starting the hour on time

[K.M. Richards]

As obsolete as it may be technically in the 21st century, it's not going to kill anybody broadcasting on the terrestrial airwaves to put call letters/COL at the top of the hour. There are internet broadcasters that would LOVE to become actual radio stations and proudly say call letters/COLs.

I do not favor keeping an antiquated requirement in force, even if it doesn't "kill anybody". The audience doesn't care anyway, PPM doesn't need it, and in diary markets (or so Nielsen tells me) the vast majority of listening entries are by frequency, and most of the rest are by program name/air personality.

KRKE got credit several books back for a diary entry of "Casey Kasem" during the timeslot where we air his classic American Top 40 shows. And this is a station that uses its call letters all during the hour!

 

[bobdavcav]

Well, this discussion has become quite interesting. A few points on my end:
1. The average listener wouldn't have asked the question on this board, but that doesn't make it an invalid question on a board consisting of radio professionals and enthusiasts.
2. I still consider myself young, though I guess I'm getting close to middle age now. I'm 31, not an older listener.
3. The program in question is not live via satellite, but likely internet delivered to be put into the automation to play at the scheduled time. I assume such programs are three files per hour, one that goes between the top of the hour and the first commercial break, one that goes between the breaks, and one that goes between the last break and the top of the hour.
4. The legal ID rule isn't really relevant to this discussion, since Throwback2K has its own hour marker. Even if the legal requirement weren't in force, I probably would have still asked the question, since I would expect each hour of the program to start on time. If the legal requirement didn't exist, I would appreciate some kind of hour marker. Since most stations don't have anything at the top of the hour anymore, the legal makes sense, but I can think of a number of examples where the legal isn't necessary.

 

[K.M. Richards]

Well, this discussion has become quite interesting. A few points on my end:
1. The average listener wouldn't have asked the question on this board, but that doesn't make it an invalid question on a board consisting of radio professionals and enthusiasts.

I never said the question was invalid. I only implied that the average listener has no knowledge of how automation works and suggested that an error in the program log that omitted the real-time flag was the likely culprit of what you described.

I keep a PDF of the manual for KRKE's automation software (BSI Simian) on my own computer for reference.

2. I still consider myself young, though I guess I'm getting close to middle age now. I'm 31, not an older listener.

I agree wholeheartedly with that self-assessment.

3. The program in question is not live via satellite, but likely internet delivered to be put into the automation to play at the scheduled time. I assume such programs are three files per hour, one that goes between the top of the hour and the first commercial break, one that goes between the breaks, and one that goes between the last break and the top of the hour.

Thanks for the clarification, and I agree that even non-live shows should start as close to the TOH as possible. But at the same time, I wouldn't force fade a song to start a pre-recorded program. What I do at KRKE for AT40 is put the real-time flag at 7:57:30 (with a # instead of a @ to tell the automation it is a "next event" update rather than a "do this right now" one), so whatever song is on the air finishes playing before AT40 starts.

You are correct that such shows are sent in segments, and three per hour is pretty much the standard.

4. The legal ID rule isn't really relevant to this discussion, since Throwback2K has its own hour marker. Even if the legal requirement weren't in force, I probably would have still asked the question, since I would expect each hour of the program to start on time. If the legal requirement didn't exist, I would appreciate some kind of hour marker. Since most stations don't have anything at the top of the hour anymore, the legal makes sense, but I can think of a number of examples where the legal isn't necessary.

You are correct ... the legal ID is not relevant to the discussion other than by reference to the fact that it was part of the sequence you described.

Speaking purely as a programmer, I prefer shows with an announced start time to air as close to that time as programming events allow. I agree that the listener expects that as well. That's why I time out AT40 in advance, so once the sequence starts it can run without the need for real-time update flags. As your example proves, those flags can wreak havoc if you depend on them and then fail to include them.

