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stations that abuse the natural break rule

B

bobdavcav

It is my understanding of the FCC rules on the legal ID is that the legal has to go at a natural break in programming as close to the top of the hour as possible. What stations do you think just use this rule as an excuse to put the legal anywhere in an hour? Here's a list to start off,
KQMV/Bellevue, WA consistantly gives the legal at 49.
KKLS/Sioux Falls, SD since I have never been to Sioux Falls, I can't say for sure, but I would guess that they put it during there commercial break at 45.
WDAY-FM/Fargo, ND and KORQ/Winters, TX do the same thing. KORQ is the only one that does not block out the local spots with other spots or add councel filler, so I actually have proof that they do it at 49, just like KQMV. I can't prove that WDAY-FM or KKLS even do the legal. The thing that gets me about all these stations except for KQMV is they all have special sounders they play at the top of the hour, why do they have to do the legal separately?
WQSM/Fayetteville, NC also does this. I know they do a legal though because they do it getting back from a commercial break, usually about 53.
KKOB-FM/Albuquerque, NM is one of the worst, last time I listened to them they got back to the music at the top of the hour or just before, but the legal didn't hit until 10 after.
When it was WLTE in its last 6 months or so, that station used to do the legal getting back to the music at 40 past the hour, sometimes it would be as late as 51.
KHKS/Denton, TX is also another one. Not only do they get back to the music with the legal at 56, but on Commercial Free Mondays the legal hits at like 42! That's way too early!
KFLY and KLOO both in Corvallis, OR are also ones that I'm going to flag. KLOO does the legal about 4 past the hour, and KFLY the earliest I've heard them do it is 5 past the hour, but they typically do it about 9 past the hour.
I'm also going to flag KWXS/Prineville, OR with a violation, although their's is minor compared to the ones I have listed above, and they may have fixed it, I haven't payed attention the last couple of times I've listened. The one time I payed attention to the time, they played a sounder at 4:00 where the legal should have been, then they played the legal at 4:04 right after that song.
I'm also going to flag KBKS/Tacoma, WA for a violation. When I was listening to the IHeart Radio Music Festival last year on that station, I think someone forgot to disable the automatic legal ID for the night. Either that or someone complained about it the year before. In any event, the automation would cut off the live feed with the legal, then come back in. The problem was that the ID consistantly hit at 3 or 4 past the hour.
 
If you are listening to streams, you are not necessarily hearing exactly the same thing as OTA.

It is OK to play the legal a few minutes before or after the top of the hour and use a sounder at the TOH.

Legal IDs really are over-rated.
 
What about stations that play dead air for days, weeks, or even months on end. They obviously don't play a legal ID, nor do they air any public affairs. Their whole programming is a "natural break".
 
Alan McCall said:
If you are listening to streams, you are not necessarily hearing exactly the same thing as OTA.

It is OK to play the legal a few minutes before or after the top of the hour and use a sounder at the TOH.
Click to expand...

If you read the rules literally, it's not OK.

From FCC regulation 73.1201:
(a) When regularly required. Broadcast station identification announcements shall be made:
(1) At the beginning and ending of each time of operation, and
(2) Hourly, as close to the hour as feasible, at a natural break in program offerings. Television and Class A television broadcast stations may make these announcements visually or aurally.
Click to expand...

If you're running a sounder at TOH, that's a "natural break in program offerings" and there needs to be an ID.

That said, as bobdavcav says, violations are VERY common & citations rare if not completely unheardof.

Legal IDs really are over-rated.
Click to expand...

Agreed. The legal ID is really no longer necessary. At the very least, the Commission should allow the ID to be done by automatic means -- by placing the correct call letters in the RDS PS (for FM stations) or HD Radio PAD (both AM & FM) or the VCT (for digital TV) or XDS. (for the few remaining analog LPTVs)
 
Ever since WBBM-AM started simulcasting on WCFS a few years ago, they now do their TOH ID around 10 minutes to the hour.

All Hubbard stations in Chicago seem to do 2 station ID's at various times of the day. They'll mention the analog station's TOH ID toward the top of the hour (+/- 5 minutes), while the analog station's ID with the HD-1 ID included are usually done at the half hour to 20 minutes to the hour.

