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Stereo Oldies

J

JH_Radio

I love stereo oldies. I'm not talking the electric stereo versions. I'm talkking the aulturnit, true, or wide stereo mixes. Where do people get the things like
Roaling Stones Last Time or Satisfaction in True Stereo?
How about Beach Boys Good vibrations or God Only Knows?
Fleedwoods "Why and Come S Softly to me
(Come Softly is a wide stereo)
4 Seasons Rag Doll
There are a lot more that I can't think of off the top of my head, but I love this stereo stuff.
Its hard to find on CD> Not even sure if vinyl had real stereo, or that fake stereo sound.
I hate the fake stereo sound the kind where they just use a different EQ or echo to make people think its stereo, I like the actual 2-track, 3-track, etc recordings.
Beatles "Please Please me, and 62-66 do not have stereo on CD.
For example the first I think its five tracks on the CD version of 62-66 are mono. Yet they can be found if listend to on a stereo LP.
Please Please me does not exist in stereo at all on CD.

Sounds like finding good stereo copies of stuff like this can be tricky and hard to do.
How about King Harvus Dancing 'N The Moonlite stereo?
Or motown stereo?
Any thoughts ideas or comments to what I've posed?
John
<P ID="signature">______________
John
E-mail: [email protected]
AIM: RainAngelsRule
MSN: [email protected]</P>
 
I try to get the true Stereo versions of the original songs from the 1950's and 1960's on my station (WXRB-FM). The true-stereo version "Satisfaction" by the Stones is somewhat rare now. It was available during the mid to late 1980's when CD's were "the new thing". But now, most of today's CD pressings of "Satisfaction" are back to the mono version and most stations play the mono track. Fortunately, my station DOES have the Stereo version and ONLY plays the true Stereo version. In addition, we also play the true Stereo versions of the Fleetwood's "Come Softly, Darling", The Beach Boys' "God Only Knows" and "Wouldn't Be Nice". "Good Vibrations" (sadly) was never released in Stereo as Brian Wilson was deaf in one-ear, at the time that song was released. That song took over 6 months blend and master. If any song should have been recorded in Stereo, "Good Vibrations" should have been the one.

Some of the other songs I play on 'XRB that were recorded in TRUE Stereo include The Crests' "The Angels Listened In", Buddy Holly's "True Love Ways" and "It Don't Matter Anymore" and Reflections' "Just Like Romeo and Juliet" and more. I too do not like "psuedo-Stereo" pressings of oldies. I would rather hear a pure mono version of a song rather than some electronically enhanced recording. I DO have King Harvest's "Dancing In The Moonlight" in full Stereo. That was a very simple recording that really rocked back in 1973. The mono version (the 45 version) is the one that most stations play today. But, I prefer the Stereo version myself and play that one.


73,

Peter Q. George (K1XRB)
CE/GM, WXRB-FM & Superstation WXRB-FM
http://wxrbfm.com


> I love stereo oldies. I'm not talking the electric stereo
> versions. I'm talkking the aulturnit, true, or wide stereo
> mixes. Where do people get the things like
> Roaling Stones Last Time or Satisfaction in True Stereo?
> How about Beach Boys Good vibrations or God Only Knows?
> Fleedwoods "Why and Come S Softly to me
> (Come Softly is a wide stereo)
> 4 Seasons Rag Doll
> There are a lot more that I can't think of off the top of my
> head, but I love this stereo stuff.
> Its hard to find on CD> Not even sure if vinyl had real
> stereo, or that fake stereo sound.
> I hate the fake stereo sound the kind where they just use a
> different EQ or echo to make people think its stereo, I like
> the actual 2-track, 3-track, etc recordings.
> Beatles "Please Please me, and 62-66 do not have stereo on
> CD.
> For example the first I think its five tracks on the CD
> version of 62-66 are mono. Yet they can be found if listend
> to on a stereo LP.
> Please Please me does not exist in stereo at all on CD.
>
> Sounds like finding good stereo copies of stuff like this
> can be tricky and hard to do.
> How about King Harvus Dancing 'N The Moonlite stereo?
> Or motown stereo?
> Any thoughts ideas or comments to what I've posed?
> John
> <P ID="signature">______________
Peter Q. George (K1XRB)
Whitman, Massachusetts</P>
 
