Star 94's top-of-the-hour ID with the music bed that the jock talked over seems to be gone.
I guess John Dimick's work is done.
I guess John Dimick's work is done.
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Star 94 TOH Gone
- Thread starter RoddyFreeman
- Start date
Since Star 94 has been using Reelworld's ONE subscription jingle package maybe the August 2008 CHR update will soon be the TOH on Star? Oh maybe since they're rumored to be cutting expenses, maybe they canceled paying for more jingles!
http://radiojingles.co.nr.freehostia.com/radio/2008/08/05/reelworld-one-chr-august-2008-update/
http://radiojingles.co.nr.freehostia.com/radio/2008/08/05/reelworld-one-chr-august-2008-update/
If I believed in conspiracy theories, I would wonder whether most of what the jock said over the music bed was about The Morning Mess had anything to do with it. But, I don't believe in them so it probably didn't.
To me, it's more likely that the move simply has to do with reducing unnecessary clutter. Stopping down a music set for over 20 seconds or so - as much as I LOVE(D) the TOH - might not have seemed like the best move to the powers that (now) be. I'm totally guessing here, though.
B
Biz Listener
Guest
Does anyone other than industry insiders or bona-fide radio geeks even notice things like jingles?
Get ready for a lot of little changes across the board in Atlanta radio as everyone gears up for PPM. The market goes live with PPM measurement in just over a month, so stations are "getting their game on" the best they know how. It's a lot of guessing at this point, since they really don't know what will work for PPM, but there's a big push to make things flow. Although most changes are much more subtle, keep your ears open, because it's happening on many stations right now.
RadioFlyerAtl said:
Will this mean fewer station jingles? This is something that particularly interests me...I've never heard a real definitive answer one way or the other with regard to using jingles or not using them, which formats they are good for, etc. Could anyone shed some light on this?
grmf said:
I'm not sure what you're basing that on. But I'd love to hear from Randy Kabrich and also John Young (jyprod), who are experts in programming, on this one.
My own guess if that whether listeners consciously think about jingles or not, jingles contribute, subliminally or otherwise, to a listener's overall perception of the station. But I'd like to hear from the experts, of whom I am not one.
B
Biz Listener
Guest
RoddyFreeman said:
I'd rather hear from actual listeners than from "experts" who make their living telling stations which jingle packages to buy. I'm not an expert, either. But I've met too many "experts" in too many fields who charge hefty fees to tell clients whatever the client wants to hear to believe anyone, no matter how good their reputations, if they say something that makes no sense.
First, listeners don't pick jingles. Experts don't pick jingles. Radio stations pick jingles ... some pick awful ones because they "like" them, while others pick "great" ones because they know how to write great lyrics, know a memorable logo when they hear one and have a variety of them to fill different needs.
Second, like anything, there are awful packages, good packages and many mediocre packages. Jingle salespeople have a job to do and that's to get GM's and PD's to part with several thousand dollars for a "jingle budget." Surprisingly, "what's the newest?" ends up on a station that doesn't need the "newest" and they, like songs, wear quickly and become tiresome to hear.
Third, no need to sound like everyone else. Remember, a jingle writer doing an ID package many times recreates then syndicates a package from a "pilot" series created by a radio station. Sometimes what works for "KISS" doesn't work for "The Eagle." Think before you buy.
Fourth, jingle writers who write packages without benefit of actually "piloting" a customized series from first note up rapidly become "hip musicians" and not broadcasters (which they're not.) A rip-off of a Reel World or a Jam track often sounds so bad that when played in the studio, they're not worth putting on the air. I've heard (and collected) a closetful of those, trust me. Jingle writers are broadcasters and most PDs and GMs aren't jingle writers. It takes a special collaboration to "get it right." And, at these rates, don't be afraid to demand that they are.
Fifth, do listeners become aware of and use jingles like radio geeks and inside radio "experts?" The answer, after 50 years is still, "Yes." That doesn't mean that every KROQ needs to use jingles, but then, not every newstalk station needs Jack FM type sweepers and liners either. It all depends on the "setting."
Do listeners remember jingles or what we call "the recall factor?" Again, the answer is "Yes." One of the greatest promotions ever in radio and an old ploy by John Gehron, John Rook and many others was the old "sing it and win" contest on WLS and others. The reason the logo made it to newstalk is because listeners recall that five-note "Double-You-El-Ess" logo. Compare it with the old Anita Kerr logo from the early 60s and you'll note why. WCFL successfully changed logos and succeeded, WFIL in Philly, too. WABC would never change, nor would the old Drake stations. Why? Because they worked with everything and listeners remembered them.