While this may or may not violate the TOH ID rules, but ever since Jones Radio Network got acquired by Dial Global, WZVN is now back with Dial Global, & when it senses :00, regardless of whether a song is playing or not, it gets cut out completely to air the station ID, then goes back to playing music (a different song, & not the one that got interrupted), or has a news brief (depending on time of day). When they were with Jones Radio Network, the station ID didn't come up until the song was over.

For TV, how about when WTTW is airing programming that lasts more than an hour, & they don't ID at the top of the hour at all. Since most PBS stations air their programming without cutting out for underwriting in between program segments (beg-a-thons don't count for this one), WTTW might not ID at all on 11.1 or 11.2 (11.2 is WTTW Prime, a locally programmed PBS subchannel without children's programming). This is especially true if they're showing a movie. The way WTTW gets around the ID rules for 11.3 (Create) & 11.4 (V-Me), is to embed the station ID on the screen 24/7 (those 2 are running off the bird). At least where WYCC might either be running off the bird, they'll have the station ID up the entire time (usually during children's programming), or if they're airing a movie, they'll have the station ID pop up somewhere on the screen at the top of the hour.
 
My understanding is a natural break in programming is an event change. An event change is going from one song to the next or placing a liner between songs. Perhaps the wording should say the event closest to the top of the hour.

Early on a classical station aired a complete opera without interruption and was nabbed. They argued they did not interrupt a 'work' to insert an ID. The FCC argued that operas were assembled in Acts and the end of an act is a natural break in programming.

A station running ambient music where some pieces run 70 or 80 minutes or more without a break in music is fine. Likewise, classical pieces normally not aired because of length, say 90 minutes to 2 hours or more may be okay...a coin toss, let's say, since to add a legal ID within the work at the end of a movement would not be a natural break but the FCC might think so. A friend ran an ambient-styled music overnight show and played a piece that ran 3 hours. He felt he needed to insert a legal ID which was whispered and barely audible. An official ruling would be nice for such rare instances. I suppose the safest is the music piece that is uninterrupted (as that 3 hour piece was), meaning it is all one solitary track.

At one station I worked, we have a 5 minute newscast at 7:45 and a 15 minute devotional at 7:50. The owner was insistant on going with a legal ID at both 7:50 and 8:05.

Generally speaking these stations could be nabbed in my opinion. Even more so are the number oof stations that run no Legal ID whatsoever. At another station I worked my program director insisted on inserting "FM Stereo" between the call letters and city of license. A station I knew of in San Antonio said "San Antonio spells class KLLS" for a legal ID.

I think the FCC is much more lax than it once was but if you rile up the FCC Field Inspector, you might be fined. At one station I worked, a stand alone FM, they inserted FM between the call letters and city of license. When they got nabbed for another violation, the FCC Field Inspector wrote up everything he could with the legal ID violation as well.

There are some creative IDs out there. One I heard was "KHAS, Hastings Link dot com". Perfectly legal as Hastings is the city of license.
 
I wonder if anyone has a KISW ID from the 80s? Apparently the ID at the time was the call letters and then the slogan, which at that time was perfectly legal, since the slogan was Seattle's best rock. Oops, just caught KXJM/Banks, OR doing a legal ID 8 minutes early.
 
I wonder if this has anything to do with the new-ish thoughts on maximizing listening in the Portable People Meter (PPM) era.

Conventional (consultant) wisdom goes that your clock should look like an hour-glass OR an hour-glass laying on its side: the breaks should cluster around :00 and :30 OR :15 and :45.

So, if you're running up to 12 minutes of commercials per hour, in two six-minute commercial breaks, and you're using the hour glass on its side, your breaks are :12-:18 and :42 to :48.

If stations are interpreting (correctly or incorrectly) natural break as "commercial break," that may be why you're hearing more legal IDs at aproximately :48 or :49 past the hour.
 
That's very true about how a station determines a natural break in programming but it's the FCC's interpretation that really counts.

