Station ID Question

[Barry]

If an HD2 subchannel is broadcasting an open carrier, are they still required to do hourly station ID's?
One of the HD channels in New York has broadcast an open carrier for several days. Given the size of the audience, I may be the only person that has noticed this .
I put it on in the background for a couple of hours and heard no ID. Is that considered legally OK? I believe the ID rules for HD subchannels may be a bit vague.

 

[Savage]

I don't think they're vague. They're as clear as the ID rules for the main channel: callsign and city of license, within 5 minutes of the top of each hour.

In the dim, distant past - until 1973 - the ID had to be within TWO minutes of both the top and bottom of the hour.

 

[davideduardo]

I don't think they're vague. They're as clear as the ID rules for the main channel: callsign and city of license, within 5 minutes of the top of each hour.

In the dim, distant past - until 1973 - the ID had to be within TWO minutes of both the top and bottom of the hour.

And the rule is actually "at a natural break" and not +/5 minutes.

"(2) Hourly, as close to the hour as
feasible, at a natural break in program
offerings. "

This is what has allowed music stations with stopsets at around :45 and :15 to make the ID the last item in the second stopset of the hour, or around :48 to :52 depending on the length and start of the stopset. This has been going on for perhaps two decades and it places the legal ID well outside a plus or minus 5-minute zone.

Of course, those classical stations running full works could be off by as much as an hour in their IDs and still be true to the "natural break" rule.

 

[TimeIsTight]

Of course, those classical stations running full works could be off by as much as an hour in their IDs and still be true to the "natural break" rule.

IIRC, even prior to 1973, in the days of the two-minute rule, classical stations had an exemption that allowed them to play complete works without an ID break. You could put the LP on, and let the record track, without watching the clock. You just had to remember to sneak a legal ID in when the record ended.

 

[spunker88]

CC Stations near me have given up IDing the HD-1 even though they are still running them on HD Radio. Y94FM now IDs as "This is WYYY Syracuse, an iHeartRadio station" and 570/106.9 WSYR now IDs as "WSYR-FM Solvay, WSYR-AM Syracuse, Central NY's news & talk station".

 

[fybush]

This is where the rules transition from "crystal clear" to "opaque as dried mud," because the FCC in its infinite wisdom declined to specify a clear form for ID'ing an HD signal. The current version of the rules tells us:

A radio station operating in DAB hybrid mode or extended hybrid mode
shall identify its digital signal, including any free multicast audio
programming streams, in a manner that appropriately alerts its audience
to the fact that it is listening to a digital audio broadcast.

Many stations of late seem to believe that the text ID that accompanies the HD broadcast is "a manner that appropriately alerts" listeners, and thus have stopped doing an aural ID. I haven't seen the FCC cite anyone yet for a violation on this.

 

[davideduardo]

.
IIRC, even prior to 1973, in the days of the two-minute rule, classical stations had an exemption that allowed them to play complete works without an ID break. You could put the LP on, and let the record track, without watching the clock. You just had to remember to sneak a legal ID in when the record ended.

You are correct.

If the LP had half of a work on each side, and you either flipped it, or had two copies so as to segue, you could go over an hour.

I enjoyed watching an announcer at a classical FM I managed in Richmond, VA, in 1970 do a "flip segue" where he absolutely matched the "silent groove" time between movements while flipping the LP over and continuing the piece.

 

[Barry]

This is where the rules transition from "crystal clear" to "opaque as dried mud," because the FCC in its infinite wisdom declined to specify a clear form for ID'ing an HD signal. The current version of the rules tells us:

A radio station operating in DAB hybrid mode or extended hybrid mode
shall identify its digital signal, including any free multicast audio
programming streams, in a manner that appropriately alerts its audience
to the fact that it is listening to a digital audio broadcast.

Many stations of late seem to believe that the text ID that accompanies the HD broadcast is "a manner that appropriately alerts" listeners, and thus have stopped doing an aural ID. I haven't seen the FCC cite anyone yet for a violation on this.

