Stick location and COL

[Radio_Realist]

I looked up some things on the PBRTV transmitter site map.

KDKA's tower is about the exact same distance from the point (the heart of Pittsburgh) as the center of Duquesne. KDKA's stick is also not in the city of Pittsburgh! I wonder why no one ever questions whether or not KDKA adequately serves the needs of Reserve Township (or whatever 'burb it's located in).

WZUM's stick (COL Carnegie) is located closer to the Point than the stick for WJAS, and almost twice as close to the point as KDKA's stick.

Neither WAMO (AM), KQV, WBGG, WPIT, WORD, WEAE, nor WKST have their sticks actually in Pittsburgh.

 

[OldAkronite]

> Neither WAMO (AM), KQV, WBGG, WPIT, WORD, WEAE, nor WKST
> have their sticks actually in Pittsburgh.

Harkening back to the proposed move of WWVA/1170 from Wheeling to a Stow (Akron suburb) COL...

The proposed transmitter site was just west of the Cuyahoga/Lorain County line, just west of Strongsville on Rt. 82. I believe the jurisdiction would be Columbia Township. No doubt we wouldn't have heard "Columbia Township Today" on 1170.

Now, of course, with a 50,000 watt stick proposed to be throwing juice at Cleveland and Akron, they could get away with a Stow COL...even though Stow is a good 40 miles or so from that location. Maybe 30-35 if you count the farthest western reaches of Stow, which annexed a good bunch of land along the Route 8 corridor long ago.

Now that it won't be built, I guess we'll never find out how they proposed to do the east-heading night pattern so it wouldn't infringe too much on stations like WHAM/1180 Rochester (also owned by CC), or for that matter, what they proposed to do with Family Stations' second adjacent WCUE/1150 in the Akron suburb of Cuyahoga Falls!

-OA<P ID="signature">______________
Ohio Media Watch - <a target="_blank" href=http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com>http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com</a></P>

 

[Part-timer]

> I looked up some things on the PBRTV transmitter site map.
>
> KDKA's tower is about the exact same distance from the point
> (the heart of Pittsburgh) as the center of Duquesne. KDKA's
> stick is also not in the city of Pittsburgh! I wonder why no
> one ever questions whether or not KDKA adequately serves the
> needs of Reserve Township (or whatever 'burb it's located
> in).
>
> WZUM's stick (COL Carnegie) is located closer to the Point
> than the stick for WJAS, and almost twice as close to the
> point as KDKA's stick.
>
> Neither WAMO (AM), KQV, WBGG, WPIT, WORD, WEAE, nor WKST
> have their sticks actually in Pittsburgh.
>

The stick has to put a city-grade contour (a strong signal, for you non-techie types) over the COL, it doesn't have to be in the city.

In Florida we see far more latitude taken with these things, as our distance from Canada and Mexico makes 100kW FMs possible. Combine that with the flat terrain and you've got all sorts of crazy stff.

Orlando's one of the best examples... one 5 or 6 FMs in the market are actually licensed to Orlando, the rest are from Cocoa Beach (2), Daytona (2), Deland, and Mt.Dora, all of which are 40-60 miles away.<P ID="signature">______________
"With God as my witness, I could have sworn turkeys could fly."</P>

 

[JohnnyMorganWXJX]

> I looked up some things on the PBRTV transmitter site map.
>
> KDKA's tower is about the exact same distance from the point
> (the heart of Pittsburgh) as the center of Duquesne. KDKA's
> stick is also not in the city of Pittsburgh! I wonder why no
> one ever questions whether or not KDKA adequately serves the
> needs of Reserve Township (or whatever 'burb it's located
> in).
>
> WZUM's stick (COL Carnegie) is located closer to the Point
> than the stick for WJAS, and almost twice as close to the
> point as KDKA's stick.
>
> Neither WAMO (AM), KQV, WBGG, WPIT, WORD, WEAE, nor WKST
> have their sticks actually in Pittsburgh.
>

Because the argument is not service to the transmitter site--but service to the community/city of license, a legality required by the FCC. And it is brought up by me for the purpose of proving a point that the COL deserves more attention than it is getting now.

I'm not making the argument that KDKA's stick should be in Pittsburgh (though it was in Lawrenceville until about 25 years ago). Stick placement is determined by what would provide the best coverage for your signal, including city-grade.

And it's Allison Park, just off Rt. 8.

 

[Radio_Realist]

> Because the argument is not service to the transmitter
> site--but service to the community/city of license, a
> legality required by the FCC. And it is brought up by me
> for the purpose of proving a point that the COL deserves
> more attention than it is getting now.
>
> I'm not making the argument that KDKA's stick should be in
> Pittsburgh (though it was in Lawrenceville until about 25
> years ago). Stick placement is determined by what would
> provide the best coverage for your signal, including
> city-grade.
>
> And it's Allison Park, just off Rt. 8.

But there is no municipality of Allison Park. Allison Park is just a post office that serves parts of Hampton Township, Indiana Township, Shaler, and other townships and boroughs. City of License (or Community of License) should, I assume, refer to a bona-fide political entity, not just a catch-all zip code.

And that's the problem with arguments about "service to the community/city of license". Back in the 1920's, the suburbs that were granted radio licenses were distinct, separate communities, with unique needs of their own. Now, in the third millenium, urban sprawl has turned what used to be discrete communities into nothing but arbitrary neighborhoods.

The service needs of the people who live in Allegheny County are not defined by which one of the 130 municipalities the county is divided into. So arguing that a station should concentrate on the needs of whichever municipality it is licensed to makes little sense. The concept that a City of License has special unique needs in this day and age is an archaic concept.

If stations are to be expected to serve the needs of the municipality they are licensed to, then what about those municipalities who have no stations licensed to them at all? Should they be ignored?

