STATION'S I CAN NO LONGER HEAR THANKS TO HD "TECHNOLOGY".

[radiotower40]

I thought I would put this out here to see how HD supporters can defend this.

I live in Chicago, and want to let people know how many station's have "vanished" due to AM HD.

Here is a list of station's I used to listen to at times that I can no longer hear.

AM 1180 WSQR Sycamore- De Kalb( WRTO AM 1200 hash)
AM 1280 WBIG Aurora (WRDZ AM 1300 hash)
AM 1320 WKAN Kankakee(WRDZ AM 1300 hash)
AM 1360 WLBK De Kalb(WGRB AM 1390 hash, note this is a third adjacent)
AM 1370 WLTH Gary, IN. (Again WGRB hash)
AM 1410 WRMN Elgin (WGRB's strike 3)
AM 1670 WTDY Madison, WI. (nightime, WVON hash)

That is SEVEN stations I used to be able to listen too, that I can no longer hear due to HD on AM.

I must also note that on days when WRTO or WRDZ's HD exciter is not on WSQR and WKAN come in
fine on my car radio.

When HD radio first came out I thought it sounded very promising, but; like communism it looks good
on paper yet in the real world, it is the worst form of government.

How many of you have experienced the same?

This "technology" is like a bad relationship, you keep trying to make it work, because you've invested
so much into it. As we all know sometimes things are meant to end, so we can move on to greener pasture's
The longer you hold on to something that isn't working, the harder it is to recover from it once it's over.

I'm sorry if my analogies are a bit of stretch(and a little corny , but; I felt it was the best way to get my
point across.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

Here is a list of station's I used to listen to at times that I can no longer hear.
When HD radio first came out I thought it sounded very promising, but; like communism it looks good
on paper yet in the real world, it is the worst form of government.

How many of you have experienced the same?

This "technology" is like a bad relationship, you keep trying to make it work, because you've invested
so much into it. As we all know sometimes things are meant to end, so we can move on to greener pasture's
The longer you hold on to something that isn't working, the harder it is to recover from it once it's over.

I'm sorry if my analogies are a bit of stretch(and a little corny , but; I felt it was the best way to get my
point across.

Location - Houston

Lost KAAM 770, drowned out by KBME hash. KAAM is also much weaker due to its own IBOC.

My analogy is also pretty lame - second hand smoke.

 

[Savage]

"Naysayers!" "DXers!" Phooey on you two!! It's all YOUR FAULT for trying to listen to stations outside their PROTECTED CONTOURS! Don't you both know better by now?

(Of course IBOC stations also get to interfere INSIDE stations' protected contours, because....well.....ummm....they just do.)

You guys really have to read the memos. iBiquity and the HD-pushers have given everyone fair notice: screw other broadcasters. Screw the listeners. Screw each other. Screw themselves.

We've GOT to have this crap....I mean innovation....NO MATTER WHAT. Even if it drives away the few listeners we have left!!

 

[stormy01]

"Naysayers!" "DXers!" Phooey on you two!! It's all YOUR FAULT for trying to listen to stations outside their PROTECTED CONTOURS! Don't you both know better by now?

(Of course IBOC stations also get to interfere INSIDE stations' protected contours, because....well.....ummm....they just do.)

You guys really have to read the memos. iBiquity and the HD-pushers have given everyone fair notice: screw other broadcasters. Screw the listeners. Screw each other. Screw themselves.

We've GOT to have this crap....I mean innovation....NO MATTER WHAT. Even if it drives away the few listeners we have left!!

Well, if these stations actually broadcast quality programming on a quality signal perhaps people would listen to their stations.

The I-B-O-Crapnology does NOT impress me - go back to the drawing boards!!!

Small wonder people are listening elsewhere: online to 128k and higher streams, MP3s, CDs, etc... I even enjoy listening to my 33's and 45's from time to time!

 

[KB1OKL]

"Naysayers!" "DXers!" Phooey on you two!! It's all YOUR FAULT for trying to listen to stations outside their PROTECTED CONTOURS! Don't you both know better by now?

(Of course IBOC stations also get to interfere INSIDE stations' protected contours, because....well.....ummm....they just do.)

You guys really have to read the memos. iBiquity and the HD-pushers have given everyone fair notice: screw other broadcasters. Screw the listeners. Screw each other. Screw themselves.

We've GOT to have this crap....I mean innovation....NO MATTER WHAT. Even if it drives away the few listeners we have left!!