Then again, the FCC seems to be taking a hands off approach on many things unless they're forced to take action via a formal complaint. In reality, I prefer the FCC act this way. The rules are so vague in places, it is best to allow the station to determine the interpretation. I blame this mainly on the FCC's budget...they have so much to do, so few dollars and so little time as budgets have affected staff.

To have the Houston Field Rep out in San Antonio and points east of Austin seems like a huge territory to keep up with. With all the FCC deals with that has to be an overwhelming workload.
 
All the issues radio has today, and a station playing a legal ID at :49 is one that even merits discussion? What about my station? We play it at :59:50 and :30:00 during syndicated shows. Is twice an hour acceptable?

If it's played anywhere, that's good enough. Some rules are just archaic.
 
Point well taken.

Why would this not be a topic for discussion? Seems legit to me.

Anytime is not good enough when FCC Rules require otherwise. FCC Rules only say at the top of the hour at a natural break.

As an FCC Field Rep and I were talking after he stopped by to see if our EAS was functioning properly, I asked his best advice for staying compliant with the rules. He told me that in his experiences the stations that paid attention to the little things tended to stay on top of the biggest things. His thinking was a station with a major problem that tended to stay on top of the little things usually deserved a little leeway and help rather than a fine. That made sense to me. An uncle was a cop before he retired and he said the driver that let their tags expire or inspection sticker expire was much more likely to have other issues (aka unpaid tickets, missed a court date, etc.).

Agreed the rule is archaic. I don't see the need to do legal IDs these days. As I understand it, the legal ID concept came about with World War II, a way to allow listeners to know they were hearing a domestic station. It originally was top and bottom of the hour. Personally I think the legal ID is no longer needed. Few people know the call letters these days and the FCC knows you more by your facility ID number than the call letters. So, I agree the legal ID issue is way, way down the list for radio these days.

Radio has operated in such a haphazard way for decades, it is no wonder it struggles to maintain. Thinking of my sales training ('Here's a list of businesses. Go see all of them this week.') and my 'on air' training which was about as intense and the other issues pertaining to its operation, mainly in smaller communities, would make any business owner outside radio cringe. It is as if radio made it by mere chance versus plan. I'm still very pro radio and don't see it going away...maybe the radio will fall by the wayside but the phone and internet will replace it as it is does so frequently in the workplace. A friend works in a cubical at an office and everybody is tuned in on their phone or computer and usually listening to local stations 'to stay connected'. But this is for another topic.
 
Producer Guy, your station sounds fine, I'm not sure why you need the legal at 30 during syndicated shows though, that's the only thing I would change, and it will probably not get you a fine by the FCC even if I were running it.
 
Well update on this issue, I think I may drop my case against KBKS and KWXS at least for now while I do some more investigating. I will add one to the list though, WXXL/Taveres, FL does the legal at 47.
 
ProducerGuy said:
All the issues radio has today, and a station playing a legal ID at :49 is one that even merits discussion?
Click to expand...

Agree. And I agree that, for the most part, IDs are arcane, anticipated and obsolete.

A lot of music stations consider the "natural break" to be after the last commercial set and before the first song because, just like a classical piece, a music sweep is not supposed to be interrupted.

And we also tend to forget that the various automation and live assist systems don't handle the top of the hour very well.

We can force the ID by having an "update" at around :00 that causes the system to play the ID as the next event. But if you do that, then it is very possible that one or more of the songs programmed ahead of :00 will be dropped, making the carefully programmed sweep into a train wreck.

Or, we can fixed position the ID between song x and song y of the sweep, knowing that the ID might happen 5 or 6 minutes earlier than :00 or 5 or 6 minutes after, depending on song length, the end time of the last stopset, etc.

So, actually, putting the ID at the end of the last stop in the hour is a very good idea because it is the most consistent and does not harm programming for the sake of an item that, except for DX chasers, nobody cares about any more.
 
I really think this 'rule' doesn't merit any enforcement, as long as stations are indeed running an ID.

As far as my stations go??? Well, I simply make my TOH sweeper my Legal ID... So, technically, I do play my LID at the closest natural break to the TOH.

I don't understand what the big deal is. All it adds to the sweeper is Calls and COL. No need to hide it or not do it.
 
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