Stations That Abandoned Virtual Channels

[OhioMediaWatch]

There aren't that many of 'em, but some stations have abandoned their old analog/virtual channel number, and gone for their new RF channel number in the digital age.

Canton, OH (Cleveland market): WOAC/67, which used virtual channel 67 in digital land running infomercials, has become WRLM/47 under religious network TCT's ownership.

Lima, OH: WLIO/35 (NBC) took its RF channel 8 number for PSIP, though they brand now as "NBC Lima". The other three network affiliates are now co-owned, with Fox on WLIO/8.2, ABC on WOHL-CD/35.1 and CBS on WOHL-CD/35.2.

 

[dave73]

I would like to see stations use their RF channel number over their virtual analog channel number. WYIN Gary, IN normally doesn't use a channel number in their branding, but during station ID's, it lists WYIN DT 17 Gary/Merrillville. Their former analog channel is 56m which they use for the PSIP. Other than that and station identification, they only refer to themselves as Lakeshore Public Television. They'd rather ID with 17 than 56, because they want people to know they're on 17. Not only that, most cable systems have WYIN on 17 (those not on 17 have them on 21).

Prior to WLS-TV changing RF 7 to a translator, they were the only station in Chicago that could legally use 7 for the virtual number, since they returned to RF 7 on June 12th, 2009, since RF 52 was out of core. Had 52 not been out of core, I'm not sure they would have returned to RF 7. I don't see WLS-TV giving up use 7 in their channel, since they've been channel 7 since 1953 as WENR.

 

[Ultimajock]

Prior to WLS-TV changing RF 7 to a translator, they were the only station in Chicago that could legally use 7 for the virtual number, since they returned to RF 7 on June 12th, 2009, since RF 52 was out of core. Had 52 not been out of core, I'm not sure they would have returned to RF 7. I don't see WLS-TV giving up use 7 in their channel, since they've been channel 7 since 1953 as WENR.

...WENR-TV signed on with Channel 7 on 17 September 1948. It was in 1953 that they switched call signs to WBKB, adopting the name and State Street studio location that had been abandoned by the current-day WBBM-TV when they moved from Channel 4 to Channel 2 and acquired a new location on McClurg Court. Prior to that, WENR-TV had shared facilities with WMAQ-TV/5 in the Merchandise Mart...

 

[w9wi]

I would like to see stations use their RF channel number over their virtual analog channel number. WYIN Gary, IN normally doesn't use a channel number in their branding, but during station ID's, it lists WYIN DT 17 Gary/Merrillville. Their former analog channel is 56m which they use for the PSIP. Other than that and station identification, they only refer to themselves as Lakeshore Public Television. They'd rather ID with 17 than 56, because they want people to know they're on 17. Not only that, most cable systems have WYIN on 17 (those not on 17 have them on 21).

The ATSC standard, which is incorporated by reference into the FCC regulations, requires WYIN to use virtual channel 56. However, there is no regulation as to what they call themselves on the audio/video streams. (although it certainly would seem to be confusing to call yourself channel 17 but require viewers to punch up 56 to watch your station! Unless WYIN is on channel 17 on cable?)

Let's assume there was no channel remapping, and you wanted to watch "60 Minutes" on WBBM-TV over an antenna. You would punch up:

- pre-transition, analog: 02
- During transition, analog: 02 digital: 03
- After transition, digital: 12, unless you use an indoor antenna in the city proper in which case 26 might work better. But don't use either 3, 12, or 26 if you have cable -- you'll get something else.

(Oh, and you have to remember that 26 isn't WCIU anymore, and if you're up around Zion, 12 is now CBS and not ABC. ABC is now only on 7 -- or maybe 44? and/or 34? )

It could get even more confusing. In LA, if you wanted to watch something on channel 9, during transition it would be channel 43, but after transition it was channel 9 again -- and if you forgot and punched in 43, you'd get channel 2 instead. If you wanted to watch channel 2, it was channel 2, then 60, and then 43 which your TV might tell you was actually 9.

Isn't it a lot easier if WBBM is channel 2 regardless of when you want to watch and regardless of which transmitter delivers the best signal?

_________________________________________________

The other thing to consider is the need to keep virtual channels unique. What happens if stations are allowed to choose to use their RF channel as their virtual channel? Well, imagine if WLS decided to use their RF channel 44 as their virtual channel. Telemundo's WSNS was RF 44 in analog -- and is entitled to use virtual 44. Poof: you have *two* channel 44s. How TVs will handle that will vary, but I think in most cases when you punched in 44 on the remote, you'd get WLS (being on a lower RF channel); if you wanted Telemundo, you'd always have to start on WLS & then hit channel-up.