This may well be the answer to my original question. Though running open carrier for over a week (AFAIK with no audio ID's) , the HD2 has been continuously running a text ID.
The station in question leased the frequency from Clear Channel to provide local ethnic programming, starting last month. Then a week ago, after only about a month on the air, they stopped feeding programmng to the HD2, leaving it with an open carrier since then. There is a brief mention on their web stream page indicating they are having financial issues. It is unclear why they don't ask CC to simply shut down the HD2 for awhile, or put alternate programming on it, at least temporarily. And since they are continuing to stream online, how is this saving them money? Perhaps they are trying to save the cost of the connection from their studio to the station?

 

[nd2023]

This is where the rules transition from "crystal clear" to "opaque as dried mud," because the FCC in its infinite wisdom declined to specify a clear form for ID'ing an HD signal. The current version of the rules tells us:

A radio station operating in DAB hybrid mode or extended hybrid mode
shall identify its digital signal, including any free multicast audio
programming streams, in a manner that appropriately alerts its audience
to the fact that it is listening to a digital audio broadcast.

Many stations of late seem to believe that the text ID that accompanies the HD broadcast is "a manner that appropriately alerts" listeners, and thus have stopped doing an aural ID. I haven't seen the FCC cite anyone yet for a violation on this.

This may well be the answer to my original question. Though running open carrier for over a week (AFAIK with no audio ID's) , the HD2 has been continuously running a text ID.
The station in question leased the frequency from Clear Channel to provide local ethnic programming, starting last month. Then a week ago, after only about a month on the air, they stopped feeding programmng to the HD2, leaving it with an open carrier since then. There is a brief mention on their web stream page indicating they are having financial issues. It is unclear why they don't ask CC to simply shut down the HD2 for awhile, or put alternate programming on it, at least temporarily. And since they are continuing to stream online, how is this saving them money? Perhaps they are trying to save the cost of the connection from their studio to the station?

The ethnic broadcaster realizes that the HD2 offers them no additional listeners, so it's not worth it to feed programming to it.

 

[tomservo]

This is where the rules transition from "crystal clear" to "opaque as dried mud," because the FCC in its infinite wisdom declined to specify a clear form for ID'ing an HD signal. The current version of the rules tells us:

A radio station operating in DAB hybrid mode or extended hybrid mode
shall identify its digital signal, including any free multicast audio
programming streams, in a manner that appropriately alerts its audience
to the fact that it is listening to a digital audio broadcast.

Many stations of late seem to believe that the text ID that accompanies the HD broadcast is "a manner that appropriately alerts" listeners, and thus have stopped doing an aural ID. I haven't seen the FCC cite anyone yet for a violation on this.

The way I interpret that, not only could the text display be a valid ID but so could theoretically only ID'ing the HD aurally on the HD feed itself. Not that such is practical on the HD-1, but it sounds like it would be permissible. The analog listeners aren't listening digitally, thus not needing to hear the digital legal ID.

Knowing that, I can say that some local HD multicasts violate that rule by running dead air with the display showing incorrect PAD data for a song title/artist.

Also, FWIW the local CC talker is heard on one HD-2 broadcast and the HD-2 has been or still is ID'd separately on the FM-HD from the AM. At least the last time I heard the AM station, they weren't even mentioning the availability of the station on the powerful HD-2 signal via FM.

 

[Ai4i]

But but but...what if the HD-2, 3, etc. is running something other than clear audio?
Paging, subscription sporting events, radio reader service, even meter reading?
Would an ID need to be clear, or could it go along with the format of program being transmitted?
I do not know whether such a limited access transmission would be recognized as silence by my receiver, or if it would not detect it @ all.

 

[davideduardo]

But but but...what if the HD-2, 3, etc. is running something other than clear audio?
Paging, subscription sporting events, radio reader service, even meter reading?

Are any of those things being done using an HD-2 or beyond?