> I try to get the true Stereo versions of the original songs
> from the 1950's and 1960's on my station (WXRB-FM). The
> true-stereo version "Satisfaction" by the Stones is somewhat
> rare now. It was available during the mid to late 1980's
> when CD's were "the new thing". But now, most of today's CD
> pressings of "Satisfaction" are back to the mono version and
> most stations play the mono track. Fortunately, my station
> DOES have the Stereo version and ONLY plays the true Stereo
> version.

I think many radio stations considered the true stereo version of "Satisfaction" to lack "punch". The drums, bass, and lead fuzz guitar which are prominent in the mono mix are all on one side in the stereo mix, and the acoustic guitar and piano which are barely audible in the mono mix are brought up in the other channel, resulting in a thinner, softer sound.

I don't know what CD this is on, but recently I've been hearing a newly remixed true stereo version of "Satisfaction" on some stations, with the drums, bass and guitar centered and brought up to bring the "punch" back. The piano and acoustic guitar are still separated, and have been brought way down. This new version would be essentially mono if not for the separated and subdued piano and acoustic guitar.
 
> I love stereo oldies. I'm not talking the electric stereo
> versions. I'm talkking the aulturnit, true, or wide stereo
> mixes. There are a lot more that I can't think of off the top of my
> head, but I love this stereo stuff.
> Its hard to find on CD> Not even sure if vinyl had real
> stereo, or that fake stereo sound.
> I hate the fake stereo sound the kind where they just use a
> different EQ or echo to make people think its stereo, I like
> the actual 2-track, 3-track, etc recordings.

Not sure what you mean by "wide" stereo. Are you talking about all-the-instruments-on-the-right/all-vocals-on-the-left stereo? Ugh. It's enough to induce vertigo if you listen with headphones. Some fake stereo sounds pretty convincing if it's done with a comb filter. The muddy on one side/tinny on the other or phase-shifting the channels (old Capitol Duophonic) is pretty awful.

Dunno what aulturnit stereo is.
 
You lost me in this vast misspelled post wondering "if vinyl had real
stereo, or that fake stereo sound?"

Never heard of the term "wide Stereo mixes"? Usually this would point to fake stereo releases? However...

I once was told that you will see less separation from a CD recording while watching it on a scope, compared to vinyl. It might be true, not sure why?

About the early Beatles. If I am correct, their original music was recorded in Mono, and then released in fake stereo. I thought you didn't like fake stereo? Those "wide stereo mixes" on LP & CD are mostly fake re mixes. I actually remember when you could pick either the Mono or Stereo versions at the record stores. Remember songs like Monday Monday & California Dreaming? Perhaps that's what you are referring to as wide stereo, yet it's 100% real.

And King Harvest wasn't in Stereo? Are you sure? Many 45's played on the Radio had a Mono & Stereo side through the mid 70's, perhaps a mistake was made at the local loading level. I'm listening to Top Loader's version right now!

Here's two super Real© Stereo songs for your oldies collection. "I had to much to dream (Last Night)", by the Electric Prunes, and Kenny Rogers "Just Dropped In (To See What My Condition Was In)" ! Yeah yeah, oh yeah!


> I love stereo oldies. I'm not talking the electric stereo
> versions. I'm talkking the aulturnit, true, or wide stereo
> mixes. Where do people get the things like
> Roaling Stones Last Time or Satisfaction in True Stereo?
> How about Beach Boys Good vibrations or God Only Knows?
> Fleedwoods "Why and Come S Softly to me
> (Come Softly is a wide stereo)
> 4 Seasons Rag Doll
> There are a lot more that I can't think of off the top of my
> head, but I love this stereo stuff.
> Its hard to find on CD> Not even sure if vinyl had real
> stereo, or that fake stereo sound.
> I hate the fake stereo sound the kind where they just use a
> different EQ or echo to make people think its stereo, I like
> the actual 2-track, 3-track, etc recordings.
> Beatles "Please Please me, and 62-66 do not have stereo on
> CD.
> For example the first I think its five tracks on the CD
> version of 62-66 are mono. Yet they can be found if listend
> to on a stereo LP.
> Please Please me does not exist in stereo at all on CD.
>
> Sounds like finding good stereo copies of stuff like this
> can be tricky and hard to do.
> How about King Harvus Dancing 'N The Moonlite stereo?
> Or motown stereo?
> Any thoughts ideas or comments to what I've posed?
> John
>
 
