Station vs. personal library size

[radiodadtx66]

(deleted because I thought the reply was directed at me. Sorry.)

 

[davideduardo]

Here's the thing, David. Even a niche formatted station in LA or NYC probably has more listeners than the entire population of your average town out here in the heartland trying to support a station. Some such stations would never be able to make it out here because the specific demographic is just not large enough to support them.

Even in smaller markets, CHR is likely the best format choice if AC and country are already occupied. And we know that CHRs in smaller markets can daypart so that they are effectively Hot AC in certain time periods and full CHR in others.

Here is an example of how CHR did in smaller markets... in this case 6 stations that "made the book"... http://www.americanradiohistory.com/Archive-Ratings/Hooper-Roanoke.pdf

The CHR got a 55 share from noon to 6 PM. In nearly every market with 4 or 5 FMs or more, there is a place for CHR as it efficiently delivers adults 18-44.

 

[firepoint525]

Even in smaller markets, CHR is likely the best format choice if AC and country are already occupied. And we know that CHRs in smaller markets can daypart so that they are effectively Hot AC in certain time periods and full CHR in others.
Here is an example of how CHR did in smaller markets... in this case 6 stations that "made the book"... http://www.americanradiohistory.com/Archive-Ratings/Hooper-Roanoke.pdf
The CHR got a 55 share from noon to 6 PM. In nearly every market with 4 or 5 FMs or more, there is a place for CHR as it efficiently delivers adults 18-44.

Our top 40 station (at the time) dayparted with country music from sign-on until 7:00 a.m., then AC during the day, and top 40 after 3:00 p.m. once the kids were out of school. And of course, no full-time sports stations, so they typically broke format to carry high school football on Friday nights, college football on the weekends, and then basketball, once it was in season.

 

[davideduardo]

Our top 40 station (at the time) dayparted with country music from sign-on until 7:00 a.m., then AC during the day, and top 40 after 3:00 p.m. once the kids were out of school. And of course, no full-time sports stations, so they typically broke format to carry high school football on Friday nights, college football on the weekends, and then basketball, once it was in season.

That's the among the more complex CHRs I have heard about!

My first station, in 1964, was a Top 40 operation, but we programmed the equivalent of country in overnights. The feedback we got was so considerable that we were "forced" to buy a second station in the market and create an entire operation for that kind of music. At that point, the Top 40 did its format 24 / 7.

 

[Avid Listener]

The rank of stations within a given market also include the factor of strength or weakness of competition. It's easy to be #1 if all of your competitors are even worse than you are. As the saying goes, in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. When I listen to the radio, I'm limited to what's on the air in Atlanta. I do not like either of the stations I listen to most often, they both suck. But, the other stations suck even worse.

 

[R_F_Burns]

The rank of stations within a given market also include the factor of strength or weakness of competition. It's easy to be #1 if all of your competitors are even worse than you are. As the saying goes, in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. When I listen to the radio, I'm limited to what's on the air in Atlanta. I do not like either of the stations I listen to most often, they both suck. But, the other stations suck even worse.

yeah and it's easy to be #1 when all your competitors are in the same building.

 

[TheBigA]

yeah and it's easy to be #1 when all your competitors are in the same building.

There is no market where all of the radio stations are owned by the same company.

 

[PirateJohnny]

There is no market where all of the radio stations are owned by the same company.

Maybe not a market, but in some towns this is true. The two stations in Springfield, TN are owned by the same owner and operate in the same building.

 

[davideduardo]

Maybe not a market, but in some towns this is true. The two stations in Springfield, TN are owned by the same owner and operate in the same building.

Ever since FM came on the scene, there have been plenty of cases where one owner owned the only two stations in a town. The only difference now is that instead of AM / FM, they can be two FMs or two AMs.

In any case, markets are not defined by towns but by economic data. Outside rated metros where the FCC follows Nielsen market definitions, it is mostly about number of signals.

 

[TheBigA]

Maybe not a market, but in some towns this is true. The two stations in Springfield, TN are owned by the same owner and operate in the same building.

A couple of thousand watt AM daytimers.