 

[tomservo]

But but but...what if the HD-2, 3, etc. is running something other than clear audio?
Paging, subscription sporting events, radio reader service, even meter reading?

Are any of those things being done using an HD-2 or beyond?

My local NPR affiliate for Pensacola runs radio reading service on their HD-3 and it's quite interesting. They started it up after the public radio station in Mobile was bought by an out of town University, who killed the reading service for lack of funding. I've never heard subscription or paging on HD channels.

 

[Ai4i]

Local newspapers and other sources might eventually require the station to limit access to authorized recipients.
DE, they could be going on all around me, but if my radio skips over them, I would never know it.

 

[JohnnyElectron]

I don't understand why the local AM "hides" its FM HD simulcast with a 'fast as you can say-it' at a low volume for the TOH ID.
ie: "News/Talk 1370, WSPD Toledo (then speeded-up low volume out-of phase voice: WRVF-HD2 Toledo)". Why wouldn't you give it the same 'glory' as your heritage ID and let people know about it.
Likewise, the 1kw graveyard has an FM simulcast on a 50KW HD-2, but doesn't hide their FM HD2 ID, despite both being Clear Channel stations.

Unfortunately, they've not made it worth their while to provide stereo audio on the FM HD-2 despite much of the weekend programming being brokered music programs that could sound really good, and a great way to show-off HD radio.

 

[Darth_vader]

"My local NPR affiliate for Pensacola runs radio reading service on their HD-3 and it's quite interesting. They started it up after the public radio station in Mobile was bought by an out of town University, who killed the reading service for lack of funding."

OPB did that with Golden Hours for about a year, around 5-6 years back. (I'd even commented on that in my "MotoMuzak" days here, as a matter of fact.) I think it was because the DVS tracks they were running on the SAP channel for a number of their TV programmes was interrupting the Golden Hours schedule, and people were getting fed up with it. Hopefully someone'll pick it up again, since in 2008 OPB killed the radio reading service for lack of management staff capable of making intelligent decisions that actually are in the public's best interest.

 

[Savage]

Incredibly, my information is that some local station managers - resentful of having HD rammed down their gullets by corporate - "hide" the presence of IBOC channels or otherwise thwart HD for a variety of reasons. One is that they don't want to encourage possible fragmentation of the main-channel audience (local sales management doesn't want to lose a SINGLE listener or a SINGLE quarter-hour to anyone, let alone their own subchannel.) Another is that they don't want to attract too much attention to the subs because they don't have the manpower to properly maintain them, so they don't want to have any audience which will complain when the channel screws up. A corollary is they don't want to spend time fielding complaints about bad HD-2 coverage.

And then there are those who just plain hate the system, its expense and endless resource diversion, so they actually try to set it up for failure. I personally know of a big-signal FM where the HD-2 was modulated about 10% compared with the main channel and had an objectionably loud 60 Hz hum for over a year. No effort was made to correct it. It was on the air solely to comply with a corporate mandate. I heard of another sub with no programming on it for months. It was just "there."

 

[mmnassour]

While I don't think I would sabotage my own station , everything in your first paragraph makes perfect sense to me. I can completely understand why a GM would feel that way. And if he/she has the impression from their immediate supervisor at corporate that HD is not that big a deal, then, heck yea, de-emphasize the thing.

All it does is increase costs and deliver zero listeners.

 

[Barry]

It is odd that stations run zillions of spots promoting HD radio in general, but almost never mention their own HD2/HD3 subchannels.
A listener considering the purchase of an HD radio would have little idea what additional programming could be heard in their area.
BTW, it is now two weeks that Clear Channel's WWPR has been running an open carrier on its HD2, as the ethnic broadcaster that leased the channel (mentioned in the original post) is apparently having difficulty paying its bills.

 

[Ai4i]

Thought I had posted this a few days ago, but was in a hurry and likely hit "preview" in lieu of "post".

Are any of those things being done using an HD-2 or beyond?

Maybe??
Could be happening all around me.
How would I ever know?