When CBSFM was oldies they used to play stereo version Of Satisfaction and other songs, then one day Satisfaction, and a lot of the 60s motown songs were in mono on CBSFM which was stupid since the stereo versions did sound much better. The only song i heard in Wide stereo that didn't sound good was Ronnie by the 4 seasons on CBSFM. That stereo mix was terrible, the mono version of that song was much better.

> > I try to get the true Stereo versions of the original
> songs
> > from the 1950's and 1960's on my station (WXRB-FM). The
> > true-stereo version "Satisfaction" by the Stones is
> somewhat
> > rare now. It was available during the mid to late 1980's
> > when CD's were "the new thing". But now, most of today's
> CD
> > pressings of "Satisfaction" are back to the mono version
> and
> > most stations play the mono track. Fortunately, my
> station
> > DOES have the Stereo version and ONLY plays the true
> Stereo
> > version.
>
> I think many radio stations considered the true stereo
> version of "Satisfaction" to lack "punch". The drums, bass,
> and lead fuzz guitar which are prominent in the mono mix are
> all on one side in the stereo mix, and the acoustic guitar
> and piano which are barely audible in the mono mix are
> brought up in the other channel, resulting in a thinner,
> softer sound.
>
> I don't know what CD this is on, but recently I've been
> hearing a newly remixed true stereo version of
> "Satisfaction" on some stations, with the drums, bass and
> guitar centered and brought up to bring the "punch" back.
> The piano and acoustic guitar are still separated, and have
> been brought way down. This new version would be essentially
> mono if not for the separated and subdued piano and acoustic
> guitar.
>
 
Re: Stereo Oldies-Split Level Head

Have you heard I Live In A Split Level Head by Napolean XIV? I think it was around 1966. In the song, he was singing different things in each channel of the stereo, at times.

Was that fake or authentic stereo?

Jerry Samuels was a recording engineer.<P ID="signature">______________
[email protected]</P>
 
Re: King Harvest mono... Stereo Oldies

I've heard the stereo version of King Harvest's great song, yet every time I've seen it on a CD, it's always in mono, including that Have A Nice Day 70s CD series, if my memory doesn't fail me. Kind of a disappointment since it's so late in the years for mono. But then so was JOE JACKSON'S IS SHE REALLY GOING OUT WITH HIM - flat mono on the single.


> And King Harvest wasn't in Stereo? Are you sure? Many 45's
> played on the Radio had a Mono & Stereo side through the mid
> 70's, perhaps a mistake was made at the local loading level.
> I'm listening to Top Loader's version right now!
>
 
The Rolling Stones' 60s songs are troubled in terms of stereo. Most aren't available, even the CDs that say on the outside the songs are stereo have been flat inside.

Check this board out. They go into more depth on these matters.

http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/mb/bsnpubs?forum=6414

RAG DOLL is in stereo. It's on a FOUR SEASONS CD I have. That's a great MID-60s song ignored by "oldies" radio. It knocked the other fab four off the charts in '64, like the Beach Boys did with I GET AROUND, yet you never hear that Four Season's No. 1 gem anymore. It's often considered one of their better songs. So much for "the greatest hits of the 60s and 70s."

GOD ONLY KNOWS is in stereo. It's on the recent (6 years ago or so) PET SOUNDS remastering and remixing. GOOD VIBES hasn't ever been released in true stereo before since the vocal tracks may be missing.