 

[PirateJohnny]

Concerning my original question:

For my own entertainment I have built a radio station on my home computer. I have an automation program to select and play the music. My library covers 1954 to 1987. I have songs that only play during the day and songs that only play at night. During the day the mix is more 50s/60s and gradually changes to 70s/80s at night along with some "roots of rock" album tracks. I have tried to duplicate the sound of the local Top 40 AM station I grew up listening to and later worked at (75-77 and 80-83). I was even lucky enough to acquire all the jingles ever used. I've had it running 24/7 for the last four weeks. In the last week over 3000 different songs have played. Sure there were some songs I didn't really care for but there were also many I can only hear on "my" station. The local Classic Hits and Classic Rock stations (Hippy94.5 and 1059 The Rock, Nashville, TN) also play songs I don't really care for, but I still listen in the car. At home I go to "my" station for the bigger variety and less repetition. While I won't tune out Daddy Dewdrop's Chick-A-Boom (on 94.5) the first time I hear it on my drive home, I did when I heard it again the next day on my drive home (within 15 minutes of the exact same time). That's also on my "home" station but I haven't heard it play yet.

The point is my "home" station plays a larger library that the OTA stations, and that's why I don't listen to OTA radio at home - more of the songs I like and less repetition. My point is I feel this is OTA Radio's biggest competition. And with the trend of OTA Radio going to pre-recorded voice tracking (when there IS a voice) the "sound" of OTA Radio is not much different from personal collections (except for commercials). So why listen to a lifeless station that plays a small selection of music when a listener has more they want to listen to in their personal collection?

I can't help but wonder how a totally live station with a larger dayparted library would be received? I remember growing up in the 60s and 70s and choosing radio over my record collection. Radio was "alive" then.

 

[TheBigA]

My point is I feel this is OTA Radio's biggest competition. And with the trend of OTA Radio going to pre-recorded voice tracking (when there IS a voice) the "sound" of OTA Radio is not much different from personal collections (except for commercials). So why listen to a lifeless station that plays a small selection of music when a listener has more they want to listen to in their personal collection?

No radio station is trying to compete with your personal music collection, or anyone's personal collection. People have had their own personal collections for years. When The Beatles came out, and radio played their songs several times an hour, it still wasn't enough for the die-hard fans, who played Beatle songs non-stop. There will always be a difference between personal music collections and mass appeal radio stations. Listeners shouldn't confuse the two, or see one as competing with the other. It's simply not the case.

As for OTA hosting, it really hasn't changed on classic hits stations. Everyone knows that the presentation of the music is part of the attraction, so hosts in that format will be the last to go. Along with country, urban, and CHR. But what keeps the hosts paid is the demographics of the audience. Radio was "alive" in the 60s and 70s because the audience was younger, and more attractive to advertisers. The older the listeners become, the less attractive they are to advertisers, and the smaller the budget a station will have to pay staff. So that's a reality you just have to live with.

 

[Avid Listener]

There is no market where all of the radio stations are owned by the same company.

No, but there are markets where one or two companies own most of the stations with strong signals, and somehow, without actually discussing anything (because that would be illegal), each company concentrates on certain segments of the market. So, though there may be other stations in town, there are no other competitors who aren't also in the same building as you. For example, if you are operating a music format station, a sports-talk station is not your competitor.

 

[PirateJohnny]

No radio station is trying to compete with your personal music collection, or anyone's personal collection. People have had their own personal collections for years. When The Beatles came out, and radio played their songs several times an hour, it still wasn't enough for the die-hard fans, who played Beatle songs non-stop. There will always be a difference between personal music collections and mass appeal radio stations. Listeners shouldn't confuse the two, or see one as competing with the other. It's simply not the case.

My point is: there are only so many minutes in a day available to listen to music. When a listener chooses their own personal collection, OTA Radio loses a listener.

As for OTA hosting, it really hasn't changed on classic hits stations. Everyone knows that the presentation of the music is part of the attraction, so hosts in that format will be the last to go. Along with country, urban, and CHR. But what keeps the hosts paid is the demographics of the audience. Radio was "alive" in the 60s and 70s because the audience was younger, and more attractive to advertisers. The older the listeners become, the less attractive they are to advertisers, and the smaller the budget a station will have to pay staff. So that's a reality you just have to live with.

In other thread on a radio forum (maybe this forum, I've read so many today) it was announced that a Sirius or XM (whoever is still on the air) is dropping DJs on their 50s and 90s stations. And I hear quite a few OTA stations with DJs playing songs older than they are. Very few are able to "present" them they we heard them when they were new. And that's what we miss. That's what made/makes radio exciting, and preferable to a personal collection.

 

[TheBigA]

My point is: there are only so many minutes in a day available to listen to music. When a listener chooses their own personal collection, OTA Radio loses a listener.

Oh well. You can't worry about something you can't control, and radio can't be all things to all people. Never has, and never will.

it was announced that a Sirius or XM (whoever is still on the air) is dropping DJs on their 50s and 90s stations. And I hear quite a few OTA stations with DJs playing songs older than they are. Very few are able to "present" them they we heard them when they were new. And that's what we miss.

