Station "Suicides"

[weneedtotalk]

And your point is?

I'm going to file this under 'asked and unanswered' because not only does it have to be continuously asked - but it needs to be answered. And it seems a meaningful answer and solution remain elusive...so much for 'ho hum' - 'shooting from the hip' which well describes your own missive if I may say so.

 

[KeithE4]

Broadcasters share at least 50% of the so-called 'blame' for the exclusion of plus 55 as a marketable audience. Where are the stations and programmers aggressively pursuing the 55 million 'valueless' US citizens? Almost a quarter of America's workforce is over 55. 21st Century radio broadcasters program to the cheapest most accessible demo with 'local content' destroying playout software - cluster/auditorium music research - computer generated spot buy and sell deals. This is not an anti-automation rant because there are multiple benefits offered to broadcasters through digitization of systems - it's the abuse of automation in programming where the problem lies. Clear Channel, Bill Clinton and RCS et al have a lot to answer for in degradation of radio as a medium. I just don't and never will buy into the 'helpless' attitude prevalent in so much radio 'thinking' today. And don't take this personally because it's not meant to be - but abandoning an older age group is intellectually and creatively lazy 'thinking' and it's become endemic in radio. The too hard basket is too close to the programmer/management desk and is filling too quickly.

If a customer doesn't think it'll make a profit by selling to a certain subset of the market, it won't do so. In this case, the customer is the advertiser and the "certain subset of the market" is radio stations that program to folks older than 55.

I saw a similar situation in the office phone systems business as well, when my then-employer stopped selling and marketing small phone systems to "trunkers" (independent guys who were not dealers and literally sold equipment out of the trunks of their cars). They decided to concentrate on selling to authorized dealers and directly to big retail outlets only. It was a smart business decision in that we made little money from those independent guys anyway, given the tech support costs required to deal with untrained people.

I'm guessing that advertisers feel the same way, although some still advertise on TV and in magazines, where seniors will still be found.

 

[Groove1670]

I turn 50 next year. My buying decisions have dwindled over the past dew years, and that is the case of most 50+ listeners. Material things, and the newest product hype just doesn't appeal to this age demo. Your priorities change.

Radio broadcasters have always programmed to the cheapest most accessible demo for one reason..they spend money with no hesitation. If many of us could go back and save all the money we spent of stuff we didn't need when were in our 20's and 30's, we would probably have a small fortune.

Digitization is probably the best thing that has happened to small market radio. I agree, if it is used to the full potential you can have a great sounding local product. There are too many options out there now not to sound local. I stll hear an occasional 24 hour feed (music) but most of those stations just exist. Most small market stations can't afford a full staff, so digitization is the next best solution, and when done properly can create a great product.

 

[xmtrland]

55+ is very important to broadcasters, it's the demo keeping a lot of these stations on the air, in the form of engineering and other services.

 

[b-turner]

Weneedtotalk saying radio is lazy by abandoning the 55+ shows his lack of knowledge. I would suspect you have never run a business or managed one. If you have, and I am incorrect, you know my point: management always takes the easiest and most efficient model for running a business. Doing the more difficult and chancy option is not good business sense. In the same vein, opting for a more difficult path to profit, versus an easier path is never wise since profit is sometimes very elusive as expenses are almost always exceeding projected costs.

Obviously, my suggestion is to check the radio stations in your area. Likely several will sell you time for a fee per hour. Buy a block of time and program to the 55+ audience. I am sure you can easily uncover a former DJ from the era with the record collection to host the show for free (at least in the beginning) if not yourself. All you need to do is sell it. Go call on the businesses and the ad agencies they send you to. The dirty secret about sales is you have been doing it all your life, many times a day. Don't think you can't sell. Every time you convinced your parents to allow what you wanted to do, every time you tried to sway your friends to do something, every time got your boss or school teacher to allow something you wanted, you were selling, and you were selling hard because you had a 'dog in that fight', so to speak. Everyone can sell, they just don't know it.

If it works for you, expand your hours or maybe a better frequency. You might end up LMAing a whole station's broadcast day. And then you could prove us wrong. Do what radio station owners do every day, take your best shot and try to monetize it.

Lots of stations sell blocks of time and sometimes you can get a sweetheart deal. I knew a guy that would work a 6 hour board op shift and get the last two hours to do his own show in lieu of getting paid for it. Perhaps that is a good way to start: find a weekend board op gig and then hang out with the sales people when you can to see how they work before you start. You might look at doing a volunteer show at a non-commercial FM station where you can go out and get sponsors, called Underwriters. My point is you might be able to do something without laying out much, if any cash.