Yup there was a cheerleader from Boston who thought he was a ladies man evidently and that was his trump card: DXers and hobbyists have no right to complain. This was in the thread entitled WZLX, when are they going to stop running the sophomoric HD ads for no one? The thread was moved to Take It Outside where it continued for a couple of days and it's really outside now, it's gone, Only the original 6 pages is left in the Boston section and there is no hint left that it ever went to TIO.
IBOC ruins a lot of reception here in MA but of course I'm a DXer so i have no right to complain.
I guess my father was a DXer too when he used to listen to WBZ in NC when he was in the service right after WWII. It's kind of ironic that the station that my father listened too in NC is ruining reception all up and down the entire eastern seaboard for adjacent channels, also inland for quite a ways I'm sure. The legacy of WBZ's iBlock is that it hardly comes in here 40 miles West, my father asked me what happened to the station a while ago, he used to listen to it while falling asleep, now it fades too much. Since implementing IBOC the audio is terrible and the power seems to have been cut down.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

"Naysayers!" "DXers!" Phooey on you two!! It's all YOUR FAULT for trying to listen to stations outside their PROTECTED CONTOURS! Don't you both know better by now?

Interesting! Without implying you are anything but being facetious ---- that was probably the party line of Joseph Goebbels about Germans DX'ing the BBC. I know Hitler hated WLW for running half a million watts of power, putting a listenable signal into Germany.

Of course if DX'ers are an obsolete breed, we shouldn't have bothered with Radio Free Europe. We shouldn't be bothering with Radio Marti. All we need to do is have Castro carry our point of view on HD-2 channels of Cuban FMs.

Of course, all the hurricane Katrina evacuees shouldn't have been DX'ing WWL for information. After all we know they all had expensive laptops and could get all the information they needed on line. Or HD radios, where local FMs in every city were gladly carrying WWL on an HD-2 channel for them.

 

[Savage]

It's fascinating - and revealing - how the HD "contingent" (can't really call it a "crowd" any more since there are only about fourteen left) uses the term "DXer" kind of like the rest of us use "child molester."

Excuse me, HD apologists: you're denigrating one of the unique features that gives AM a rare advantage in the competitive marketplace, and that is long-distance coverage. Seems to me everybody else in the world understands this.

Everyone without some convoluted and self-serving agenda, that is. Everyone who is interested in the truth.

Also so revealing how when you ask the HD'ers - what about the skywave interference to LOCAL signals? (without conceding anything about distant skywave service) their response is: attack the critic.

You know, like.....well, I don't want to reveal any names here. And I can't anyway because RWEE's "Guy Wire" won't REVEAL his real name.

 

[davideduardo]

I know Hitler hated WLW for running half a million watts of power, putting a listenable signal into Germany.

Germans, for the most part, spoke German then. And WLW did not put a regular usable signal into Germany any more than any of the German stations in the 300 kw and up range have ever done so for any part of the US.

We shouldn't be bothering with Radio Marti. All we need to do is have Castro carry our point of view on HD-2 channels of Cuban FMs.

Radio Martí is not a DX catch. It covers much of central northern Cuba via groundwave over a pure saltwater path and a 500 kw lobe aimed at Cuba. Using a saltwater path has been used in other cases, like the KAIM Honolulu site that was not even on Oahu... 50 kw aimed at Homolulu over the straits.

Of course, all the hurricane Katrina evacuees shouldn't have been DX'ing WWL for information. After all we know they all had expensive laptops and could get all the information they needed on line. Or HD radios, where local FMs in every city were gladly carrying WWL on an HD-2 channel for them.

So the purpose of a clear channel station is to be on the air for events that happen once in a half-century? It would be much better to make EAS and emergency info available and triggerable on cell phones, anyway. Even at the best hours, less than 20% of all people are listening to the radio... but nearly everyone has a cell phone or is with someone who does.

 

[radiotower40]

The station's I wrote about are not DX station's, except for AM 1670. They are station's that were easily receivable
in my car before HD interference. If I decided to put a pirate station on the air, on one of those frequencies, how
long do you think it would be until I got a knock on the door from the FCC? It would not be long because it is illegal,
as it should be, to interfere with a licensed station. Under FCC rules it is also illegal to interfere with neighboring
station's, yet, HD station's are allowed to do it day and night.

Savage, I read the HD threads a lot more than I post, and I assure you, your sarcasm wasn't lost on me .
Keep up the good fight!

 

[rbrucecarter5]

Germans, for the most part, spoke German then. And WLW did not put a regular usable signal into Germany any more than any of the German stations in the 300 kw and up range have ever done so for any part of the US.

There were a lot fewer stations on the air, and much less interference. Hitler himself was on record making the statement about WLW.

