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Stereo Tool Question (Breakaway as well)

C

chriscollins

I have a great computer with an SSD and a Digigram VX222 (which I consider to be a great card, I use Digigram in Audiovault)...

Would I really lose anything if I used ST or Breakaway as front end and then an older processor as a stereo generator, since I have that laying around in abundance? I really want to try this on the air and our budget is froze pretty solid (I could get the program, but not the Marian card).

Input?

I have Optimod 8100A's, and 8200, etc... Just setting on the shelf. My thought was the 8200, since it is a digital Stereo Generator.
 
Should work using bbp L/R output into the analog ins on the 8200.Give it ago. Did sequester keep you from buying a 299.00 or less Marian Trace alpha? (lol) You really need it to do 192 and no tilt adj. Have fun..Hell sell one of those worn out 8100's...
 
Short answer: yes you WILL lose quality.
The performance of both Breakaway and Stereotool is partly due to the 'integration' of the stereocoder. Remember Bob's 8000? First all-in-one-box and a big leap forward because of the integration. What you are suggesting now is using a state-of-the-art processor but using an old (sorry...) stereocoder for the last step.

My two cents: sell the Digigram, buy a Marian Trace...
 
Assuming that the Digigram card is DC straight, and the stereo generator does its job well, the loss in quality/loudness should be limited. However, you won't be able to use things like a composite limiter or clipper in Stereo Tool. Also, make sure that you can feed pre-emphasized sound into the stereo coder, you don't want to de-emphasize and then re-emphasize it (not that that's bad, but if the curves are not completely identical you could get into problems).
 
richard.vanderveen said:
Short answer: yes you WILL lose quality.
The performance of both Breakaway and Stereotool is partly due to the 'integration' of the stereocoder. Remember Bob's 8000? First all-in-one-box and a big leap forward because of the integration. What you are suggesting now is using a state-of-the-art processor but using an old (sorry...) stereocoder for the last step.

My two cents: sell the Digigram, buy a Marian Trace...
Click to expand...

Done
 
For a school station I rigged up BBP going in to the test jacks of an 8100 to use as the stereo generator. Of course, not a major market loudness war, but it sure held its own and there was no overshoot.

BBP's stereo generator doesn't have composite clipping. Your stereo separation will be higher doing it in software, but there's no loudness advantage as long as the outboard stereo generator you're using doesn't have any lowpass filtering on it. As for the 8100 used in this example, the test jacks feed the stereo generator directly. All of the lowpass filtering in Breakaway is done in L/R.''

The Omina.9, however, has a totally different stereo/composite generator and you will lose loudness if you don't use composite out.
 
hvz said:
Assuming that the Digigram card is DC straight, and the stereo generator does its job well, the loss in quality/loudness should be limited. However, you won't be able to use things like a composite limiter or clipper in Stereo Tool. Also, make sure that you can feed pre-emphasized sound into the stereo coder, you don't want to de-emphasize and then re-emphasize it (not that that's bad, but if the curves are not completely identical you could get into problems).
Click to expand...

Hans,

What are your top two card recommendations for ST?
 
The Marian Trace takes a few weeks to order, but comes DC straight and has exhibits tremendous lack-of-overshoot performance.
 
chriscollins said:
hvz said:
Assuming that the Digigram card is DC straight, and the stereo generator does its job well, the loss in quality/loudness should be limited. However, you won't be able to use things like a composite limiter or clipper in Stereo Tool. Also, make sure that you can feed pre-emphasized sound into the stereo coder, you don't want to de-emphasize and then re-emphasize it (not that that's bad, but if the curves are not completely identical you could get into problems).
Click to expand...

Hans,

What are your top two card recommendations for ST?
Click to expand...
#1 = Marian Trace Alpha. #2 = Marian Trace Alpha. There is no substitute. Suggestion...find someone else who wants a Trace Alpha and order 2 or more of them. Shipping isn't cheap and buying 2 or more & shipping them together saves significant money. And do NOT order from the US vendor--you'll only waste time & it won't ever arrive. Buy from the factory only.
 
oldiesstation said:
ST is hands down the clear winner over BBP with more goodies on the way.You'll like it...
Click to expand...