Prior to WLS-TV changing RF 7 to a translator, they were the only station in Chicago that could legally use 7 for the virtual number, since they returned to RF 7 on June 12th, 2009, since RF 52 was out of core. Had 52 not been out of core, I'm not sure they would have returned to RF 7. I don't see WLS-TV giving up use 7 in their channel, since they've been channel 7 since 1953 as WENR.

None of that would have mattered...

For stations that had an analog signal (nearly all of them), their analog channel is the ONLY thing that determines what their post-transition digital channel should be. WLS-TV would have been virtual channel 7 regardless of whether they were on RF 7, RF 44, RF 4, or anywhere else.

_________________________________________________

Bottom line is, current FCC regulations require stations adhere to the standard, in order to ensure unique virtual channels. Violations are by no means unheardof. (we have one here in the Nashville market) As long as nobody complains, the FCC probably won't bother sanctioning anybody. (and as long as there are no duplicate virtual channels, chances are the FCC won't find out)

 

[tripinva]

There aren't that many of 'em, but some stations have abandoned their old analog/virtual channel number, and gone for their new RF channel number in the digital age.

Canton, OH (Cleveland market): WOAC/67, which used virtual channel 67 in digital land running infomercials, has become WRLM/47 under religious network TCT's ownership.

Lima, OH: WLIO/35 (NBC) took its RF channel 8 number for PSIP, though they brand now as "NBC Lima". The other three network affiliates are now co-owned, with Fox on WLIO/8.2, ABC on WOHL-CD/35.1 and CBS on WOHL-CD/35.2.

First of all, I'll save myself the trouble of making the virtual channel argument, as I've already done that on RabbitEars: http://www.rabbitears.info/blog/index.php?post/2010/04/07/Opinion:-Virtual-Channel-Numbers

TCT followed the WOAC lead in Greensboro where WLXI (roman numerals for 61) is now 43-x.

Other examples that come to mind are the Sainte stations, KBVU-28 (analog 29), KCVU-20 (analog 30), and KVIQ-17 (analog 6). KAIL was analog 53, maps to its digital 7-1. KCEN dropped 6-1 in favor of 9-1, but then returned to 6-1 a year later.

Others: WMCN-44, WNVT-30 (WNVC-24, formerly analog 56, also maps to 30-x now), WRNN-48, KWDK-42.

WACX (analog 55) was mapping to 40-1 until WWSB-24 (40-1) complained. The FCC ordered WACX back to 55-1.

- Trip

 

[fybush]

First of all, I'll save myself the trouble of making the virtual channel argument, as I've already done that on RabbitEars: http://www.rabbitears.info/blog/index.php?post/2010/04/07/Opinion:-Virtual-Channel-Numbers

Not to mention in how many dozens of R-I threads over the years?

WACX (analog 55) was mapping to 40-1 until WWSB-24 (40-1) complained. The FCC ordered WACX back to 55-1.

- Trip

And that, as w9wi said, is pretty much the way it works now: the FCC's not out there actively enforcing stations' use of the correct (per ATSC standards) virtual channel numbers - but they'll step in if someone complains. For most stations that were out of core for analog, there's no conflict and thus no reason for anyone to complain, which is how WRLM and WLXI and WMCN and WRNN and KWDK all get away with it.

I would imagine that if KGO felt there was any possibility for conflict, it could force KAIL back to 53-x, but the potential for overlap between the SF and Fresno markets is so very small that there's no real issue.

Note that the new channel 5 Seaford, Delaware will be mandated to use virtual channel 36 at the behest of WTTG in Washington (RF 36/virtual 5), which was concerned about the potential for confusion from a new virtual 5 with overlapping coverage.

It will be interesting to see what the FCC does with the LPTV digital conversion. If digital LPTVs are not mandated to follow the ATSC major virtual channel standard, there will be the possibility of conflict in some markets.

 

[wncc]

If WLXI is going with 43 rather 61, shouldn't there calls be WXLIII?

 

[travisl5678]

In Eureka,California CBS 6 KVIQ became CBS 17, and Fox 29 became Fox 28

 

[tripinva]

I devised a list. http://www.rabbitears.info/oddsandends.php?request=drop_virtual

It's probably not complete, so if you spot any errors, let me know.

Of course, just because a station is on the list doesn't necessarily mean it's in violation of the rules, it just means it's not mapping to its former analog channel.

- Trip

 

[Markxxx]

I agree it's better to simply drop the virtual channel numbers. I have had enormous trouble in Chicago with channel 44. On my computer DTV tuners and on TV tuners.

For some odd reason the tuners have huge issues with WSNS on channel 45 mapping to 44. This is very problematic, as WLS is now on channels 44 and 7. You do the scan and it will be fine, then for no reason it'll switch. Suddenly WSNS is on channel 45 and WLS is on channel 44 and 7.

