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STATIONS' COST TO OPPERATE SUB-CHANNELS

How expensive is it for a station to opperate their sub-channels?

I see most of the sub-channels on PBS, ION or religious stations. That leads me to believe
the cost can't be all that great. Most of the networks (RTV, THIS, etc.) are on more of a
barter basis, so the stations aren't really paying for anything but the physical broadcast
(and set up).

If so, why aren't more stations doing it? This seems to be the GROWTH area in TV right
now, so why not take advantage of it and get on board early?
 
Just a guess on my part:

Sub-channels take up bandwidth and reduce the main channel's PQ (from full 1080 to something less). Stations carrying sports (basically all four network affiliates) do some harm to their PQ by lowering it too far and thus inducing jitter when the action pans quickly.

PBS and religious channels don't usually air sports and don't require high-definition bandwidth.
 
Around me:
CBS has no sub-channels and operates at 1080i (but they also own a UHF station also with no sub-channels and also operating at 1080i).
NBC has two with the main channel at 10801.
ABC has two with the main channel at 720p.
PBS has two with the main channel at 1080i.
My TV has one with the main channel at 720p.
Fox has none and operates at 720p.

I'm not engineer but there doesn't seem much correlation between main channel pixels and availability of sub-channels.
 
ABC, CBS and NBC in my market all have one sub but it's a weather/traffic loop with very little movement (mostly moving text) so my guess is it doesn't impact the main channel too much.

The FOX affiliate (RF 10) has one sub but it is, in fact, a UHF service delivering the main channel signal because RF 10 is constantly breaking up. I'm not sure if this is considered a true sub or not.

The PBS station (RF 8) offers Create, World and an audio service on it's three subs but the main channel doesn't carry fast-moving scenes normally so is apparently unaffected.
 
landtuna said:
The FOX affiliate (RF 10) has one sub but it is, in fact, a UHF service delivering the main channel signal because RF 10 is constantly breaking up. I'm not sure if this is considered a true sub or not.

KSAZ 10 has no subchannels. The Fox repeater that has a PSIP of 10.2 is a subchannel of co-owned KUTP. Its two feeds are 45.1 (My45 HD) and 10.2 (Fox-10 SD) on RF channel 26.
 
In Atlanta WSB makes the most out of RTV. They plug in WSB promos and even local commercials sometimes. They have even interupted RTV to show local high school football.

I think that is what sub-channels are really supposed to be. THERE, but with the local option to insert
promos, some commercials and even "other" programs.
So, they can also make money from them.
 
gregg75 said:
In Atlanta WSB makes the most out of RTV. They plug in WSB promos and even local commercials sometimes. They have even interupted RTV to show local high school football.

I think that is what sub-channels are really supposed to be. THERE, but with the local option to insert promos, some commercials and even "other" programs. So, they can also make money from them.

Both RTV and THIS are subs of indie stations in my market. I don't remember THIS ever showing local commercials or promos for their host station. Their commercials tend to be the blue-screen variety of cheap junk, burial plans and insurance scams for seniors. I haven't watched RTV in a long time but seem to remember seeing some local commercials every once in awhile but very rarely.

RTV is irritating to watch with their out-of-focus video and out-of-sync audio and THIS has way too many commercial interruptions which go on forever. Any viewing of THIS is done via DVR and the ads get zapped.

As for revenue, I don't think either sub is carried on local cable or sat so, at best, they are reaching less than 15% of market. That can't mean much money.
 
landtuna said:
As for revenue, I don't think either sub is carried on local cable or sat so, at best, they are reaching less than 15% of market. That can't mean much money.

RTV is on channel 93 if one has Cox digital cable. That was part of the delay in getting RTV going - KAZT was trying to work out cable coverage. ThisTV is not carried.

Neither network is available on satellite in Phoenix.
 
In Jackson, TN WLJT (PBS) has Create and may have just picked up Sprout, and it just recently dropped World. WBBJ (ABC) is carrying the same programming as the main channel with SAP when it is available, and weather radar with NOAA weather radio. That doesn't sound like much, but it's better than WJKT (Fox), which is doing absolutely nothing with subchannels. I wish either WBBJ or WJKT would get Antenna TV, but I'm not holding my breath. Neither of them seem to really want to bring anything good in on their subchannels.

In Memphis WMC (NBC) is doing the most with their subchannels with Weather Plus and This TV. WLMT (CW) has RTV. WREG (CBS) has a 24 hour news network, but they are picking up Antenna TV in January. WKNO (PBS) has a subchannel called WKNO 2, but I'm not sure what they have on it. WPXX (ION) has Qubo and ION Life (I think). WHBQ (Fox) and WPTY (ABC) are doing nothing.

I don't know why that a station wouldn't want to carry at least one subchannel as a way to pull in more viewers and ad dollars, even if it was just by leasing to another carrier. Something else I've wondered is why the major networks don't come up with specialty subchannels like ION has done. The only exception to me would be the all infomercial/shopping channels. I wouldn't want to see another subchannel with more of the same garbage as the main channel. ::)
 
anotherguy said:
I don't know why that a station wouldn't want to carry at least one subchannel as a way to pull in more viewers and ad dollars, even if it was just by leasing to another carrier.