So, my advice, if you think we are just being a bit too unmotivated, you could be right, but the only way to show us is to create a successful model that will make our bosses reconsider their decisions and their investor's decisions. And I might add, it convinces us because we'd rather take a tried and proven path because we'd rather hold on to our jobs and not have to move our family out of the area for the next opportunity if our plan doesn't perform like it should. For lots of us, a non-compete agreement means moving a good distance away for our next gig.

 

[davideduardo]

Broadcasters share at least 50% of the so-called 'blame' for the exclusion of plus 55 as a marketable audience. Where are the stations and programmers aggressively pursuing the 55 million 'valueless' US citizens?

Radio listening among 55-64 is at a level comparable to that of 35-44 or 45-54. The over-55 folks are definitely there, and listening.

Most stations that target 35-54 do well in the 55+ demo to due to "spillage". In other words, a format that appeals to a 50 year old is just as likely to be liked by someone in their late 50's or even early 60's.

So stations in classic rock, AC, talk, news, sports, classic hits, Urban AC, gospel, Spanish language AC, Adult Hits and other formats generally have a very large over-55 portion of their total audience.

The problem is that the older audience produces little or no revenue. That is because agencies almost never buy over 55 and direct accounts (with a few exceptions in "senior haven" markets) don't want the audience either unless it comes as a bonus to the under 50 or under 55 audience they are paying to reach.

Many stations have tried to make a predominantly senior format work. A good example was WDUV in Tampa: #1 in 12+ but about 15th in 25-54 with a soft AC that developed out of a standards format. Billings? 15th in the market, and lowest for any FM. They "modernized" the music and suddenly broke into the Top 10 in 25-54, and billings are following the improved under-55 listening. All through this, the 55+ listeners stuck around and the station is still #1 in 12+.

Radio can not tell Proctor & Gamble or Coke or Budweiser or Ford who their clients should be. They know who they developed their products for, who will use them the most and who is more susceptible to advertising. So if an advertiser's marketing department tells the agency "our consumer target is women 25 to 44" that is what the agency will buy against. No radio seller can convince a media buyer to change the target as all that would do is get the person fired for not following a client dictate.

Drilling for 55+ dollars is always a dry hole because there is no underlying advertiser demand.

 

[CTListener]

Radio can not tell Proctor & Gamble or Coke or Budweiser or Ford who their clients should be. They know who they developed their products for, who will use them the most and who is more susceptible to advertising.

Even if 55+ was just as susceptible to a sales pitch as 25-54, they're still over 55. Advertisers want to develop brand loyalty, and a potential customer who'll be buying their products for the next 50-60 years is much more valuable than one who only has 20-30 years left as a consumer.

 

[K.M. Richards]

Broadcasters share at least 50% of the so-called 'blame' for the exclusion of plus 55 as a marketable audience. Where are the stations and programmers aggressively pursuing the 55 million 'valueless' US citizens?

Mr. "I'm outside the industry but I know I'm right" strikes again.

Asked and answered. Radio stations can pursue a 55-and-over demographic, but they do so at their own peril. Such a station will never -- absolutely never -- be included in agency buys. That means no national advertising dollars. That means every single dollar of revenue has to come from local ad sales. Local sales efforts always come with a higher cost, and that just means you need to sell even more time just to cover expenses.

Your comment above makes a false presumption that the stations really have any say in this. Understand that we are simply the carrier of the advertising content ... the agencies control, by far, the biggest source of revenue. Being outside the business, you are obviously unaware of attempts made in the past to convince Madison Avenue otherwise. Every single attempt over the past couple of decades has failed.

Tell you what: We'll get you a list of the agencies with the highest spending in radio advertising and give you their addresses. Write them and see if their answer is materially different from ours.

I'm going to file this under 'asked and unanswered' because not only does it have to be continuously asked - but it needs to be answered.

Look, more proof that Einstein was right.

 

[umfan]

In markets where there is enough local critical mass for ad dollars, some stations do cater to the 55+ crowd. One such station serves the area where 'The Villages' are in Florida. Those stations are the exception for the reasons the above poster has laid out. KAHM in Phoenix is another exception. When it makes business sense, such stations do exist, it just doesn't make sense in most instances.

 

[davideduardo]

In markets where there is enough local critical mass for ad dollars, some stations do cater to the 55+ crowd. One such station serves the area where 'The Villages' are in Florida. Those stations are the exception for the reasons the above poster has laid out. KAHM in Phoenix is another exception. When it makes business sense, such stations do exist, it just doesn't make sense in most instances.