So the purpose of a clear channel station is to be on the air for events that happen once in a half-century? It would be much better to make EAS and emergency info available and triggerable on cell phones, anyway. Even at the best hours, less than 20% of all people are listening to the radio... but nearly everyone has a cell phone or is with someone who does.

The purpose of ALL radio is to serve the public interest. That occasionally includes special broadcasts to displaced listeners during an emergency situation. The moment radio forgets it is supposed to serve the public interest and pursues unrestrained profit is the moment it becomes irrelevant to the listeners. Who are abandoning corporate owned radio in droves in favor of a more personalized listening experience.

 

[BRNout]

Well, I know that I'm not supposed to be able to listen to WABC at night from northern IL, but it would be nice to have the ability as was possible before CBS Radio installed the IBOC blaster on WBBM which obliterates everything and anything on 770 and 790 and which even interferes with 760 and 800 (background hiss). Go far enough away from Chicago (like to Green Bay, WI or eastern IA) and WABC still comes in well at night.

Insane technology which blots out neighboring frequencies over a 150 to 200 mile range, yet which can only be decoded for 30 of those miles. Such a waste.

 

[davideduardo]

There were a lot fewer stations on the air, and much less interference. Hitler himself was on record making the statement about WLW.

Please give me a source or citation for this. I have quite a bit of information on WLW's superpower status as well as the clear channel association's activities all the way through the late 60's to establish up to 750 kw power caps, and have not seen a declaration by Hitler himself about WLW.

If you look at the premiere DX magazine of the era, Radex, there is no mention of constantly listenable European, let alone German, stations in the USA. The reverse applies.

The purpose of ALL radio is to serve the public interest. That occasionally includes special broadcasts to displaced listeners during an emergency situation. The moment radio forgets it is supposed to serve the public interest and pursues unrestrained profit is the moment it becomes irrelevant to the listeners. Who are abandoning corporate owned radio in droves in favor of a more personalized listening experience.

But stations are licensed to serve the local community... we used to go visiting mayors and police chiefs and the local charity leaders and so on to do ascertainment. We never did ascertainment 500 miles from the COL.

 

[JimmyJames]

Many, many things have interfered with AM and made it less suitable for distance listening than it used to be. As fun as DXing is, there's no inherent right or interest for some station in one market having listeners in another distant market. It may be a great bragging right, but it's of no bottom line value. I've worked at stations that had loyal listeners from out of market, but we didn't do sales there (too far, and the signal was not strong enough there to market.) It was great they appreciated the programming but it meant nothing to management to have 5 people with roof antennas who never came to our trade area to do business.

 

[radioskeptic]

Well, David, I can’t cite any reports of Hitler complaining about WLW, but I do know that reception was indeed possible.

One night, probably over 30 years ago, back in the days when 50-kw WCAU (now WPHT) used to sign off its 50-kw signal on 1210 from Midnight or 1 Sunday night until 6 Monday morning, I got a British station on 1206 at around 3 AM. So I know it’s possible.

Think I was using some Hallicrafters or Drake ham receiver with BC band capability connected to a longwire antenna? Guess again. It was my 1971 Tandberg TP-41 portable, with its internal loopstick.

The Tandberg still works, and its selectivity is as good as ever. How many radios can get WGR on 550 from Buffalo here in New Jersey with WFIL on 560 in nearby Philadelphia?

Its FM selectivity is extraordinary, too – no problem, because it’s mono, so you don’t have to worry about distrortion in the difference subcarrier. In fact, it’s the only radio I know that can reject a strong local station’s analog signal and bring in the same station’s iNiquity buzzsaw noise where I used to get a first-adjacent clearly!

 

[Savage]

For about the millionth time: HD-boosters have to lose the preposterous long-discredited "DXer" argument. DX listening isn't the issue with HD. It's the....GET THIS.....interference IBOC stations deliver to first-adjacent LOCAL stations. Like the way WBZ-HD, 350 miles distant, clobbers first adjacent WYSL with high-amplitude steady-state COFDM noise. They radiate almost 4100 mv directly aimed at our site, obliterating LOCAL coverage where our signal strength is more than TWICE our nighttime interference-free contour. HD delivered on top of local signals via skywave functions precisely like the old Soviet-bloc jammers.

The "DXer" argument is a complete lie. The FCC never issued any order or rule revision overturning the entire allocations table. They never said "stations are only entitled to service within their NIF." Actually stations are supposed to be GUARANTEED interference free service within that contour. The "only entitled to coverage within the NIF" was completely made up by corporate engineers desperate to push HD. The FCC never intended for stations' 2 mv or 5mv or 10mv service areas to be completely worthless.

