Station

[CompleteGame]

When will the WJBB translator be on the new CP? Last time I tried to tune into 107.1 I still got the WTSH La Raza signal out of Rome.

Hey Jabba, we've been broadcasting from 1412' since January. It's a highly directional pattern given the limitations with the dual Hispanic signals to the south and west. Our mission is to be dominant to the north and east and if there's any listenership on the Mall of Georgia side of Flowery branch, then that's gravy. It's a good car signal as far south as 316 going from Dacula to Athens. I've been very pleased with how it sounds in Athens actually; we're picking up listeners in Athens anecdotally. City of Gainesville is good and it's a good car signal north to Habersham and over to Commerce which is 35-40 miles from the tower.

But no question it's a highly directional signal and translators don't give you everything you want.

 

[jabba17]

Hey Jabba, we've been broadcasting from 1412' since January. It's a highly directional pattern given the limitations with the dual Hispanic signals to the south and west. Our mission is to be dominant to the north and east and if there's any listenership on the Mall of Georgia side of Flowery branch, then that's gravy. It's a good car signal as far south as 316 going from Dacula to Athens. I've been very pleased with how it sounds in Athens actually; we're picking up listeners in Athens anecdotally. City of Gainesville is good and it's a good car signal north to Habersham and over to Commerce which is 35-40 miles from the tower.

But no question it's a highly directional signal and translators don't give you everything you want.

I think the last time I tuned in you were using a much weaker signal...was that translator at one time over near Winder itself and just a few watts? I remember one time tuning it in on 316 near Winder and it didn't last long along 316 before it got stomped by WTSH.

That Chateau Elan tower really carries...River and TOSOTR really carry on that tower, and TOSOTR is only 75 watts and very directional. I've gotten the old WFOX all the way in Columbia, SC.

Radio-Locator shows a nondirectional signal but I'll take your word for it...I just went out to the car (I'm off Old Ptree Road on the northern side) and I heard Rick Derringer loud and clear. Next time I head out I'll see how it sounds on the other side of the ridge.

 

[CompleteGame]

TOSOTR IS an excellent signal. If they're higher on that tower than we are, it can't be by much. I haven't really looked at their antenna data, but it must be non-directional. It's a 7 out of 10 at my house in Tucker and an 8 out of 10 near my 97.7 translator in Hiawassee. That's 100 miles of signal for a translator.

I do notice that the "clutter" around a frequency is important. I've got a translator in Habersham at 94.3 stuck between 100k Star 94.1 and 100k Talk 94.5 out of Greenville. Meanwhile the 107.7 translator on the same tower at the same elevation carries better.

You can go crazy trying to improve your translator situation.

 

[AmyMegan]

Not an AM and not off the air for a year, but the former WACF 95.1 (Young Harris GA) now WJRB had financial issues. The original owner with fortune 500 management experience had bad advise. The station is doing quite well now.

Thats always good to hear.

 

[Cay Daze]

Thats always good to hear.

Amy,

You started a fascinating thread.

Sadly, when AM began its slide, and all the LMA's kicked up -- with the owner/operator turning over the keys and walking away from the station and leaving in it in the hands of the, almost always, inept LMA'er (they love radio; or yakkin', but have no broadcast acumen) -- you end up with situations like this. Of course, LPFM, that's a whole other discussion, but those "operators" can be as technically and law challenged as most AM operators (of the small stations the big guys don't want).

Anyway, I won't mention the operator, but it was female owned-operated company. She bought up several Florida AMs, low-watt Class Bs and Cs for a specialized foreign language format -- not Caribbean or Latin -- certainly under served. Fair enough.

Then the FCC fines started. Tower lights. EBS Tests. Not having a company employee onsite to babysit the LMA entity. Inspectors show up, want the public inspection files -- and no one knows what "that means" or "where that is." Then, when owner "complied" and "hired" someone to be onsite, they had no management (nor radio, from how it reads) experience, and was even more inept when the FCC showed up to reinspect. And the violations piled up, and up.