On the other hand, the standards leaning station in the Palm Springs market was moved from a full B FM to a local channel AM which only covers about a third of the market. This was due to declining revenues with even the local advertisers not having much desire to reach 65+

KAHM is an the Prescott market, not Phoenix. It has a CP which will make it reach a corner of the Phoenix area, but it won't be a significant player even then.

 

[landtuna]

KAHM is an the Prescott market, not Phoenix. It has a CP which will make it reach a corner of the Phoenix area, but it won't be a significant player even then.

KAHM does reach a significant NW corner of the Phoenix metro. I could get it consistently with a good signal when I lived up there. More importantly, it reaches the Sun Cities (that giant retirement area known as Sun City, Sun City West and large areas of Surprise and Peoria). Father in law reports it is still coming in fine at Bell Road and 87 Ave.

 

[Kelly A]

Clear Channel, Bill Clinton and RCS et al have a lot to answer for in degradation of radio as a medium. I just don't and never will buy into the 'helpless' attitude prevalent in so much radio 'thinking' today. And don't take this personally because it's not meant to be - but abandoning an older age group is intellectually and creatively lazy 'thinking' and it's become endemic in radio. The too hard basket is too close to the programmer/management desk and is filling too quickly.

I had to re-read that rant twice and can now confirm, it officially went off the rails. Clear Channel, Bill Clinton and RCS? Seriously?

Back in the 70's and 80's when older-demo-skewing MOR formats were in just about every market, most were automated with reel to reel tape. They sounded clunky and lacked any personality coinciding with the then-crude automation systems used to be cost effective. Modern satellite augmented and voice tracked automation systems are miles above the quality and available personality of the 'good ol' days'. I'm part owner of a Classic Hits station that is satellite music and automation. Listeners are frequently calling in wanting to speak with one of the jocks on the air. They can't tell. The fact is, there would be no way I could remain in business (suicide) by hiring and retaining live jocks 24/7, let alone finding the level of quality of talent in a small market.

 

[davideduardo]

KAHM does reach a significant NW corner of the Phoenix metro. I could get it consistently with a good signal when I lived up there. More importantly, it reaches the Sun Cities (that giant retirement area known as Sun City, Sun City West and large areas of Surprise and Peoria). Father in law reports it is still coming in fine at Bell Road and 87 Ave.

As I said, it reaches a small corner of the market. The 60 dbu only covers 360,00o persons, mostly in the Prescott-cottonwood area. It barely shows on the PHX ratings if and when it meets the MRS cutoff. In other words, it is a Prscott station

 

[b-turner]

Kelly A makes a very good point. The climate has changed in radio. I'm talking how the advertising pie is sliced. At one time when FCC Rules required a warm body in the building, competition was less from all sides. In fact in small markets TV was mostly limited to a couple of TV stations from a distant town via a local 'TV Club'. There were few shoppers. In most counties you had the radio station and the local newspaper, period.

In a matter of about 5 years, cable TV was everywhere, radio stations began signing on all over the place, shoppers began and newspapers, feeling the pinch, just like radio began to focus on more than just their community. Revenue became much leaner and harder to come by. By then satellite radio appeared. I was courted at the small market station I managed. The salesman told me I could have a consistent format with major market jocks who stuck to the playlist, never called in sick or quit without notice and simply provided a better product for the cost of less than one full time employee per month, saving me a bundle.

I resisted but over time it looked like a much better option as it became more difficult to obtain advertising dollars. Advance another 5 years and it was not so much an option, but a requirement. It wasn't because I did a bad job or the guy that followed me as GM. We truly served our community and had a very dedicated staff. There was just so much competition from upgraded radio stations, new stations, more print options, cable TV and other advertising options for businesses, the cash we could get was not adequate. Something had to give.

It wasn't long before, in my opinion, a better option appeared, computer automation that allowed us to be local but not always a warm body behind the microphone. Sure, I missed that but those warm bodies really liked their paychecks to clear.

Since the time, about 1981, the number of radio stations on the dial has about tripled. The cable TV channels have increased from maybe 15 to about 200. The town I spoke of has three papers now, a shopper, a free 'good news' paper mailed to every home and the same old weekly. The town has 3 FMs. The AM I ran has gone silent...it was the only station at the time. You can receive about 40 stations in the town now. When I was there it was about 5. And the Cable TV crew is in town once a month, mostly taping spots for clients and selling new ones. In addition, a mail company is including the town in signing up to advertise via mail. By the way, the local paper owns the papers in the three nearby towns with many of the inside pages common to all the papers in an effort to save money.