> I love stereo oldies. I'm not talking the electric stereo
> versions. I'm talkking the aulturnit, true, or wide stereo
> mixes. Where do people get the things like
> Roaling Stones Last Time or Satisfaction in True Stereo?
> How about Beach Boys Good vibrations or God Only Knows?
> Fleedwoods "Why and Come S Softly to me
> (Come Softly is a wide stereo)
> 4 Seasons Rag Doll
> There are a lot more that I can't think of off the top of my
> head, but I love this stereo stuff.
> Its hard to find on CD> Not even sure if vinyl had real
> stereo, or that fake stereo sound.
> I hate the fake stereo sound the kind where they just use a
> different EQ or echo to make people think its stereo, I like
> the actual 2-track, 3-track, etc recordings.
> Beatles "Please Please me, and 62-66 do not have stereo on
> CD.
> For example the first I think its five tracks on the CD
> version of 62-66 are mono. Yet they can be found if listend
> to on a stereo LP.
> Please Please me does not exist in stereo at all on CD.
>
> Sounds like finding good stereo copies of stuff like this
> can be tricky and hard to do.
> How about King Harvus Dancing 'N The Moonlite stereo?
> Or motown stereo?
> Any thoughts ideas or comments to what I've posed?
> John
>
 
> I love stereo oldies. I'm not talking the electric stereo
> versions. I'm talkking the aulturnit, true, or wide stereo
> mixes. Where do people get the things like
> Roaling Stones Last Time or Satisfaction in True Stereo?
> How about Beach Boys Good vibrations or God Only Knows?
> Fleedwoods "Why and Come S Softly to me
> (Come Softly is a wide stereo)
> 4 Seasons Rag Doll
> There are a lot more that I can't think of off the top of my
> head, but I love this stereo stuff.
> Its hard to find on CD> Not even sure if vinyl had real
> stereo, or that fake stereo sound.
> I hate the fake stereo sound the kind where they just use a
> different EQ or echo to make people think its stereo, I like
> the actual 2-track, 3-track, etc recordings.
> Beatles "Please Please me, and 62-66 do not have stereo on
> CD.
> For example the first I think its five tracks on the CD
> version of 62-66 are mono. Yet they can be found if listend
> to on a stereo LP.
> Please Please me does not exist in stereo at all on CD.
>
> Sounds like finding good stereo copies of stuff like this
> can be tricky and hard to do.
> How about King Harvus Dancing 'N The Moonlite stereo?
> Or motown stereo?
> Any thoughts ideas or comments to what I've posed?
> John
>


There was a period between the years of 59-61 that top record labels were releasing stereo 45's of the latest top 40 records. Originally they were designed for juke boxes and the kids those days only had transistor radios to listen to. The 45's didn't really sell well because Hi-Fi's as the terminology goes were too expensive for teen agers and eventually the stereo 45 faded out. Not to reappear until 68' "Sky Pilot" The Animals and a few others I can't recall as I'm currently posting this at the top of mind.
I understand that these hits were great recordings in stereo and actually don't have the collector's demand as the mono version original label commanded the higher collector's price. You might want to ask some oldies vendors that may still sell you these at 10.00 pop. If that's what the market price is today.
 
> About the early Beatles. If I am correct, their original
> music was recorded in Mono, and then released in fake
> stereo.

That was for some songs on the American LP versions for the most part. Some of the stereo versions at first didn't originally make it across the pond to Capitol in the U.S., who applied "fake stereo" to some of the mono 45 mixes for the American LP's. This was usually the technique of using echo and time delay betweem the two channels. The true stereo versions were on the British releases, and eventually made it over to the U.S. for various LP reissues and for the CD remasters.

Some people call the early Beatles tracks that (for the most part) have the vocals all on one side and the instruments on the other "fake stereo", but they're not. They are true stereo, though a primitive form. They do have discreet separation of tracks between the channels, which "fake stereo" does not have.
 
Re: Stereo Oldies-Split Level Head

> Have you heard I Live In A Split Level Head by Napolean XIV?
> I think it was around 1966. In the song, he was singing
> different things in each channel of the stereo, at times.
>
> Was that fake or authentic stereo?