One of the stations was purchased, by the new owner paying the FCC fines -- and got it for song, far below market value.

There was another instance -- different company -- they had an LMA with a Caribbean group, and a right to buy. Bla, bla, bla, the LMA wasn't paying fees, misoperation the station, etc. The deal falls part.

There just a lot of entities getting into radio, buying stations, that shouldn't. Yes, everyone should have airwave access. And I applaud the entrepreneurial spirit. But there's laws, regulations to follow. And there's presentation of the product. And you need to check the egos and greed and be a good steward to the frequency you've been given the privilege to operate -- which takes us back to the beginning of the thread with the story you shared that started this conversation.

 

[Cay Daze]

Question. Ive been in contact with someone that owns an AM station in GA. Its been off air for two years. She reported it off air and hired a sleeze bag consultant that filed an STA saying she rebuilt and is operating at low power on a wire but that's an outright lie but she signed a power of attorney giving him the right to file this. There is no wire and no electric bill for two years. The consultant now has a buyer and ASCAP wants paid fees for the last year operating on an STA that isnt really there. If caught is she in trouble ? The consultants 20k fee comes out of the sale of the station. If she stops the sale he can sue. I contacted her because this same consultant hacked in to my FCC FRN acct and filed some stations amd he did sue me. Cost me an arm and a leg to defend myself.The problem is she has allowed this to go on since Sept. The consultant filed a resumption of operations in Sept.

Argh. Stations with STA and long wires across the parking lot or the pasture. But sometimes, you just gotta do it.

 

[Cay Daze]

The broker would have a tough time winning a case if he in fact made false filings with the FCC and the licensee's only transgression was correcting the record.

The FCC enforcement bureau has not ceased operations. The bureau recently began fact-finding proceedings against a station in Birmingham which is accused of being off the air longer than the permissible 1 year and filing false notifications of resumption of operation, after filing for a sale.

Anybody could notify the enforcement bureau at any time that a station is off the air long-term.

Obviously I'm a disc jockey who couldn't make it in the biz, not an attorney.

I've heard so much, so many on air violations over the years: Out and out signal interference. Hearing stations (AM and FM) in an area where I shouldn't be able to hear the station in the first place. Robo A.I. stations playing hours upon hours of music with no Hour IDs, that should be at three minutes before or after the hour (not even at five after on either side! none!), for months and months on end. Hour IDs with an improper COL paired with the calls. (The COL is where the x-mitter is, not your "studios"; moving a studio doesn't change your city of license.)

Then there's the brokered AM hosts spewing incendiary opinions -- outright threats to a public or political figure. (And not just a social, pop-culture faux pas that causes an "image" problem and a public relations firing/broker contact cancelling; an outright threat that a certain government official "should be hanged" and they (the host) will bring the weenies, meaning, to "burn" the figure.)

On the business end: Blatant paperwork hocus pocus -- which not only violated FCC rules, but was "shell gaming" broker clients and cheating them, outright. You've heard in mob flicks, the plot of "two sets of books," right? Ever hear of a station with two sets of books; that is, logs? Yep. Filling (fudging) in days and days, weeks of x-mitter logs because no one took readings? Two sets of program logs -- and the money goes "under the table" into a person's pocket and not into the stations coffers, and the owner wonders why the the "station isn't making any money"? Yes, clients on the air, paying fees, but they're not "officially" on the air because they're not "in the system." Stations off air for several months and not filing paperwork?

Yes. It happens. More than you know. We've all been there.

 

[Cay Daze]

I think the FCC's hands are usually tied when the station has been off the air for more than a year due to regulations. I know of one station (outside of a major market) where the primary station has been down for more than 2 years and they are just originating content from their translator (illegal). They have even taken the primary station antenna down. I think if someone complained, I'm sure the license would be cancelled. I don't think the current owner knows (or cares) the rules well enough to realize this.