For what it's worth, there are also still rules on the books about skywave service from dominant stations. If the FCC really believed, as HD zealots have somehow convinced themselves, that "skywave is totally worthless" these rules would have been rescinded. (And no, I don't care about the policies of Latin American countries regarding nighttime service on AM. We're talking about the USA here.)

The "DXer" argument is just a straw man cynically contrived by the HD-pushers to try to cloud the issue about IBOC's horrible adjacent-channel skywave problems. Nobody buys that stupid old argument any more. Not even "Guy Wire" and other rabid HD proponents. So give it up already.

 

[davideduardo]

One night, probably over 30 years ago, back in the days when 50-kw WCAU (now WPHT) used to sign off its 50-kw signal on 1210 from Midnight or 1 Sunday night until 6 Monday morning, I got a British station on 1206 at around 3 AM. So I know it’s possible.

Probably Daventry 1214, if I recall. One of the easier transatlantic catches. I logged, and verified most, about 100 Europeans ranging from 1133 Zagreb to a couple of the 1484 kHz Spanish 1 kw locals and the relatively easy Radio Luxembourg 1439, Radio Montecarlo 1466 and Portugal on 655 and 1035. But none of the catches, from about 1960 to 1963, were easy, and required an HQ180 or a Collins to pull in, using a loop antenna.

My only experience with trans atlantic reception on a consumer radio was the occasional discovery arond 3PM AST of the megawatt 1251 kHz station in Libya which would announce its presence by hetting 1250 something awful on the NE coast of Puerto Rico. Occasionally I would get audio, mostly Q'ran readings.

There are many reports in the 30's and 40's of 100 watt Australian stations being heard in the US Midwest, but on totally clear frequencies and at hours of the night when most of mankind is asleep or otherwise engaged. Some of these reports are fun reading today and can be found at http://www.davidgleason.com/Radex_Master_Page.htm

 

[KB1OKL]

I'm sitting next to an HQ-180, damn fine radio, I own two Collins R-390's and one R-388, also two R-390A's, a Motorola and a Capeheart believe it or not. I also own many fine Nationals and Hammarlund SP-600's 400's and 200's. I regularly get Saudi Arabia on 1521 here in the winter, these radios have the selectivity to separate it from WWKB with a phaser and LW antennas, it's just turning a giant loop electrically. Yes I am a DXer but also base my dislike of HD on the fact that it is ruining radio period especially AM radio. I used to like to listen to WSM occasionally, is it DX from TN to MA? I suppose so in a strict sense but not really in the sense that almost anyone can do it in a car, so you don't need a special receiver to pick it up, nor do you need any skill to get it, so to me it's not really DX. The problem now is that with WFAN on 660 whooshing up 635 to 675 and beyond it's very hard to phase out with a phaser and impossible in a car. So I think the average guy driving down the highway late at night looking for something to listen to on the AM radio probably really doesn't care whether he's listening to a 50 mile away station or a 1000 mile away station, so that's not really DX, this guy is not looking to see how far away he can find a station, he's looking for some entertainment and if he finds it 1000 miles away, he's happy. That is not DX and that is what many drivers do at night. So now he scans around looking for something, maybe his honky tonk favorite WSM and finds it all covered with hash. AM radio just went down another notch in his mind. HD Radio the mode than kills customers one a time! Great new Ad for the morally corrupt HD contigent.
Nope we need this useless krap gone from the AM bands now!

 

[dumber than a box of hair]

Please give me a source or citation for this. I have quite a bit of information on WLW's superpower status as well as the clear channel association's activities all the way through the late 60's to establish up to 750 kw power caps, and have not seen a declaration by Hitler himself about WLW.

Google is your friend. Google "Hitler WLW" and you'll get at least half a dozen references to Hitler calling Powell Crosley "the Cincinnati liar," although it wasn't just WLW that irked him. During WWII the VOA originated some of its broadcasts from the WLW site, and since those were pure American propaganda I'm sure that bugged Hitler even more than WLW's regular programming did.

 

[JohnW]

Let's put this in perspective...I can sit on my sofa and scan all the cable channels on my TV to find something that I want to watch.

I can go up and down the FM dial to find something that I want to listen to.

Then why is it that I am considered by some to be a dysfunctional basement-dwelling misfit DXer if I scan the AM band and find something that I want to listen to that is NOT LOCAL?

And BTW, a local favorite is interfered with - WYSL by WBZ IBOC.

 

[sportsradioweei1037]

well here in ma i cant get wfan during the day because of 650 a local station here because of iboc, but wcbs am comes in fine especially on rainy days.