.9 was one of the problems. I know the kids are cheaper to employ, but from a listening standpoint I HATED hearing a high-pitched, barely post-pubecent voice telling me about something they read on the cd liner notes.

I actually liked the staff and the jingles. It had much more energy than most other 80's stations (good example, the gruff sound voice on Dayton's 95.7 The Point). The sound was sort of reminisent of Top 40 stations back in the 80's. The jingles these days are so dull.
 
Allow me to address a couple of points in previous posts:

First, "So, what happened with WDPT?" Just like Star 107.9 changed format when changes in the marketplace opened a "format hole" that was simply bigger and easier to sell to buyers (oldies), the WDPT
situation was similar, if somewhat different.

As I've commented in other threads on this board, the decision to flip the Point to Newstalk was, simply, a
business decision. The Point was being sold in combo with sister WZLR. Both stations together, frankly,
did pretty well for a long time. WZLR does well on its' own, now, as The Eagle. But, when we looked at what we could make on the Point, either together with WZLR, or in any standalone music format...the potential financial reward was just not as great as we could do by extending the reach of our already successful AM NewsTalk station.

AM signals, as you know, particularly 5 KW or less face big problems at night these days from interference that comes from:

A.) Additional stations that were shoehorned on the band thanks to Docket 80/90. And...

B.) Stations in other parts of the country close to and on our frequency, some of whom, quite frankly
operate outside the bounds of their licenses at night. Some that should reduce power, don't. Some
that are supposed to be directional, aren't, or are not closely monitoring their arrays. And, the FCC
does little, if anything, about these problems.
Because of this, we see increased problems from interference. It's not just here. Many operators all
over the contry know this.

By using the FM to help spread our AM Programming into counties the AM can't reach, or can't reach well, at night, we can gain, overall, a bigger audience...and one that's highly desirable to advertisers. It can clearly make more money than a standalone music station in a niche format can. Like I said, it was a business decision and I never apologize for the fact that radio's a business.

But...don't think the Point died due to bad ratings. The final month of programming showed both Eagle and Point up...the combo was well in the Top 5, in demo. There was just something that else could make the station more money. Period.

For another poster: I got a chuckle out of your "little 3 KW" Power 107 comment. You're accurate. But, remember, it's a class A whose tower only happens to be on the top of the Borden Building in downtown Columbus. That soaks the inner city with signal...and gives them reasonable penetration into downtown buildings...something Star 107.9 could not have.

Songs like "Cold Hearted" did not test for us. Neither did Jody Watley. But, in reply to another poster here,
it's not "marketing geniuses" that do the testing. The "test subjects" are actual listeners, who hear hooks of the songs, then score them. Again, if you can't get at least 66% to 75% of a panel to consistantly score a song well, why should you play it? Some of the dance records we tested 3 and 4 times. Regardless of what you think about the "rock based 80's" formats, last time I looked, the Brew wasn't doing badly. (Off a bit here recently, but, still...)

And, it's not a "white vs. black" issue. If the dance songs had tested well for us, we would certainly have continued playing them. They just didn't test for us. Remember, in another post, I mentioned "cluster testing". At some point, perhaps you could do a cluster analysis that would locate a demo that likes these songs and you could a develop a format around it. (I wouldn't be surprised if that demo is the one "Movin"
goes after. And I'll bet they've used cluster analysis to come up with the artist/demo mix.)

Also, keep in mind. The radio business constantly changes. Everything I said above could change with a change in the public's tastes. What's "fact" today, could be "fiction" 3 years from now. You just have to
take everything in perspective, strive to find what the public wants to hear and give it to them.
 
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