Amen, Ray. They don't know or care enough to realize it. Amen.

 

[b-turner]

There is no rule that the legal ID be within 3 minutes of the top of the hour.

You are correct. There are many people running stations that shouldn't be and who fudge on the rules too often. Hopefully more are concerned with being responsible broadcasters but the tougher it gets and the fewer the options are for paying the bills, the louder anyone with a few dollars is. Unfortunately you sometimes have to take some cash you'd rather not take.

 

[Cay Daze]

There is no rule that the legal ID be within 3 minutes of the top of the hour.

You are correct. There are many people running stations that shouldn't be and who fudge on the rules too often. Hopefully more are concerned with being responsible broadcasters but the tougher it gets and the fewer the options are for paying the bills, the louder anyone with a few dollars is. Unfortunately you sometimes have to take some cash you'd rather not take.

Hi! Yes. No official rule, but that's how it was always drilled into my head at many outlets. It's about good stewardship. But there has to be an Hour ID. To not run a legal ID at all or run an ID with a wrong COL? A call sign paired with the "city" location of your studio, doesn't fly.

 

[b-turner]

I have to share this: I was in Houston at an AM licensed to Cypress. There was a mental block among programmers (lots of specialty and foreign language stuff on Saturdays and Sunday afternoon). They did the legal IDs on multi-hour shows until I put a stop to it. I would sit them down and say what are the call letters and what is this city, now put them together. They'd get it perfect. Then on the air I'd get KYND right here in Cypress or KYND 1520 in Houston coming to you from Cypress. I recorded a simple KYND, Cypress, Houston, AM 1520 and had my board ops run it. I've never seen anything like it. The religious broadcasters gave me the most grief about the legal ID. One guy from a South American country went off on me after refusing to do an ID. I told him I sold him the time but I let him use our studio for free and if he continued the tirade he was banned from the station's studio and I was charging him for the time because we had a contract. His reason for skipping the legal ID: it doesn't matter and the FCC isn't listening. Then he used the 'religion card' saying he followed God, not man's rules. It's an attitude with some that I think is a carry-over from their native country. In too many nations the governments are always creating barriers for people, so they have to find a workaround. Here we tend to follow the law because the law work for our benefit. They don't have that expectation and consider stuff like a legal ID or authorized power or sunrise and sunset times as hindering their work. The way I figured it, the legal ID isn't a big deal and for what some were paying I had a breaking point where too much grief or hassle made them not worth the trouble.

 

[Cay Daze]

I have to share this: I was in Houston at an AM licensed to Cypress. There was a mental block among programmers (lots of specialty and foreign language stuff on Saturdays and Sunday afternoon). They did the legal IDs on multi-hour shows until I put a stop to it. I would sit them down and say what are the call letters and what is this city, now put them together. They'd get it perfect. Then on the air I'd get KYND right here in Cypress or KYND 1520 in Houston coming to you from Cypress. I recorded a simple KYND, Cypress, Houston, AM 1520 and had my board ops run it. I've never seen anything like it. The religious broadcasters gave me the most grief about the legal ID. One guy from a South American country went off on me after refusing to do an ID. I told him I sold him the time but I let him use our studio for free and if he continued the tirade he was banned from the station's studio and I was charging him for the time because we had a contract. His reason for skipping the legal ID: it doesn't matter and the FCC isn't listening. Then he used the 'religion card' saying he followed God, not man's rules. It's an attitude with some that I think is a carry-over from their native country. In too many nations the governments are always creating barriers for people, so they have to find a workaround. Here we tend to follow the law because the law work for our benefit. They don't have that expectation and consider stuff like a legal ID or authorized power or sunrise and sunset times as hindering their work. The way I figured it, the legal ID isn't a big deal and for what some were paying I had a breaking point where too much grief or hassle made them not worth the trouble.