Since it had discreet separation between channels, I would call it true stereo.

Fake stereo is the process of taking a one-channel (mono) recording and using various techniques to alter the sound of the different channels to attempt to make it sound like it may be stereo.
 
Stereo 45's and LP's

What Eli said about the Beatles makes perfect sense. Record companies have been recording in stereo since the early 1950's. All 45s manufactured by all labels after 1970 were pressed in stereo. However many labels selectively pressed 45s in stereo between 1957 and 1970. These early stereo 45s (especially 1950s) have values up to 10 times the mono releases.

Almost all LPs manufactured by all labels after 1970 were pressed in stereo. However many labels selectively pressed LPs in stereo after 1954. Early stereo LPs (especially 1950s) have values up to 4 times the mono releases.

I wonder if this one was pressed in Stereo?

http://kidshow.dcmemories.com/Ronald45LabelOnly.gif




> There was a period between the years of 59-61 that top
> record labels were releasing stereo 45's of the latest top
> 40 records. Originally they were designed for juke boxes and
> the kids those days only had transistor radios to listen to.
> The 45's didn't really sell well because Hi-Fi's as the
> terminology goes were too expensive for teen agers and
> eventually the stereo 45 faded out. Not to reappear until
> 68' "Sky Pilot" The Animals and a few others I can't recall
> as I'm currently posting this at the top of mind.
> I understand that these hits were great recordings in stereo
> and actually don't have the collector's demand as the mono
> version original label commanded the higher collector's
> price. You might want to ask some oldies vendors that may
> still sell you these at 10.00 pop. If that's what the market
> price is today.
>
 
I don't know where you're listening, but I've heard plenty of spins of "Rag Doll" over the years on oldies radio, including this year.
 
> [There was a period between the years of 59-61 that top
> record labels were releasing stereo 45's of the latest top
> 40 records. Originally they were designed for juke boxes and
> the kids those days only had transistor radios to listen to.
> The 45's didn't really sell well because Hi-Fi's as the
> terminology goes were too expensive for teen agers and
> eventually the stereo 45 faded out. Not to reappear until
> 68' "Sky Pilot" The Animals and a few others I can't recall
> as I'm currently posting this at the top of mind.
> I understand that these hits were great recordings in stereo
> and actually don't have the collector's demand as the mono
> version original label commanded the higher collector's
> price. You might want to ask some oldies vendors that may
> still sell you these at 10.00 pop. If that's what the market
> price is today.]


It's interesting about stereo 45s, because stereo LPs were around in the early 60s. I remember buying a copy of the "Meet The Beatles" LP. The store clerk actually apologized to me because she only had stereo copies.....the mono versions were sold out. I was looking for stereo, so that was fine. I think it was a record company marketing strategy. Unlike today, singles (mono 45s) were released first. We bought the 45s. Then, a few months later, the hits appeared on stereo LPs. Stereo record players were becomming more popular and many of us wanted those hits in stereo. So we bought the LPs. Most of the other songs on those LPs were just "fillers" (although over the years we've found some real gems in there). So this resulted in a double sale for the record company.
 
Re: Stereo 45's and LP's

> What Eli said about the Beatles makes perfect sense. Record
> companies have been recording in stereo since the early
> 1950's. All 45s manufactured by all labels after 1970 were
> pressed in stereo.

Absolutely not true! Up until the mid-70s or so 45s seemed to be a mix of mono & stereo, with no real pattern to it (ie-one hit by an artist would be in stereo, the follow-up only mono). I think "Angie" was the first Rolling Stones song to be issued in stereo (other than promo copies)...and that was from late '73. I don't recall seeing too many mono 45s by 1975, though someone mentioned a Joe Jackson song from the late 70s that was in mono.

