Stations with balanced lineups

[DaveBayArea]

I'm curious if there are examples out there of stations that carry a "balanced" or less bombastic talk lineup, including hosts of left, right and perhaps moderate or other political views. I'd like to hear what such a talk format would sound like. Also are there any good local hosts that are of a more moderate or liberal bent that are entertaining and worth streaming?

You might try KGO AM in San Francisco. It's live & local, so many of the topics are about the Bay Area and may not be of interest to other parts of the country. But my liberal friends call it "KGOP" and my conservative friends call it "KGB". What you really find is logical opinions from both sides.

BTW - in response to the majority of this thread - KGO does very well in the ratings in market #5. The hosts are entertaining. That's what counts.

Dave B.

 

[cm454]

The talk stations are all very profitable. If you can't sell Limbaugh you need to be fired.

Actually, on many stations Limbaugh is a loss leader. Since he is the boiler plate for so many stations, they are willing to pay through the nose for him, but then have to depend on other dayparts to make their profit.

 

[The Ultimate Warrior]

The talk stations are all very profitable. If you can't sell Limbaugh you need to be fired.

Actually, on many stations Limbaugh is a loss leader. Since he is the boiler plate for so many stations, they are willing to pay through the nose for him, but then have to depend on other dayparts to make their profit.

That is not true. Limbaugh more than pays for himself in his timeslot alone, like I said if you can't swing that you are doing something wrong.

 

[MikefromDelaware]

Block programming does work on non-comm college and NPR stations. As the listener is the main financial resource, the listeners support with their Do-Re-Mi the shows they like. U of Del's WVUD(91.3) airs everything from scratchy 78 rpms', to blue grass, to Indian Music, to Rap, plus some other stuff too. As you said a commercial station could never survive doing this sort of block programming, which is where the non-comms come in as a place where you can hear music you might not get to hear anywhere on a commercial frequency.

 

[cm454]

That is not true. Limbaugh more than pays for himself in his timeslot alone, like I said if you can't swing that you are doing something wrong.

You flat-out do not know what you're talking about. In many markets, particularly large markets, Limbaugh's fee is so high that even if you maximize sales for his daypart, you are lucky to break even.

Loss leader: Familiarize yourself with the concept, because that is often the reality of the situation with Limbaugh when it comes to local stations. The ratio of fees they pay vs. revenue they have any hope of generating directly from his daypart will surprise you.

 

[Ultimajock]

...one station not yet mentioned: http://tucsonsjolt.com/ KJLL/1330 Tucson. Progressives Stephanie Miller, Ed Schultz, Thom Hartman and Alan Colmes, moderates Don Imus, John C. Scott and Doug Stephan, and conservatives Lou Dobbs and Laura Schlessinger...

 

[livingfruitvirus]

WTKG in Grand Rapids has a pretty balanced lineup. It goes from Dr. Dean Edell at 5 AM into what looks to be religious based morning programs, into Glenn Beck, into Thom Hartmann, into Dave Ramsey, into Ed Schultz, into Todd Schnitt, into Alan Colmes. Overnights it's Phil Hendrie and then John and Jeff.

 

[DocWashburn]

WTKG in Grand Rapids has a pretty balanced lineup. It goes from Dr. Dean Edell at 5 AM into what looks to be religious based morning programs, into Glenn Beck, into Thom Hartmann, into Dave Ramsey, into Ed Schultz, into Todd Schnitt, into Alan Colmes. Overnights it's Phil Hendrie and then John and Jeff.

Intriguing. I checked the ratings in that market. The station you refer to has a 1.0 share. Their competition has a 7.7. Wow! 'Nuff said.

 

[drt]

WTKG in Grand Rapids has a pretty balanced lineup. It goes from Dr. Dean Edell at 5 AM into what looks to be religious based morning programs, into Glenn Beck, into Thom Hartmann, into Dave Ramsey, into Ed Schultz, into Todd Schnitt, into Alan Colmes. Overnights it's Phil Hendrie and then John and Jeff.

Intriguing. I checked the ratings in that market. The station you refer to has a 1.0 share. Their competition has a 7.7. Wow! 'Nuff said.

I did some additional research and found the following...........

both WTKG and the other talk station in Grand Rapids are both owned by ClearChannel, WTKG is on one of the graveyard channels (1230 AM) and the competition is 20,000 watts; that alone gives WTKG's sister station an advantage and of course, ClearChannel, being in business to make money is going to put the best of the talkers on their 20,000 watt station vs. their 1,000 watt station.

ClearChannel's graveyard talker in Columbus, Ohio (also 1230 AM) has failed at both liberal and conservative talk to their much higher powered talker, WTVN, 610AM.

drt

 

[DocWashburn]

Block programming does work on non-comm college and NPR stations. As the listener is the main financial resource, the listeners support with their Do-Re-Mi the shows they like. U of Del's WVUD(91.3) airs everything from scratchy 78 rpms', to blue grass, to Indian Music, to Rap, plus some other stuff too. As you said a commercial station could never survive doing this sort of block programming, which is where the non-comms come in as a place where you can hear music you might not get to hear anywhere on a commercial frequency.