I don't like it from the simple fact that it's aCPU resource hog. If they would learn to optimize the code for every update they release, I might reconsider.

R
 
Robert Bass said:
I don't like it from the simple fact that it's aCPU resource hog. If they would learn to optimize the code for every update they release, I might reconsider.
Click to expand...
True. But check this question. Would you like to use Omnia.9 Software on your PC ?
 
Bojcha said:
Robert Bass said:
I don't like it from the simple fact that it's aCPU resource hog. If they would learn to optimize the code for every update they release, I might reconsider.
Click to expand...
True. But check this question. Would you like to use Omnia.9 Software on your PC ?
Click to expand...

I like and use Breakaway because it sounds great and is stable on the PC I have. I don't have any money to throw at a brand new PC with enough resources to handle ST. Someone else I know tried ST and switched to Breakaway for the exact same reason. If I really wanted Omnia that bad, I'd buy an actual box.

R
 
I had to shuffle PC's around to make ST work comfortably but my last new PC was new in 2007...so I was overdue. Make no mistake...BBP is a great product and it's rock solid reliable. The BBP distortion on dry voice is something I lived with for a long time. With ST, that issue is history. BBP is Good...ST is Better and worth noting, it's getting better all the time. If I had not been due for a new PC, I'm not sure I'd be speaking from this platform. But for me, ST's timetable and mine were in sync and I couldn't be more pleased with where I am now. Next project may be to build a rack mounted version.
 
Bobonthejob is dead-on Right!! (nice preset too!)

Buy AT LEAST 2 Marian Trace Alphas. (main and backup)

I did and I love the "sound" of the cards. The software is OK.

Buy Direct from the factory - cheaper price. I was in between batches, so it took mine a few months to arrive.
I think mine was 199 Euros (each) plus shipping (No VAT)

Get together and order several NOW!

How many people on this board would go together for an order? I might be interested in getting another one.
 
If you want a cleaner sound and the ablility to run with the big dogs, a modern computer platform is a small price to pay.

That said, ST runs at 50 to 60% on a 2ghz core2duo for me now. Stable. BBP ran about 30% with airomate, at the same time.

With ST i have more control than I can conceive and it sounds amazing on dry voice. Hans is onto something.

Serious.
 
I understand the need for the Marian Trace Alpha. But is anyone using its big brother, the 'Trace Pro'? It was the card used in the Omnia 9 prototype.
 
I don't really understand the issue of ST using 50% CPU on a 2 core 2Ghz system. A system that meets those kind of requirements is cheap. And besides that, does anyone know how much resources are used in a dedicated hardware box like Orban/Omnia etc? Might well be that it's running at 80% or more all the time, you just don't know it and why should you care? IIRC the early 8200 platform lacked computing power in those days as it was expensive so might well be that it was running nearly 100% all the time. Did anybody (beside Orban) care about that? No, you just plugged it in and went on your way not knowing. Actually I would be amazed if an hardware box is not using more than 50% of the resources because that means that there's room for more goodies to improve the sound and I'm not using the full potential of the box.
 
ChiefOperator said:
I understand the need for the Marian Trace Alpha. But is anyone using its big brother, the 'Trace Pro'? It was the card used in the Omnia 9 prototype.
Click to expand...
Leif was recommending the Trace 8 for use with BBP. When I asked him about using the Trace Alpha, he didn't seem aware of it (this was long before the Omnia 9 days). He said that as long as it was DC coupled, it should work as well as the 8. I confirmed with Marian that the Alpha was indeed DC coupled and proceeded. I wasn't aware of the Trace Pro (but am now) but can't see where it adds any function beyond XLR's vs the on board 1/4" TRS connectors on the Alpha. The value in using an 8 may be in feeding a low latency monitor output in BBP. When using the Trace Alpha with BBP, it seems the low latency monitor output was not available to be assigned to another sound card...at least a non-ASIO card.
 
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