I will be watching WLS on my neighbors TV and it's fine. Then I turn it off and back on and suddenly the signal is all weak and broken. Sure enough it's the weaker LP channel 7 and not the RF WLS from 44 being mapped to channel 7.

The tuners are not made to cope. It would also put pressure on the FCC to adopt standards and stop this translator fill in nonsense. Obviously a TV station would fight tooth and nail to get a proper channel. The TV stations don't care now, as long as they can map to their virtual channel.

This means instead of going to the FCC and saying, "Look we need to fix this problem," they simply throw up an additional LP translator.

The channel branding is a weak argument, as consumers easily adapt to new channels. They do it on dish systems, cable systems, and the big affiliation switches in the 90s. It didn't keep anyone from finding their shows for more than a few minutes.

It's was the same old excuse for area codes, well people griped and in two minutes they adjusted. Branding is not a strong reason for TV networks.

 

[wncc]

I have been trying vainly to find out why WMBF doesn't map to its analog channel

 

[radiolives]

I have been trying vainly to find out why WMBF doesn't map to its analog channel

WMBF was a new NBC affilate in Myrtle Beach which launched sometime in Aug of 2008 with only digital. Their digital channel is 32. They never started a analog due to the soon switch to all digital. If I were WMBF I would map it to 10 as WMBF was placed on cable 10 which used to be home to WIS on many cable systems.

 

[rgseark2009]

WABG (RF 32) Greenwood-Greenville MS virtual channel 6-2 (FOX) brands itself as "Fox 10 Mississippi" because WABG got most of that area's cable channels+Dish Network to carry that channel on "Channel 10".

 

[Sammi Brie]

The channel branding is a weak argument, as consumers easily adapt to new channels. They do it on dish systems, cable systems, and the big affiliation switches in the 90s. It didn't keep anyone from finding their shows for more than a few minutes.

It's was the same old excuse for area codes, well people griped and in two minutes they adjusted. Branding is not a strong reason for TV networks.

Those affiliation switches were concerning.

Actually, that makes for a good historical example in another thread...

There were some COMPLICATED switches in that one. A channel number swap (WTVJ/WCIX-WFOR), the "independent affiliation" moving (Phoenix), the loss of two TV markets (Alabama), one where CBS was sent into proverbial outer space (WWJ Detroit)...

 

[wncc]

I have been trying vainly to find out why WMBF doesn't map to its analog channel

WMBF was a new NBC affilate in Myrtle Beach which launched sometime in Aug of 2008 with only digital. Their digital channel is 32. They never started a analog due to the soon switch to all digital. If I were WMBF I would map it to 10 as WMBF was placed on cable 10 which used to be home to WIS on many cable systems.

Totally joking when I asked the question ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

Wow, my thread has inspired a list on Trip's RabbitEars.

Trip, if you're including LD/CD stations (I forgot about WNEO's W44CR-D), should WLIO sister station WOHL-CD Lima be on the list?

They map to their RF channel 35 (WLIO's old analog number), and were analog 25 back in the analog days as "Fox Lima". I think they were "Fox 25" at one point. WLIO/Block bought them not long before all these digital changes.

The programming has changed...Block moved "Fox Lima" over to WLIO 8.2, and WOHL-CD actually carries ABC and CBS now. But I'm pretty sure the WOHL-CD license comes out of the old analog WOHL.

 

[tripinva]

Wow, my thread has inspired a list on Trip's RabbitEars.

Trip, if you're including LD/CD stations (I forgot about WNEO's W44CR-D), should WLIO sister station WOHL-CD Lima be on the list?

They map to their RF channel 35 (WLIO's old analog number), and were analog 25 back in the analog days as "Fox Lima". I think they were "Fox 25" at one point. WLIO/Block bought them not long before all these digital changes.

The programming has changed...Block moved "Fox Lima" over to WLIO 8.2, and WOHL-CD actually carries ABC and CBS now. But I'm pretty sure the WOHL-CD license comes out of the old analog WOHL.

I tried to only list LP stations that looked like they might be in violation of the rules. WYFX-LD, for instance, has no legitimate claim for mapping to 19-1. WOHL-CD, however, does have a legitimate claim to 35-1 since it's a virtual channel held by the same ownership group that owns WLIO, which should be mapping to 35-1. Oh, except for W44CR-D, which I listed just because I happened to know its analog channel off the top of my head.

Full-powered stations, though, I didn't make that distinction. Don't I have the most wonderful sense of consistency? ;D

- Trip

 

[crainbebo]

KTTW (TV17 analog), a Fox affiliate in Sioux Falls, SD, abandnoed it's virtual channel and branding, moving to DTV 7 and changing branding from Fox 17 to "Fox 7".

-crainbebo