Actually, don't be surprised if the government aka (all of us involuntarily) is "the main financial resource". Whenever that is the case, the station does not have to be profitable...or even listenable (much less accountable).

 

[Leebo65]

The talk stations are all very profitable. If you can't sell Limbaugh you need to be fired.

Actually, on many stations Limbaugh is a loss leader. Since he is the boiler plate for so many stations, they are willing to pay through the nose for him, but then have to depend on other dayparts to make their profit.

Why doesn't Premiere charge a more reasonable fee. Do they have to squeeze every last drop off blood..? What kind of business relationship is that. WOW.. Maybe Michael Moore has a point.

 

[DocWashburn]

The talk stations are all very profitable. If you can't sell Limbaugh you need to be fired.

Actually, on many stations Limbaugh is a loss leader. Since he is the boiler plate for so many stations, they are willing to pay through the nose for him, but then have to depend on other dayparts to make their profit.

Why doesn't Premiere charge a more reasonable fee. Do they have to squeeze every last drop off blood..? What kind of business relationship is that. WOW.. Maybe Michael Moore has a point.

Far be it from me to be argumentative (or to cast aspersions)...but had the poster considered the possibility (the outside chance) that the esteemed Mr. Moore may have...an agenda?

 

[listener-in]

Far be it from me to be argumentative (or to cast aspersions)...but had the poster considered the possibility (the outside chance) that the esteemed Mr. Moore may have...an agenda?

If there's one "argument" doesn't cut it, it's that someone's point of view is somehow suspect because he has "an agenda". We all have our own agendas. What you mean is that he has an agenda that's different from yours.

 

[Leebo65]

One way to make the likes of a Michael Moore irrelevant is for people to make ethics part of the equation of doing business. If Premiere is charging so much that they know affiliates are losing money during Rush's airtime then I consider that unethical. If you have been doing business with a loyal affiliate for years and your attitude is "well if you don't pay it, someone else will" then you suck.

 

[DocWashburn]

One way to make the likes of a Michael Moore irrelevant is for people to make ethics part of the equation of doing business. If Premiere is charging so much that they know affiliates are losing money during Rush's airtime then I consider that unethical. If you have been doing business with a loyal affiliate for years and your attitude is "well if you don't pay it, someone else will" then you suck.

Rush isn't God. He isn't sovereign. He can't force stations to carry his show. If they charge too much, and it no longer makes sense for affiliates to carry him, they will drop him. If no one else wants to pay, then he loses affiliates. Its supply & demand. It would not make sense for Premiere to price him out of reach.

 

[MikefromDelaware]

My guess is, Clear Channel news/talkers, I believe all carry Rush/Hannity in their respective markets along with Fox Radio News. My guess is the local spot sales isn't where they are making their money (especially in blue states or markets), but as being able to charge top dollar for the national spots as Limbaugh is on, approx 650 radio stations coast to coast. He's on more stations than anyone else, bar none, so to buy national time on Rush's show is to get your message to the largest radio audience in the nation. Granted, they skew older than the desired demo, but I've never noticed a shortage of national spots for Rush. Granted the local station (WILM) runs many PSA's during the local avails as the Wilmington market is a conservative one even though Wilmington is in a blue county. Apparently the local Wilmington businesses are not comfortable having their company associated with Rush. But CC, who owns WILM, probably doesn't care about that, having both their Wilmington and Dover (WDOV) stations carrying Rush helps bring in the big bucks via the national spots as CC owns Premiere Radio.

Interestingly, both WDOV Dover (Kent County) and WMGD in Rehoboth Beach (Sussex County) are both Red Counties and both seem to do better with local avails than Blue County (New Castle) - Wilmington's WILM. You know what they say, location, location, location.

 

[The Ultimate Warrior]

My guess is, Clear Channel news/talkers, I believe all carry Rush/Hannity in their respective markets along with Fox Radio News.

Wrong.

Apparently the local Wilmington businesses are not comfortable having their company associated with Rush. But CC, who owns WILM, probably doesn't care about that, having both their Wilmington and Dover (WDOV) stations carrying Rush helps bring in the big bucks via the national spots as CC owns Premiere Radio.

Conjecture.

Interestingly, both WDOV Dover (Kent County) and WMGD in Rehoboth Beach (Sussex County) are both Red Counties and both seem to do better with local avails than Blue County (New Castle) - Wilmington's WILM. You know what they say, location, location, location.

Wrong again you are targeting 10% of the audience, not 50%. Red/blue is irrelevant, as is your opinion.