Sixth, are jingles important in a PPM world? Are jocks? Are good tunes? Of course they are. Jingles, still, are the "signature" of a station. Smarmy liners and sound-effect laden sweepers aren't near as "memorable" and they come and go (and should.) But jingles are still like the "signatures" on retail signs. Sure, a lot of people would know a Wal*Mart without its "logo" ... but a whole lot more are still subconciously aware of it everytime they go in a store. Would Target wish that Wal*Mart, Penney's & Sears tear down their logo boards? You bet they would.
Seven, a bad logo (and there are a ton) is as bad as a bad song. Get a good one and the better it identifies the brand in as quick a way as possible, the better. Station IDs don't win Grammies. Songs do. Station IDs ... identify.
Eight, can stations do away with jingles? Some should, because they shouldn't be on the air in the first place. 20 second long TOH tracks to let Johnny DJ "talk it up" may give him a lot of energy, but to a listener in the wrong "environment," that's 18 seconds to much of Johnny DJ. Think about it. Identity is important, image is important, Johnny DJ ... not so important, if he can't "sell" the calls and the image everytime he cracks the mike. A bad talkup won't help a good jingle and a bad jingle won't help a good talkup.
Nine, know how to use them and give 'em a rest. Rotate jingles ... don't worry about having 45 in the control room at one time. Keep 'em fresh. During one period in the six weeks before a rating period, don't be afraid to cut back on all jingles, period, for a couple weeks or so. You'll be surprised how well your jingles work when people say they hear something different about your station. Then, put them back on just before the start of the book. You'll be the most remembered station in town IF your jingles, TOH, etc. are any good.
Ten, simplify, don't amplify. People get tired of having the same thing crammed down their throats as you do in cramming the same bad songs over and over. Jingles identify, they don't replace. Jingles help flow, they don't add to your music rotation.
It works in any format that successfully uses jingles, no matter what. Shotguns, transitions, double punch, acapella, image, they all work at the right time at the right place. And for recall, nothing works better. But screw 'em up anywhere around them and you've lost a listener who will remember those call letters for a long time whether you beat them to death with jingles or not.
Finally, I've bought, written and produced many jingles for radio stations. My rule: What would a listener think of this? And what kind of listener would listen and identify with this? If you can't spell it out, accurately, then you don't need jingles. Again, a good jingle on a bad format will kill ya. So will a bad jingle (though you may think it's the greatest,) on a great station.
JB
Second, like anything, there are awful packages, good packages and many mediocre packages. Jingle salespeople have a job to do and that's to get GM's and PD's to part with several thousand dollars for a "jingle budget." Surprisingly, "what's the newest?" ends up on a station that doesn't need the "newest" and they, like songs, wear quickly and become tiresome to hear.
Third, no need to sound like everyone else. Remember, a jingle writer doing an ID package many times recreates then syndicates a package from a "pilot" series created by a radio station. Sometimes what works for "KISS" doesn't work for "The Eagle." Think before you buy.
Fourth, jingle writers who write packages without benefit of actually "piloting" a customized series from first note up rapidly become "hip musicians" and not broadcasters (which they're not.) A rip-off of a Reel World or a Jam track often sounds so bad that when played in the studio, they're not worth putting on the air. I've heard (and collected) a closetful of those, trust me. Jingle writers are broadcasters and most PDs and GMs aren't jingle writers. It takes a special collaboration to "get it right." And, at these rates, don't be afraid to demand that they are.
Fifth, do listeners become aware of and use jingles like radio geeks and inside radio "experts?" The answer, after 50 years is still, "Yes." That doesn't mean that every KROQ needs to use jingles, but then, not every newstalk station needs Jack FM type sweepers and liners either. It all depends on the "setting."
Do listeners remember jingles or what we call "the recall factor?" Again, the answer is "Yes." One of the greatest promotions ever in radio and an old ploy by John Gehron, John Rook and many others was the old "sing it and win" contest on WLS and others. The reason the logo made it to newstalk is because listeners recall that five-note "Double-You-El-Ess" logo. Compare it with the old Anita Kerr logo from the early 60s and you'll note why. WCFL successfully changed logos and succeeded, WFIL in Philly, too. WABC would never change, nor would the old Drake stations. Why? Because they worked with everything and listeners remembered them.
Sixth, are jingles important in a PPM world? Are jocks? Are good tunes? Of course they are. Jingles, still, are the "signature" of a station. Smarmy liners and sound-effect laden sweepers aren't near as "memorable" and they come and go (and should.) But jingles are still like the "signatures" on retail signs. Sure, a lot of people would know a Wal*Mart without its "logo" ... but a whole lot more are still subconciously aware of it everytime they go in a store. Would Target wish that Wal*Mart, Penney's & Sears tear down their logo boards? You bet they would.
Seven, a bad logo (and there are a ton) is as bad as a bad song. Get a good one and the better it identifies the brand in as quick a way as possible, the better. Station IDs don't win Grammies. Songs do. Station IDs ... identify.