Back then the station supported a news director, a farm director, a fulltime traffic/secretary, 4 fulltime and 3 part time jocks (one was PD), three part time sports announcers, a fulltime salesperson and myself. My job was to pick up the slack wherever it was and sell fulltime as the GM. We had an engineer on contract that made weekly visits. We operated 6am to Midnight; 7am on Sunday. We had all the small market trappings of a buy/sell/trade program, a morning and noon hour news/farm block, heavy on full service programming, a daily interview in the news hour (some considered public affairs), gospel music Sunday morning with a few churches, etc. We were doing pretty well, not by my doing, I merely carried the torch. Over time, step by step, all that local was replaced by network feeds, the farm guy was let go, the news director became part time, etc., all after I got my next gig. The truth was the station did everything right but the ad dollars got splintered and something had to give. In the end, the station was owned by a family that lived in the station. One day they shut it down. It never came back on and the license was deleted.

I was rather intimidated going in to that station because it was so successful, running like a well oiled machine when I got there. I just made sure I didn't get in the way, put out the fires when they popped up and acted as a support system for the staff. I was really happy to have been there, seeing how a good and successful station operated. But in the end, it was less about doing the wrong thing than seeing the revenue dwindle slowly, with advertisers trying other options and buying a smaller package with that radio station. The distant FM stations that first moved in, followed by the local FMs, really took the wind out of their sails.

Automation is not a choice for most stations but a requirement for survival. Those in charge really want the best product on the air. In fact, better product is like any other business. Think of it like the restaurant industry, the better the quality of food, service, ambiance, etc., the better the chances are you will have a successful restaurant. In short, we find a way and trying to provide the best product based on what our revenue will permit.

As a side note, I recall two employees getting so upset with each other they both turned in their two week's notice. I was scared to death at the thought of replacing them. Our traffic person, a single mom, said they needed to learn to appreciate each other, as she had seen the animosity build between the two. I guessed her wisdom came from understanding the sibling rivalry between her own kids. I brought everyone in the station except the jock on the air to the office and asked the staff to write down three reasons we needed and valued the two. Then I called them in and we read those reasons to them. Amazingly, hearing how we valued them, they decided they needed to work things out and stick around, greatly reducing my stress level. Both had been at the station a few years. We really needed them.

 

[weneedtotalk]

Dear b-turner,

I make a living out of fixing broken radio stations and evaluating personnel...usually when management fails. For your information I've bought, built, sold, managed and programmed radio stations across the planet - it ain't rocket science but it does take hard work and imagination to get it right. And yes, you're right, radio management do take the easy way out - they fall over for the 'consultant' with all the answers to their problems which invariably include a tweaked music format and an 'exciting' production package...at a price in line with budget expectations. It's this kind of attitude that reduces radio from 'journeyman' to 'pedestrian' broadcasting - both of which there is too much of.

The best radio lies before us not behind us and that's what I look and strive for.

And please, before you attempt to 'put me in my place' again - try asking a question and then immediately switch from transmit to receive.

 

[b-turner]

Funny thing, weneedtotalk, you do not mention sales in your resume. I presume you have.

On another note, bringing back stations from the dead is not an easy thing to do. Having been in programming and passionate about radio, I'd love to hear about some of your best work. I have had little experience in doing that. Who knows, one of those stations might very well be one I really admire. You're right, it ain't rocket science and takes lots of hard work and imagination. And hard work should be in all capital letters because it is so crucial.

 

[K.M. Richards]

I'm sorry, "needtotalk", but if your definition of "fixing stations" includes programming for a demographic which is not saleable, I see a trip to Bankruptcy Court in your future. I hope you can avoid that by having a decent amount in your investment accounts.

Meanwhile, take off those rose-tinted glasses and take a real look at the industry. You seem to dismiss everything we've said about reality as something that doesn't apply to you.

 

[davideduardo]

Broadcasters share at least 50% of the so-called 'blame' for the exclusion of plus 55 as a marketable audience. Where are the stations and programmers aggressively pursuing the 55 million 'valueless' US citizens? Almost a quarter of America's workforce is over 55. 21st Century radio broadcasters program to the cheapest most accessible demo with 'local content' destroying playout software - cluster/auditorium music research - computer generated spot buy and sell deals. This is not an anti-automation rant because there are multiple benefits offered to broadcasters through digitization of systems - it's the abuse of automation in programming where the problem lies. Clear Channel, Bill Clinton and RCS et al have a lot to answer for in degradation of radio as a medium. I just don't and never will buy into the 'helpless' attitude prevalent in so much radio 'thinking' today. And don't take this personally because it's not meant to be - but abandoning an older age group is intellectually and creatively lazy 'thinking' and it's become endemic in radio. The too hard basket is too close to the programmer/management desk and is filling too quickly.