 

[SomeRadioGuy]

Well, this discussion has become quite interesting. A few points on my end:
1. The average listener wouldn't have asked the question on this board, but that doesn't make it an invalid question on a board consisting of radio professionals and enthusiasts.
2. I still consider myself young, though I guess I'm getting close to middle age now. I'm 31, not an older listener.
3. The program in question is not live via satellite, but likely internet delivered to be put into the automation to play at the scheduled time. I assume such programs are three files per hour, one that goes between the top of the hour and the first commercial break, one that goes between the breaks, and one that goes between the last break and the top of the hour.
4. The legal ID rule isn't really relevant to this discussion, since Throwback2K has its own hour marker. Even if the legal requirement weren't in force, I probably would have still asked the question, since I would expect each hour of the program to start on time. If the legal requirement didn't exist, I would appreciate some kind of hour marker. Since most stations don't have anything at the top of the hour anymore, the legal makes sense, but I can think of a number of examples where the legal isn't necessary.

Some syndicated shows are just vocietracks between your music, some are wholly contained segments.. in the case of a music show, likely more then 3 segments. Possibly 4.

The show itself wont have an hour marker, the marker to let the last song play before the next hour starts or hard end the current song and hard start the next hour is in the automation.
**

As for call letters as mentioned in this thread elsewhere, they dont matter too much anymore unless youre WTIC, WBZ, KFI, KNX. etc. I worked for a popular music station, most people referred to us just by our frequency, 97.5 or our slogan/name, The hound. Almost no average listener in 3-4 years I was there used the calls, WDDH and when asked.... few knew what they mean despite being the intials of our owner, a very well known, well off man in the county

 

[K.M. Richards]

As for call letters as mentioned in this thread elsewhere, they dont matter too much anymore unless youre WTIC, WBZ, KFI, KNX. etc.

Or unless you have an owner like Don Davis, who has kept the KRKE calls in his cluster to pay homage to the heritage top-40 station of past decades, 610/KRKE. The only thing I refuse to do on the air is duplicate their old "6-10 kur-kee" delivery.

 

[secondchoice]

I have always found companies that want to have their corporate name part of the ID to simply be introducing confusion into station identity.

One of your former employer's stations (WMAK) had the owner's name on the station ID's back in the early 1970's. You will have to admit it was well done and sounded cool even if you were not a radio geek.

Most of the Insurance company radio stations mentioned their owner's name for obvious reasons.

IMHO the best IDs are revenue generating.

In Atlanta we have "live from the Beaver Toyota studios" in one station's ID.

 

[Dale H. Cook]

These days, with computer-based operation, I can do all of that with a single line command macro, followed by the audio events in sequence.

You are doing that in Simian, whereas I was doing it in much more powerful (and expensive) systems such as AudioVault. Nonetheless, once the operation was set up in audiovau.ini I could call it with a single line. It pays to simplify things.

 

[Mediafrog+]

IMHO the best IDs are revenue generating.

In Atlanta we have "live from the Beaver Toyota studios" in one station's ID.

That can lead to unintentionally funny situations when a sponsor buys multiple stations with different ownership.

Here in Houston we had a couple of separately owned rival sportstalkers that were both “broadcasting from the Bud Lite studios.”

 

[K.M. Richards]

You are doing that in Simian, whereas I was doing it in much more powerful (and expensive) systems such as AudioVault. Nonetheless, once the operation was set up in audiovau.ini I could call it with a single line. It pays to simplify things.

One advantage I have is that if I export the music log in Natural Music format, the file is in ASCII and I can edit in Notepad if necessary. As a remote PD, that's a big help.

 

[cc333]

Smooth, Mix, Magic, Hits, Warm, Cool, Hot, Bear, Fox, Cat, Bull, Wolf, Mountain, River, Island, B, C, Q, X, Z, Kiss, Lite, Spirit, Movin', Star, Sunny, JACK and BOB (Insert FM frquency here)

It would be very interesting if a station actually called itself all those things at once. Would the FCC allow such an abysmally long and tedious ID, I wonder?

c

 

[Dale H. Cook]

Would the FCC allow such an abysmally long and tedious ID, I wonder?

A station ID consists of the call letters and the city of license, with either one coming first. The only things that can come between those two are the frequency and the name of the licensee. Whatever happens outside of the elements constituting the legal ID is irrelevant.

