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State of OTA DTV in Tucson?

So...
after dropping a small fortune stimulating Best Buy's economy I find I'm having a hard time picking up OTA DTV signals.
Frustrating, since I'm hesitant to get sat or cable after spending so much.
I'm on the eastside and using a 55dB powered antenna, but initial reception only included:

-KVOA 4.1 (full 1080iHD) Great signal at first, but sucks after the TX accumulated ice during the last storm.
-KUAT 6.1, 6.2, 6.3, 27.1, 27.2, 27.3 (varied between 480SD and 1080iHD) Always looking sharp! Other stations' engineer should take note.
-KGUN 9.1 (780p) Pretty consistent. Better audio than their SD signal for sure!
-KMSB 11.1 (780p) Wow! I can see what's on 11 over the air! Off air since the storm though.

No sign of KOLD, KTTU, KWBA or any stations en español.

Are these jokers moving their sticks to higher ground or boosting power in February?
Will Tucson always lose TV reception when it rains after 2-17-09?
Where can I find updates or forums about this topic?

Thanks all
 
Sporque said:
I'm on the eastside and using a 55dB powered antenna

There's your first problem. Most amplified indoor antennas are garbage. A DTV tuner likes to see a signal that's at even levels across the 6 MHz occupied bandwidth, and your garden-variety amplified antenna introduces noise and non-linearity into the equation, which is bad news for DTV reception.

Ditch the amplified antenna and try again with something non-amplified. (Depending on how strong the analogs are at your location, something as simple as a UHF bowtie or loop may do the trick.) Unless you're shadowed from the mountaintop where the transmitters are (Bigelow, isn't it?), there should be plenty of signal without the amplifier. It's even possible that you're overloading your tuner - DTV tuners don't like excessive RF levels.

I'm pretty sure there's not much "higher ground" where the locals could move their sticks - 3600+ feet above average terrain is pretty impressive already.
 
Why are all the TV towers on Mt Bigelow now? I would think that they would be better placed in the Tucson Mountains where they can "see" more of the metro. Their current location means no HD over the air for Oro Valley and the Northwest side since the Catalinas are between them and Mt Bigelow.

It could be that they didn't have a choice, but more of the old analog towers are on the Tucson Mountains, so I wonder why they couldn't just put the digital ones there, too.

Off topic, I know.
 
Perhaps placing the sticks on the Tucson Mountains would make it difficult or impossible for the signals to reach places like San Manuel, Oracle, and points south and east. Mt. Bigelow is a bunch higher than the Tucson's.

When those towers were built on the top of the Catalina's Oro Valley and NW Tucson were still creosote and tumbleweeds. But there should be local repeaters serving those areas, no?
 
My impression is that the various translators can and likely will remain on the air, and in analog. I think that 13 is the only station without such a translator and it is on the Tucson Mountains.

Most Tucson people will be able to do fine without a converter if you have a good UHF antenna and don't care about 13. By the way, Bigelow offers vastly better coverage of Cochise County.

And yes, this has nothing to do with radio except that after February 17 radio may get a significant boost in audience.
 
It's probably not a option for everybody, but I installed a ChannelMaster rooftop antenna last year, and after fiddling around finding a "sweet spot" to pick up all the locals, it works great. Added bonus is hooking it up to radio for better reception, too. Picture off air looks much better than the rebroadcast stuff from sattelite...if you can swing a rooftop antenna, I highly recommend.
 
Thanks, I didn't know about powered antennas being problematic for DTV.
I bought one because of HOA issues at my condo- reception from an indoor antenna is pretty poor with all the wiring and plumbing
and I can't mount an outdoor mast.

The reason I asked about stations repositioning their antennas is that I read that some Tucson stations only had DTV sticks at their studio sites or
backup transmitter locations, or were running only at partial power.

boiseengineer said:
Google's a wonderful thing.

Why, thank you, Spudboy! I never heard of the interweb before your informative post! You'd think I might have googled that information before asking a "dumb" question of the professionals IN MY DMA. But I won't hesitate to ask you how to repair a Beta deck using only a potato the next time it comes up...
 
As mandated by Congress, Feb. 17 will be the last day for full-power television stations to broadcast in analog. Afterward, they will broadcast in digital.

I don't think analog will be an option for anyone. The switch is being made to free-up channels for emergency services such as DPS, Fire and Police.
 
Re: State of OTA DTV in Tucson? (kinda long, sorry!)

Sporque said:
Thanks, I didn't know about powered antennas being problematic for DTV.
I bought one because of HOA issues at my condo- reception from an indoor antenna is pretty poor with all the wiring and plumbing
and I can't mount an outdoor mast.