I worked with these clients . . . well, clients just like them. The same exact problem, the same attitude, the same illogical reasoning whey they shouldn't do this or that. A carbon copy: it's like an indoctrination radio brokering school. The Hour ID with all the "bla, bla" in between -- and when you put the ID on cart -- they refused to allow it to air "during the time they bought." It's wasn't just you.

They bought the hour . . . and wanted the full 60 minutes. "You're stealing six minutes from me," they say. "I want a credit for my six minutes." And the B.Os: I don't blame them. You'd play the cue music, and the client would not go off the air. So, we had the B.O. just cut them off; dump into the show close. And it was like the "South American" client you mentioned at that point, just ranting to the point of giving themselves an aneurysm. One client pushed into the studio, past the board operator (into the wall) to get to the board to "put his show back on the air." (Yes, and with much fanfare, the client was out -- but didn't go quietly . . . for weeks. Yes, the threatening phone messages, and lawsuit, came next. The client even managed to get a half dozen people to picket for a week. Radio stars.)

It would be explained, at the time of sale, your "hour" is 54 minutes, we have six minutes of avails, 3 on each side, for spots, weather, news, (ID), station promos, if any. (Your 30 minutes is 27, etc.) Never failed. Never a day without a "you're ripping me off" and "you're dishonest" rant.

As you said, wanting to make a quality product vs. grief and hassle? You let them do whatever at that point. Yes, the carry-over from their native country, point you made -- about the workaround, barrier they faced back home, etc. I agree. And we thougth that way, trying to be in their shoes and find understanding . . . to no avail.

Good tale! Thanks for taking the time to share. It really took me back!!

 

[davideduardo]

Hi! Yes. No official rule, but that's how it was always drilled into my head at many outlets. It's about good stewardship. But there has to be an Hour ID

The rule now requires an hourly ID at a "break in programming".

Many, many major market music stations interpret the rule to mean that a music sweep does not have to be interrupted with the station ID, so they put the ID in the closest stopset, often around :45 to :48 in the hour. This interpretation has not been questioned for many many years.

It's likely the FCC realizes that call letters and IDs are an anachronism and they allow great flexibility in the compliance with the rule. At some point, they should allow the ID to be delivered in the same way that the Nielsen PPM IDs are broadcast... inaudible to the listener.

 

[Cay Daze]

The rule now requires an hourly ID at a "break in programming".

Many, many major market music stations interpret the rule to mean that a music sweep does not have to be interrupted with the station ID, so they put the ID in the closest stopset, often around :45 to :48 in the hour. This interpretation has not been questioned for many many years.

It's likely the FCC realizes that call letters and IDs are an anachronism and they allow great flexibility in the compliance with the rule. At some point, they should allow the ID to be delivered in the same way that the Nielsen PPM IDs are broadcast... inaudible to the listener.

Ah, thanks for clarifying. But . . . a facetious question: it is still calls/COL, right (of the transmitter)? Just because a facility moved to new studios -- and crossed a border into a new city -- doesn't mean the ID changes, to calls/city the studios are located. That can't be right.

But, yes . . . social media tie-ins, websites for stations, morphs everything. I got to get up to date!

 

[davideduardo]

Ah, thanks for clarifying. But . . . a facetious question: it is still calls/COL, right (of the transmitter)? Just because a facility moved to new studios -- and crossed a border into a new city -- doesn't mean the ID changes, to calls/city the studios are located. That can't be right.

But, yes . . . social media tie-ins, websites for stations, morphs everything. I got to get up to date!

Yes, it is Calls (optional insert) and COL. In the optional location between the Calls and COL you can put the owner, for example (licensee or licensee's owner).

From the FCC: Between the call letters and its community, the station may insert the name of the licensee, the station’s channel number, and/or its frequency. It may also include any additional community or communities, as long as it first names the community to which it is licensed by the FCC.

So a station licensed to Newark can ID as "WZZZ, World Broadcasting Company, Newark, New York and New Jersey!" or one licensed to Ft. Worth can be "KAAA, Ft. Worth, Dallas and all of the Metroplex".