Eight, can stations do away with jingles? Some should, because they shouldn't be on the air in the first place. 20 second long TOH tracks to let Johnny DJ "talk it up" may give him a lot of energy, but to a listener in the wrong "environment," that's 18 seconds to much of Johnny DJ. Think about it. Identity is important, image is important, Johnny DJ ... not so important, if he can't "sell" the calls and the image everytime he cracks the mike. A bad talkup won't help a good jingle and a bad jingle won't help a good talkup.
Nine, know how to use them and give 'em a rest. Rotate jingles ... don't worry about having 45 in the control room at one time. Keep 'em fresh. During one period in the six weeks before a rating period, don't be afraid to cut back on all jingles, period, for a couple weeks or so. You'll be surprised how well your jingles work when people say they hear something different about your station. Then, put them back on just before the start of the book. You'll be the most remembered station in town IF your jingles, TOH, etc. are any good.
Ten, simplify, don't amplify. People get tired of having the same thing crammed down their throats as you do in cramming the same bad songs over and over. Jingles identify, they don't replace. Jingles help flow, they don't add to your music rotation.
It works in any format that successfully uses jingles, no matter what. Shotguns, transitions, double punch, acapella, image, they all work at the right time at the right place. And for recall, nothing works better. But screw 'em up anywhere around them and you've lost a listener who will remember those call letters for a long time whether you beat them to death with jingles or not.
Finally, I've bought, written and produced many jingles for radio stations. My rule: What would a listener think of this? And what kind of listener would listen and identify with this? If you can't spell it out, accurately, then you don't need jingles. Again, a good jingle on a bad format will kill ya. So will a bad jingle (though you may think it's the greatest,) on a great station.
JB
Biz Listener said:
When I was in radio I never once heard a comment from a listener about any kind of imaging (aside from a few saying that it was annoying and interrupted the music too much). I honestly think we have such to entertain ourselves. Keep It Simple Stupid (KISS) or you may actually run listeners off because you wanted to be "creative."
a memorable jingle is gold:
can you hear the WLS jingle in your head? how about K-EARTH?
now...try getting them out of you head. those are worthwhile jingles.
can you hear the WLS jingle in your head? how about K-EARTH?
now...try getting them out of you head. those are worthwhile jingles.
T
tcsnrayp
Guest
The melody of the logo is what sticks. If you can match a lyric or simply the station name and address then you have a genuine sing-a-long hit. THEN the jingle as imaging totally makes sense.
romer979fm said:
The Anita Kerr Singers, and later the PAMS package made WLS. You can find then on the "Internets" if you do a Google search. I still remember the WLS touch tones. I even remember the numbers: 9 - 6 - 3 - 0 - 6.
And don't forget "Class Action" by Jam. And "Solid Rock" by Pams.
The Anita Kerr material was in no class compared with the Chuck Blore mid 60s jingles on WCFL.
The Kerr group did great jingles for the likes of KMPC, but the WLS material was not their best, especially for that format. Ever listen to the "Personality" package? A perfect example.
The Anita Kerr material was in no class compared with the Chuck Blore mid 60s jingles on WCFL.
The Kerr group did great jingles for the likes of KMPC, but the WLS material was not their best, especially for that format. Ever listen to the "Personality" package? A perfect example.
Oaktree-
I loved your response to the question, but I disagree with you here. Chuck Blore was one of the most creative people ever in radio. But I thought those WCFL jingles were just too long and too show-tuneish if you know what I mean.
John Rook in his online autobiography talks about how he used short acapellas as a weapon to restore WLS's dominance vs. WCFL around 1969.
I appreciate your comments and thank you. You're right, the Blore cuts were way too long, but the short ones were actally quite good. The logo was memorable and you can't go wrong with Johnny Mann. The Kerr cuts were long, too, and neither really fit a top 40 format.
The WCFL "Encore ... Encore" jingle was, in my mind, one of the finest jingles ever made. (The short version only...)
Rook did the right thing with the Pams accapella's. I liked the one's with the slide guitar going into "89 WLS." They set up the song perfectly every time with every tempo.
I was also big on the 'CFL jingles from TM, especially Phase II.
WIND's TM jingles were also good as were WMAQ's.
The WCFL "Encore ... Encore" jingle was, in my mind, one of the finest jingles ever made. (The short version only...)
Rook did the right thing with the Pams accapella's. I liked the one's with the slide guitar going into "89 WLS." They set up the song perfectly every time with every tempo.
I was also big on the 'CFL jingles from TM, especially Phase II.
WIND's TM jingles were also good as were WMAQ's.
I agree with all that and loved the slide guitar. The Phase II package, as you know, was really popular, and was effective not only for Top 40 (WCFL) but also AC (WCBM).
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