Just so you know, your HOA cannot prevent you from installing an outdoor antenna in locations under your exclusive control. See http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html.

Of course, what's legal and what will keep you on speaking terms with the neighbors may be two different things.....
_________________________________________________
What does your *analog* reception look like with an indoor antenna?

A powered antenna helps with "snowy" reception - weak signals. If you have "ghosts" - multiple images - a powered antenna will not help. If you live in the city of Tucson it is very unlikely you have a problem with weak signals.

To amplify (sorry!) on Scott's comment about powered antennas being trash... The older multi-element antennas strengthen signals by more efficiently collecting the available signal. They do so by concentrating their response in the direction they're pointed. (i.e., at the transmitting tower) Doing it this way has a side effect: these multi-element antennas receive rather poorly in directions other than the one in which they're pointed. This is a Good Thing, because not only do these antennas more efficiently receive the signals you want, they also reject interference. Or, in the case of "ghosts", they reject unwanted copies of the desired signal bouncing off mountains/buildings/your refrigerator.

Powered antennas receive more or less equally well in all directions. They then try to strengthen signals with an amplifier. The problem is that the antenna itself is picking up not only the desired signal, but unwanted interference and "ghosts" coming from other directions. The amplifier then boosts all these undesired signals right along with the desired signal.

But there's more.

What does an amplifier do? It strengthens an incoming signal. If you have an amplifier with a gain of 10, and you apply a signal of 1/10 volt to the input, you get a signal of 1 volt on the output.

In digital TV, the station transmits eight discrete signal levels. (hence "8VSB") Let's say that those eight levels, as received on your antenna from KGUN-DT, are 0.1, 0.2, 0.3, 0.4, 0.5, 0.6, 0.7, and 0.8 volt. You have an amplifier with a gain of 10, powered from a 6-volt power supply.
Code:
[b]Number   Input signal (volts)   Output signal (volts)[/b]
1           0.1               1
2           0.2               2
3           0.3               3
4           0.4               4
5           0.5               5
6           0.6               6
7           0.7               [b]6[/b]
8           0.8               [b]6[/b]
The amplifier can't possibly put out more than 6 volts, because that's all the more that's coming out of the power supply that powers it. So the signal coming out of the amplifier is the same for signal levels 6, 7, and 8 - your DTV can't tell the difference. As a result, 25% of the data you receive will be in error. The DTV standard can fix some reception errors, but it can't deal with 25% of the data being wrong.

Point is, an amplifier is not only useless in a city where signals are already strong, but it can actually make reception worse.
_________________________________________________

Looking at the FCC Database, the only Tucson channels I see operating at low digital power are 27, 40, and 46. Of course 27's analog is pretty weak too. (and they have no current plans to increase digital power) 40 has a permit to increase their power by roughly a factor of 30 when they change frequency on the 18th. 46 has a permit to increase by a factor of about 5 when they change frequency. It may be worthy of note that channels 11, 13, and 18 have their analog transmitters at a different site from channels 4, 6, and 9 - but all six stations are transmitting digital signals from the same site. (the existing 4/6/9 analog site)

I don't see any evidence that any of the Tucson stations (except 27?) ever transmitted DTV from their studio sites, though that was common practice in some other markets. Some did have reduced-power permits but with the exception of the three mentioned above those permits have been superceded by full-power operation.

_________________________________________________
MyFacedotcom said:
As mandated by Congress, Feb. 17 will be the last day for full-power television stations to broadcast in analog. Afterward, they will broadcast in digital.

I don't think analog will be an option for anyone.

A week ago I would have agreed fully :)

There is a move afoot in Congress to delay the transition by 6-12 months. President Obama supports this move and I think we can assume he'll sign such a bill if it passes Congress. There is however considerable opposition in Congress and it is by no means certain a bill will be sent to the President.

What has passed Congress and been signed by outgoing President Bush is the Analog Nightlight Act. The FCC released the implementing rules last Friday. http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-09-2A1.pdf.

This Act allows some (many) analog stations to operate until March 19th, but only to broadcast information about the DTV transition, and information on any emergencies that may occur during the nightlight period.

The FCC action includes a list of stations initially eligible to participate. In Tucson this list includes channels 3, 4, 6, 11, 13, and 27. These stations can participate by merely notifying the FCC. Four other stations - channels 9, 18, 40, and 46 - can participate if they can prove they can leave their analogs on the air without interfering with anyone else's digital. (possibly by operating at reduced analog power) (I doubt they'll bother)
 
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