 

[MikefromDelaware]

I did say "my guess", so none of what I wrote was presented as fact, but indeed was conjecture. However, I've talked with some radio people in Wilmington, who do know the business end of Wilmington radio, and they said exactly what I said about the Wilmington area businesses not being confortable having their ads on Rush's show. If CC figures on making big money with the local avails on their Wilmington station during Rush, they're in for a big surprise as most local spot breaks air PSA's, and that's a fact as I do listen to the station. I've also listened to the Lower Delaware Rush affiliate in Rehoboth Beach (not owned by CC) that airs Rush and they have plenty of local spots during Limbaugh's show. Spin it any way you want, but one station is making money selling local spots during Rush and the other isn't (unless part of the Obama Stimulus Plan is to pay radio stations for airing PSA's). That is NOT conjecture. The one making money is in a RED county and the one airing PSA's is in a BLUE county. The Rush station in the Red County is one of the top rated stations in their market (12+) and the Rush station in the Blue County is around #10 in their market (12+). Now maybe where you live it doesn't matter red vs blue county for local advertisers buying time on Rush, but here there may be some connection.

It would be interesting to see how well stations across the nation do in selling local avails during Rush's show. Granted some do quite well, but my guess is (note the magic words MY GUESS IS) there are other Rush stations that are not doing as well selling local time during his show). Part of it could be the economy and some could be businesses not wanting their company name associated with Limbaugh's.

There probably are businesses that won't advertise on MSNBC or Bill Press' show, because they don't want their company's name associated with the biased liberal slant aired on MSNBC or the liberal slant of Mr. Press. So this isn't some new thing and poor Rush is being singled out. Companies are very sensitive about how their name is used and where it is used. So yes, Rush and yes FOX News too will be overlooked by some companies and some companies will over look MSNBC and Bill Press. That is their right and their choice.

 

[The Ultimate Warrior]

2 does not a comprehensive study make.

Rush is making money for stations all over this country, red and blue states alike.

If they can't sell the product, that is a sales department problem. Businesses like money and audiences for their advertising, Rush provides that everywhere he is.

 

[MikefromDelaware]

2 does not a comprehensive study make.

Rush is making money for stations all over this country, red and blue states alike.

If they can't sell the product, that is a sales department problem. Businesses like money and audiences for their advertising, Rush provides that everywhere he is.

I never said this was a comprehensive study, those are your words. However, it does show what we here in the first state call "The Delaware Way". People in "lower slower Delaware", the bottom two counties have a different approach to things, including politics, very Red Counties. If you saw the You Tube video about a town hall meeting Delaware's lone Congressman, Mike Castle, had about 5-6 weeks ago in, I believe it was Bridgeville Delaware, you saw some real wacked out ULTRA right wing Republicans who looked and sounded just as crazy as the videos that Fox News played of Reverend Wright's congregation back during the election. These folks appear to not be very educated. These folks make up a large part of the Republican party in Lower Delaware, where most of Delaware's Republicans live. Those folks make up a large part of Rush's listeners downstate where that station sells Rush's local avails very well. Compare that to a very different audience from the highly educated (many PhD's in Chemistry, Engineering, Medical Science, Electronics, etc), who tend to be far more moderate leaning left, more often than not, Democrat. These folks are not the main body of Rush's listeners generally speaking. My point is, even though Delaware is very small (approx 100 miles in length) the lower two counties are like a seperate state when compared to the Wilmington metro area. Those folks from downstate see the world very differently as they live in a more rural environment, etc from those of us from the more urban/metropolitan lifestyle of Wilmington.

That doesn't mean Rush's show won't make money for all blue county stations, but it could be a factor in those that are not doing as well. Sales people legally aren't allowed to hold a gun to the customers head to get them to buy local avails on Rush's show, so if a business or a group of businesses are NOT comfortable having their name associated with Rush or his show, then even the famous salesman of the 50's-60's for Parade Magazine who won all sorts of awards for being such a great salesperson, Red Motley, would not be able to sell that air time.

Remember the big uproar when Florida Orange Juice bought network spots on Limbaugh's show? They actually lost business, as I recall. People nationwide got upset and complained to Florida Orangejuice threatening boycotts, etc. The OJ folks dropped their ads from Rush's show in very short order. There was the big uproar when Rush himself did a Pizza Hut TV commerical for the cheese stuffed crust pizza. The ad got pulled very quickly. So there is some precident for what I'm saying. Liberals don't like Rush and apparently will complain to the companies demanding they not sponsor Rush's show or use him as their spokesperson. My guess is, (again note the magic words) that you'll never hear Levi Strauss Jeans or Ben and Jerry's Ice Cream advertising on Rush's show as those are very liberal companies, yet it wouldn't surprise me to see their spots on MSNBC's Keith Oberman's show (they may be on MSNBC, but I don't watch Oberman's show so I wouldn't know for sure). Businesses spend big time money NOT to upset people, but to get people to like their company and create a desire to buy whatever their company is selling. They're only going to buy time either as a network spot or a local spot on Limbaugh's show if they believe it will be good for their business, or if their company is a conservative oriented company and they are trying to say, hey we're one of you, buy our stuff. Of course such a company probably would not buy time on Keith Oberman's show for the same reasons. So it's not a slam against Limbaugh anymore than it's a slam against Oberman.