 

[PTBoardOp94]

The community of license has nothing to do with where the transmitter is. To continue with the Newark theme, WBGO is licensed to Newark and has studios in Newark, but has its transmitter at 4 Times Square in New York City. Their correct legal ID is "WBGO, Newark".

The community of license has never been tied to the transmitter location. WLW has had its transmitter in Mason, Ohio since the 1920s, but their legal ID is and has always been "WLW, Cincinnati".

The community of license is mostly a blank you fill in on a form. It's primary regulatory meaning these days is that the broadcast facility must provide a minimum level of signal to the community of license.

 

[jabba17]

The community of license has nothing to do with where the transmitter is. To continue with the Newark theme, WBGO is licensed to Newark and has studios in Newark, but has its transmitter at 4 Times Square in New York City. Their correct legal ID is "WBGO, Newark".

The community of license has never been tied to the transmitter location. WLW has had its transmitter in Mason, Ohio since the 1920s, but their legal ID is and has always been "WLW, Cincinnati".

The community of license is mostly a blank you fill in on a form. It's primary regulatory meaning these days is that the broadcast facility must provide a minimum level of signal to the community of license.

The community of license is whatever the FCC says it is. Even if it no longer exists under that name (looking at you, WCNN North Atlanta).

 

[davideduardo]

The community of license is whatever the FCC says it is. Even if it no longer exists under that name (looking at you, WCNN North Atlanta).

One can present documents asking for a change in COL based on the original one being annexed by another town or something similar. It just takes paperwork and legal fees.

I got WUNO changed from Río Piedras to San Juan 10 years after San Juan absorbed the other municipality. It took a big copy paper box to ship all the documents, including approved translations of the annexation documents. The FCC had, back then, a problem understanding that in Puerto Rico legal documents are not done in English

 

[secondchoice]

It's likely the FCC realizes that call letters and IDs are an anachronism and they allow great flexibility in the compliance with the rule. At some point, they should allow the ID to be delivered in the same way that the Nielsen PPM IDs are broadcast... inaudible to the listener.

Could a form of RDS work? That would allow the public identify a station if they ever wanted too but not "interrupt' programing.

IMHO stations should have the option to ID with their MSA (Metropolitan Statistical Area) as their COL if they are in one if the vocal ID continue to be legally required.

 

[ContinuousWave]

I have to share this: I was in Houston at an AM licensed to Cypress. There was a mental block among programmers (lots of specialty and foreign language stuff on Saturdays and Sunday afternoon). They did the legal IDs on multi-hour shows until I put a stop to it. I would sit them down and say what are the call letters and what is this city, now put them together. They'd get it perfect. Then on the air I'd get KYND right here in Cypress or KYND 1520 in Houston coming to you from Cypress. I recorded a simple KYND, Cypress, Houston, AM 1520 and had my board ops run it. I've never seen anything like it. The religious broadcasters gave me the most grief about the legal ID. One guy from a South American country went off on me after refusing to do an ID. I told him I sold him the time but I let him use our studio for free and if he continued the tirade he was banned from the station's studio and I was charging him for the time because we had a contract. His reason for skipping the legal ID: it doesn't matter and the FCC isn't listening. Then he used the 'religion card' saying he followed God, not man's rules. It's an attitude with some that I think is a carry-over from their native country. In too many nations the governments are always creating barriers for people, so they have to find a workaround. Here we tend to follow the law because the law work for our benefit. They don't have that expectation and consider stuff like a legal ID or authorized power or sunrise and sunset times as hindering their work. The way I figured it, the legal ID isn't a big deal and for what some were paying I had a breaking point where too much grief or hassle made them not worth the trouble.

The religious right tend to think they are above the law....but forget Jesus' saying, give to Caeser what is Caeser's and give to God what is God's
Can we say hypocrite?? Sure I knew that you can