>
> Almost all LPs manufactured by all labels after 1970 were
> pressed in stereo. However many labels selectively pressed
> LPs in stereo after 1954. Early stereo LPs (especially
> 1950s) have values up to 4 times the mono releases.
>

I think it was earlier than that when mono LPs were phased out...I want to say 1968. My guess is that 45s were issued in mono partly to force people to buy the album...the master discs existed in stereo...most radio promo copies were mono on one side/stereo on the other by the early 70s.
 
that's really odd

wow- very unusual. I can understand a lot of the 60's releases but something as recent as Joe Jackson is REALLY unusual.


> I've heard the stereo version of King Harvest's great song,
> yet every time I've seen it on a CD, it's always in mono,
> including that Have A Nice Day 70s CD series, if my memory
> doesn't fail me. Kind of a disappointment since it's so
> late in the years for mono. But then so was JOE JACKSON'S IS
> SHE REALLY GOING OUT WITH HIM - flat mono on the single.
 
Re: Stereo 45's and LP's

> > What Eli said about the Beatles makes perfect sense.
> Record
> > companies have been recording in stereo since the early
> > 1950's. All 45s manufactured by all labels after 1970 were
>
> > pressed in stereo.
>
> Absolutely not true! Up until the mid-70s or so 45s seemed
> to be a mix of mono & stereo, with no real pattern to it
> (ie-one hit by an artist would be in stereo, the follow-up
> only mono). I think "Angie" was the first Rolling Stones
> song to be issued in stereo (other than promo copies)...and
> that was from late '73. I don't recall seeing too many mono
> 45s by 1975, though someone mentioned a Joe Jackson song
> from the late 70s that was in mono.
>
> >

45's got up to around 45% (take alittle less or more) stereo pertaining what was released starting around 1972. Even though I believe Sky Pilot was the 1st or second 45 to be released in true stereo. I have both copies of the recording. The MGM black label it was pressed in mono, till only several weeks later MGM had a logo change (gold and blue) and then the single was in stereo it's second printing. 1968 the year. There was another one I can't recall even though I had or have it, I can't think of it right now (eithier in 68 or 69) that came out before or after also a stereo 45 original label!

My above post were not pertaining to LP's, just 45's. They've always been in stereo, but geared more toward adults who have Hi-Fi's.

> > Almost all LPs manufactured by all labels after 1970 were
> > pressed in stereo. However many labels selectively pressed
>
> > LPs in stereo after 1954. Early stereo LPs (especially
> > 1950s) have values up to 4 times the mono releases.
> >
>
> I think it was earlier than that when mono LPs were phased
> out...I want to say 1968. My guess is that 45s were issued
> in mono partly to force people to buy the album...the master
> discs existed in stereo...most radio promo copies were mono
> on one side/stereo on the other by the early 70s.
>
Interesting, I was too yound too think of it that way, but they did release stereo 45's back in the 50's. Eddie Cochrane, Rick Nelson, etc., they didn't sell. They used them for jukeboxes primarily. I wasn't around in the 50's, but who had a gear back then? besides the adults, and I know they couldn't care about those recordings. (maybe until later).

Your
 
Sometimes Artists preferred to release Mono versions?

> wow- very unusual. I can understand a lot of the 60's
> releases but something as recent as Joe Jackson is REALLY
> unusual.

Well I do see it was released in both Mono & Stereo on a Single, and Stereo on the Album

Jackson, Joe
I'm The Man (Edited Version) (Mono) B/W I'm The Man (Edited Version) (Stereo)
US
7", DJ
$3.00

Jackson, Joe
Is She Really Going Out With Him? (Mono) B/W Is She Really Going Out With Him? (Stereo)
US
7", DJ
$3.00

> IS SHE REALLY GOING OUT WITH HIM - flat mono on the single.
 
May be in your market but the so-called oldies stations I've heard over the last couple of years seem to be downplaying even MID-60s, playing only the biggies like MY GUY and THE BEATLES. I never hear LAST KISS - a gem from that great year - RONNIE or many other greats tha have disappeared.

CBS-FM, before it vomited, hardly ever touched anything in that era, focusing more on 1967-on.


> I don't know where you're listening, but I've heard plenty
> of spins of "Rag Doll" over the years on oldies radio,
> including this year.
>
 
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