After the later comments, I came back to re-read this post.

Anyone who is truly in the commercial radio business should know that there is essentially no money in serving 55+ listeners (or "plus 55" as you oddly call them).

Commercial stations are intended to make money. So it is no surprise that broadcasters look for the least expensive option that will deliver an audience advertisers, either direct accounts or agency ones will want to buy. No business, be it WalMart or your local radio stations wanders around asking how they can increase the cost of doing business.

"Cluster / auditorium" music research. I have no idea what "cluster research" is and by "auditorium research" you must mean Auditorium Music Tests, or "AMT", and not feasibility studies about building new sports or entertainment venues. Assuming you mean (in again oddly stated terms) programming research. That, actually, has been the mode for music radio since the early 50's and anyone in the business would know that asking the listeners what they want is a desirable practice, albeit one not all stations can afford.

As to "content-destroying playout software" (hyphen inserted by me as otherwise it makes no sense), you are again using a term you have apparently invented. I have no ideas what "playout software" is, as you are again using unconventional or wrong terms; I presume you either mean 2) automated programming software such as WideOrbit or Prophet or Zetta or similar or 2) music scheduling software such as MusicMaster or Selector or PowerGold. In the case of program automation the industry has been doing that for 50 years... the systems are just better now and relieve the staff of much drudgery while making marginal stations profitable. In the case of music scheduling software, what we get is a better flow and feel in every hour because the software does things that no lone PD could do on their own such as optimizing horizontal and vertical rotations over many days' time.

Where is there an abuse of using digital storage and automated programming? I was doing voice tracking on automation systems in a very major market 40 years back and it made the stations better and got better ratings. Please name a case or example if you want to make a point.

You say "Clear Channel, Bill Clinton and RCS et al have a lot to answer for in degradation of radio as a medium. "

When you say "Bill Clinton" is somehow at fault for what you perceive radio's problem to be, you forget that in his administration only and just the final step in consolidation was taken. Consolidation was the natural effect of licensing too many stations, allowing too many station moves and upgrades (principally but not limited to Docket 80-90). You do not take into consideration that doubling the number of stations without radio ad revenue increasing reduced the billings of established stations, requiring (as b-turner's poignant example shows) extreme cost cutting and the curtailment of much local programming. By the time that the final consolidation act was passed, half of all stations ran without a profit.

RCS? Really? RCS? RCS (and I am guessing you mean, in the 90's era "Master Control" and not Selector) simply provided a product that stations wanted. Automation software, in fact, meant that many stations could quit using satellite formats and program locally without having a whole 24/7 staff on the payroll. As to Selector, that product simply made a PD's work better and more precise just as Word Perfect was an improvement on a Selectric.

Clear Channel? They, and many other companies just took advantage of a new regulation and grew. Again, the issue was a crowded market with too many signals. Blaming those with possible solutions for the FCC-based problem is disingenuous.

All this makes me severely doubt that you are in the business or have ever been in it. Simply stated, you use the wrong terms, blame the wrong things and conclude that all of us who run successful stations or have a part in running them are dim-witted morons (redundant, indeed) with no creativity or skills.

Wrong.

 

[davideduardo]

The best radio lies before us not behind us and that's what I look and strive for.

What you totally fail to address is the change in listener needs vs. business' ability to satisfy those needs at a profit.

Listeners increasingly want "pull" based content that is tailored to their taste. AM & FM radio is "push" based, trying to satisfy large groups with a curated music format or real-time talk format.

The AM & FM model is profitable. The "pull" model is not.

Most listeners don't want to pay for "pull" content, and limited ads or subscriptions on Pandora (as one example) are not yet a viable business model.

AM & FM listeners are spending fewer weekly hours with terrestrial stations, so rates can't increase.

The issue is giving listeners what they want and making money. Rather than criticizing the industry, tell us what you have done to solve this issue.

 

[Groove1670]

b-turner is correct. Automation is not a choice for most stations but a requirement for survival, and it is nothing new. I was loading reel to reels and recording tracks on carts 25 years ago, and many on here before that did it way before my time. Sonomag, Harris 90, Format Century... nothing new here except no more jammed Carousels, and snapped reels.

Competition has become fierce in smaller markets. I fight the battle everyday. A full time time staff is not a option, but with a well programmed system, you can sound great. The key is taking the time to make it sound good.