I agree. My local Fox has plenty of bandwidth left unused. I'd be ecstatic if they'd move all those crummy judge shows to the sub and free up the main channel for quality - even if only talk or game shows.

And, as far as the Big Three network affiliates, Phoenix is one market that definitely does NOT need three weather subs. You'd think some station suit would be bright enough to develop some unique programming for their sub. Even if it was cartoons and kids' material in the afternoon it would draw more viewers than weather loops.

anotherguy said:
Something else I've wondered is why the major networks don't come up with specialty subchannels like ION has done.

I've had the same thought. Maybe they don't think there are enough viewers or maybe the cost of obtaining programming exceeds anticipated revenue.
 
The major WRENCH in the system seems to be cable and satellite. It looks like many locals are not going to do anything because subs are hardly ever carried on the those systems.

Which is really pathetic. If Direct TV can carry the Golf Channel, why can't they carry RTV or something more popular than the Gospel Music Channel?

I am not your usual subscriber, but I have no problem in switching off the cable/satellite and going local subs. The picture is crystal clear on most.
 
You're right, that was just the first odd channel I saw in the guide.

I think it would be easier for local cable to add local subs than Dish or Direct. That would be like a new station in town.......flip the switch. They could even use that as a calling card "we carry all local subs."

Looks like these subs are the new UHF......just sitting there.....trying as hard as they can to stick
around. Could the FCC give them a hand and pull them out of the water by requiring that they be carried? Here the FCC created these sub channels......and that's all they had in mind......their
creation? Brother can you spare a dime?
 
gregg75 said:
The major WRENCH in the system seems to be cable and satellite. It looks like many locals are not going to do anything because subs are hardly ever carried on the those systems.

Charter in Jackson, TN is carrying the subchannels from WBBJ and WLJT in Jackson and WMC in Memphis. They're in the Digital Home package (Basic plus a few digital channels), but I wish they were in the basic package. For some odd reason they also carry WFVF in Nashville's News Channel 5+ subchannel, although they don't carry the main channel. I'm hoping that they will carry Antenna TV from WREG in Memphis once it's on.

MarcB said:
gregg75 said:
If Direct TV can carry the Golf Channel, why can't they carry RTV or something more popular than the Gospel Music Channel?

GMC has a lot of great shows: AMEN, Highway to Heaven, Dr. Quinn, Early Edition, DOC, Sue Thomas FBEye, 227, Sister Sister, and lots of Good Movies.

GMC has become what PAX/i/ION started out as. That's actually not bad, but in effect they've done like so many other channels and gone away from what they started out as. They either need to get back to showing Christian music videos or change their name.
 
gregg75 said:
The major WRENCH in the system seems to be cable and satellite. It looks like many locals are not going to do anything because subs are hardly ever carried on the those systems......I am not your usual subscriber, but I have no problem in switching off the cable/satellite and going local subs. The picture is crystal clear on most.

Your thoughts are dead-on target. Since 90-98% of the viewers are watching via cable/satellite systems, the subchannels are being treated as an afterthought. Most viewers cannot even comprehend channel "3.2" or "18.3". Until the subchannels get cable carriage, they are likely to remain mostly unused. And even with cable carriage, they will remain unwatched unless and until the channels are placed near their primary channels. Otherwise, they get lost in the mix with all those other rarely watched channels.

I am about 70 miles from Sacramento and receive most stations regularly (Chico stations are just 30 miles away, so I use them for primary viewing). The NBC affiliate in Sacramento KCRA recently ditched their WeatherPlus on 3.2 and launched MoreTV! KCRA repurposes several of the shows it carries on KCRA and KCQA, including the 11PM news. They also feature commercials throughout the day on KCRA, promoting 3.2 with its Cosby reruns, etc. Watching the commercial, you see a big part of the problem. Yes, they can tell folks to watch 3.1 and 3.2. Then they throw up a slide of the half-dozen cable companies in the region and blurt out "On blah-blah cable, watch MoreTV on Channel XYZ. On this-that cable, tune in on Channel PGR. For viewers in Wherever cable, watch channel 3.2 on channel JKL." Huh? It's confusing and forces too much pain on the viewer to actually find the subchannel.

As for satellite, I cannot imagine that either Dish or DTV would ever carry any subchannels. They don't have the bandwidth. The only hope is that some of the re-transmission agreements reached with broadcast networks would include demands to carry their subchannels. Even then, that would only cover the O+O's and not every rinky dink affiliate in 200+ markets.

Awareness and carriage are two mega-factors. Third, let's not forget that we are still mostly languishing in a virtually-dead economy, with affiliates doing everything under the sun to cut costs and avoid any expenditure of any type. When the money is rolling in for your main business ventures, you can focus your efforts on smaller niche revenue opportunities. But when your salesmen cannot even sell out time on the local news........
 
MarcB said:
anotherguy said:
They either need to get back to showing Christian music videos or change their name.

They still show Gopsel Programming. And they did change their name. Their branding used to be Gospel Music Channel. Now they're just branding as GMC.

With that name they could run shows about trucks! :D
 
General Mucky-muck Channel?
 
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