First of all, a lot of the artists from the 60s are passing away. Same with many of the DJs from that era. That's what happens to older music. You can't stay young forever.

With regards to the 50s on 5 change, it's a testament to what I was saying: As the music gets older, so does the audience. Then the audience gets smaller as they pass away. My point is that for the classic hits format, it's generally presented by DJs. That's how it will remain as long as the format is viable. Other generations aren't as wedded to DJ presentation, and for them, it's less important.

 

[davideduardo]

No, but there are markets where one or two companies own most of the stations with strong signals,

Save a couple of small markets with illogical geography that really are not metros at all, that is not true.

and somehow, without actually discussing anything (because that would be illegal), each company concentrates on certain segments of the market.

If two companies each have 5 FMs and there are a dozen or so viable formats, don't you think that market forces will cause owners to pick the simplest solution in each case? Only where there are big shares for one format (CHR or Regional Mexican in LA, for example) do you have two stations in the same format because there is enough to go around.

So, though there may be other stations in town, there are no other competitors who aren't also in the same building as you.

Other than the oddities like Minot (which the FCC tabulates by including Bismark in the totals) I don't think you can give me any real conclusive examples.

For example, if you are operating a music format station, a sports-talk station is not your competitor.

There are no more and no less than 100 shares. Every station is a competitor. In fact, if I had any kind of rock format, the sports station is likely what I'd consider my biggest competitor.

 

[firepoint525]

The local Classic Hits and Classic Rock stations (Hippy94.5 and 1059 The Rock, Nashville, TN) also play songs I don't really care for, but I still listen in the car. At home I go to "my" station for the bigger variety and less repetition. While I won't tune out Daddy Dewdrop's Chick-A-Boom (on 94.5) the first time I hear it on my drive home, I did when I heard it again the next day on my drive home (within 15 minutes of the exact same time). That's also on my "home" station but I haven't heard it play yet.

Hippie also has a way of repeating the same song you just heard 10-15 minutes ago (on the SAME day). I have also noticed that they load the same SET of songs into their computer on successive days.

But even that pales when compared to the old 97.1 when they were WRQQ. They once played "Living Thing" by ELO four times straight! They also played other songs two and three times consecutively like that.

 

[Tibbs4]

Hey Fire, when do you hear Hippie repeating like that? The music is selected by a special program that is supposed to prevent songs from replaying for several days. If anything, the music should be less repetitious. As for songs being repeated in short intervals, one thing that might be happening is songs that are being requested during one shift, are played in normal rotation on the next shift. Most of the time the person on the air will not look at the the previous playlist. Sadly, an actual attempt to play requests is a flawed process.

As for RQQ, one can only remember those golden daze of triple and quadruple plays. What a fun era that ended up being! Not sure what automation system they used, but I do have my guess. Anyone have want to name the system that would play ELO four times?

 

[davideduardo]

The music is selected by a special program that is supposed to prevent songs from replaying for several days. If anything, the music should be less repetitious.

Music Scheduling software like MusicMaster, Selector and Power Gold are capable of protecting songs from playing too soon or playing in the same timeframe as they last played. They also have the ability to keep the same artist from playing too soon, or things like two or more songs of the same "kind" (Motown, British Invasion, Bubblegum, Hard Rock, etc) from playing back to back... and much more. But for that to work, someone with considerable skill needs to set up the program with rules that apply to the station's unique library and goals. If that is not done, s--t happens.

 

[firepoint525]

Hey Fire, when do you hear Hippie repeating like that? The music is selected by a special program that is supposed to prevent songs from replaying for several days. If anything, the music should be less repetitious. As for songs being repeated in short intervals, one thing that might be happening is songs that are being requested during one shift, are played in normal rotation on the next shift. Most of the time the person on the air will not look at the the previous playlist. Sadly, an actual attempt to play requests is a flawed process.

Since most of their shifts are apparently voice-tracked at least a few minutes ahead of time, occasionally, a music set will play twice within a 15-minute interval. This is within one shift. I have often also heard the inter-shift repetition that you mention here, as well.

Recently, I had a job in which I had to be in so early, that I would hear the 5:00 a.m. hour on Hippie on the way in. On a couple of occasions, they played the same entire SET of songs a couple of days in a row. Maybe they thought that with it being so early, no one would notice.

As for RQQ, one can only remember those golden daze of triple and quadruple plays. What a fun era that ended up being! Not sure what automation system they used, but I do have my guess. Anyone have want to name the system that would play ELO four times?

Seemed like it always happened in the 1:30 to 2:00 p.m. time frame on Monday afternoons, if that provides clues to anyone. Not sure if it didn't also happen at other times that I was not aware of.