 

[b-turner]

Actually it is call letters followed by city of license with insertions the above poster notes. I have not heard of fines for incorrectly assembled legal IDs in many years. In fact KLLS in San Antonio in the 1980s used this as their legal ID: San Antonio spells class K-L-L-S. No hidden ID in stop set, etc. At one station I worked my boss insised we were 92-K is KTAW, FM Stereo, College Station, Bryan, it's (time) with (jock name) on Maximum Hits 92-K

 

[K.M. Richards]

A station ID consists of the call letters and the city of license, with either one coming first. The only things that can come between those two are the frequency and the name of the licensee. Whatever happens outside of the elements constituting the legal ID is irrelevant.

Sorry, Dale, but § 73.1201 disagrees with you.

(b) Content.
(1) Official station identification shall consist of the station's call letters immediately followed by the community or communities specified in its license as the station's location ...

Not "either one coming first".

 

[Dale H. Cook]

My mistake. That's what I get for not having a regular air shift for 36 years (1982 to 2018).

 

[cc333]

A station ID consists of the call letters and the city of license, with either one coming first.

Yes, what @K.M. Richards posted makes sense. It wouldn't make any sense to have the COL come before the calls, such as, for example, "This is San Francisco, Oakland, San Jose, KCBS AM 740 and 106.9 KFRC FM and HD-1."

That would imply that the station calls are "San Francisco, Oakland, San Jose" and the COL is "KCBS etc...", which makes no sense.

c

 

[K.M. Richards]

Perhaps Dale was thinking of when the late Bill Drake tried to do it as "From Los Angeles (jingle) KHJ!"

Which, as I recall, the FCC issued a NAV about.

 

[K.M. Richards]

Smooth, Mix, Magic, Hits, Warm, Cool, Hot, Bear, Fox, Cat, Bull, Wolf, Mountain, River, Island, B, C, Q, X, Z, Kiss, Lite, Spirit, Movin', Star, Sunny, JACK and BOB (Insert FM frquency here)

It would be very interesting if a station actually called itself all those things at once. Would the FCC allow such an abysmally long and tedious ID, I wonder?c

Would there be time to play any music by the time you finished saying them all? 😜

 

[cc333]

Would there be time to play any music by the time you finished saying them all? 😜

I doubt it! :lol:

c

 

[Bongwater]

Would there be time to play any music by the time you finished saying them all? 😜

I was illustrating the redundancy of "brand" IDs (they're all the same everywhere. Insanely confusing on some radio stream aggregators or data.)

But hell, "This is K-106 1/2 Plus Smooth, Mix, Magic, Hits, Warm, Cool, Hot, Bear, Fox, Cat, Bull, Wolf, Mountain, River, Island, B, C, Q, X, Z, Kiss, Lite, Spirit, Movin', Star, Sunny, JACK and BOB (Insert FM frequency here), (Insert CoL Here.)" sounds like an ID for what would be the most challenging shared frequency in broadcasting history (each station gets it for five minutes an hour.)

Remember those crazy-ass long Soft AC liners of the late 1980s? Some of them simply had to be carted because they were something close to :30 long. For example, here's a paraphrase of a common script heard across these motormouth stations (And this station in particular was a real offender):

"At 95.7....Seattle's K-Lite....We play the best variety of light and easy favorites for your workday. With less talk....Always long sweeps of continuous music....Whether you're at home, in the office. Or in your car, you can count on 95.7 K-Lite to play songs you know from the artists you love. With minimal interruption. And less talk. Songs you can sing along with in the shower. On your drive to work. Or relaxing at home. With less talk...." and on and on....

I mean, you're only five seconds in hearing it, and you're like "OK I got it. Now on to the next song....What?.....Bro, how much did they pay you to read that thing, again?.......Aw, come on, man!.....Somebody just completely microwaved a frozen burrito by now!......OK. Well then stop talking!!....WHAT??......."

 

[K.M. Richards]

"At 95.7....Seattle's K-Lite....We play the best variety of light and easy favorites for your workday. With less talk....Always long sweeps of continuous music....Whether you're at home, in the office. Or in your car, you can count on 95.7 K-Lite to play songs you know from the artists you love. With minimal interruption. And less talk. Songs you can sing along with in the shower. On your drive to work. Or relaxing at home. With less talk...." and on and on....

"...with less talk, if you don't count me doing all this talking right now ..."