If Froggy is supposed to concentrate on serving the needs of Duquense, when what station should serve the needs of Whitaker, West Mifflin, or North Versailles? If WZUM serves Carnegie, what station should serve Crafton, Ingram, Scott Township, or Heidleberg?

And, if stations are supposed to concentrate on the needs of the COL, why are they given authorization for enough wattage to cover 10, 20 or even 100 times more territory than their COL?

 

[JohnnyMorganWXJX]

> > Because the argument is not service to the transmitter
> > site--but service to the community/city of license, a
> > legality required by the FCC. And it is brought up by me
> > for the purpose of proving a point that the COL deserves
> > more attention than it is getting now.
> >
> > I'm not making the argument that KDKA's stick should be in
>
> > Pittsburgh (though it was in Lawrenceville until about 25
> > years ago). Stick placement is determined by what would
> > provide the best coverage for your signal, including
> > city-grade.
> >
> > And it's Allison Park, just off Rt. 8.
>
> But there is no municipality of Allison Park. Allison Park
> is just a post office that serves parts of Hampton Township,
> Indiana Township, Shaler, and other townships and boroughs.
> City of License (or Community of License) should, I assume,
> refer to a bona-fide political entity, not just a catch-all
> zip code.

Here's the misunderstanding--KDKA is licensed to Pittsburgh (when it originally signed on in 1920, it was East Pittsburgh--the Westinghouse factory).

It doesn't matter where the stick is located. For many reasons, stations place their sticks in seemingly good reception areas or places where there was alot of land for such things (like the North Hills).

> And that's the problem with arguments about "service to the
> community/city of license". Back in the 1920's, the suburbs
> that were granted radio licenses were distinct, separate
> communities, with unique needs of their own. Now, in the
> third millenium, urban sprawl has turned what used to be
> discrete communities into nothing but arbitrary
> neighborhoods.
>
> The service needs of the people who live in Allegheny County
> are not defined by which one of the 130 municipalities the
> county is divided into. So arguing that a station should
> concentrate on the needs of whichever municipality it is
> licensed to makes little sense. The concept that a City of
> License has special unique needs in this day and age is an
> archaic concept.
>
> If stations are to be expected to serve the needs of the
> municipality they are licensed to, then what about those
> municipalities who have no stations licensed to them at all?
> Should they be ignored?
>
> If Froggy is supposed to concentrate on serving the needs of
> Duquense, when what station should serve the needs of
> Whitaker, West Mifflin, or North Versailles? If WZUM serves
> Carnegie, what station should serve Crafton, Ingram, Scott
> Township, or Heidleberg?
>
> And, if stations are supposed to concentrate on the needs of
> the COL, why are they given authorization for enough wattage
> to cover 10, 20 or even 100 times more territory than their
> COL?

Good points, but I'm not arguing that a station should serve only its city of license. Obviously that is impossible with the physical nature of radio waves--and we want stations to serve large populations.

I'm merely arguing that as a condition of being granted a station, and being granted a COL allocation (especially with a move-in), a station has a duty to tailor its public service in a small respect to its city of license.

I harken back to the Duquesne football game. We're talking 4 hours, for one game...especially in light of WOGI/Keymarket's previous narrowly-tailored public service to Duquesne (if any).

Again, I'm not advocating solely concentrating on Duquesne, or West Mifflin, or Munhall, or Dravosburg (what a great name!) But, if there's agreement that the COL concept is past its prime (an argument I'm not totally opposed to), then why have the silly COL requirement, such that Pittsburgh had too many stations, so we (WOGI) have to make up this farce that Duquesne was underserved (and that because Duquesne was so underserved that Charleroi should suffer)?

I take issue with the arbitrary neighborhoods statement, but that's for another board or email, not radio.

Anyway, to sum: I understand your point that the COL requirement is kinda goofy. But it's still used by the Commission, and I'm just arguing that if they're gonna keep the farce, then make it have some teeth or get rid of it. Don't make COL just a weak legality.

 

[Radio_Realist]

> Good points, but I'm not arguing that a station should serve
> only its city of license. Obviously that is impossible with
> the physical nature of radio waves--and we want stations to
> serve large populations.
>
> I'm merely arguing that as a condition of being granted a
> station, and being granted a COL allocation (especially with
> a move-in), a station has a duty to tailor its public
> service in a small respect to its city of license.

I agree with the part about a "small" respect. I think it should be VERY small. A station that operates over the public airwaves with a license to serve the public should be compelled as part of its requirement to retain its license to serve all of the people capable of receiving its signal. But I don't think there's any good reason for expecting a station like WOGI to do any special programming for the people who live in the 1.88 square miles that constitute the City of Duquense.

> I harken back to the Duquesne football game. We're talking
> 4 hours, for one game...especially in light of
> WOGI/Keymarket's previous narrowly-tailored public service
> to Duquesne (if any).

Even if WOGI should be expected to dedicate four hours of programming exclusively to Duquense, why should they broadcast a high school football game when there are so many Duquesnians who don't have any kids in high school, and who don't care about the game one way or the other. Given the number of senior citizens who live there, maybe they should air four hours of information for old people.

I'm being sarcastic to make a point.

> Again, I'm not advocating solely concentrating on Duquesne,
> or West Mifflin, or Munhall, or Dravosburg (what a great
> name!) But, if there's agreement that the COL concept is
> past its prime (an argument I'm not totally opposed to),
> then why have the silly COL requirement, such that
> Pittsburgh had too many stations, so we (WOGI) have to make
> up this farce that Duquesne was underserved (and that
> because Duquesne was so underserved that Charleroi should
> suffer)?

Given that WESA was just another adult contemporary outlet when it was on the air, I don't think the Charlatans (which is the local nickname for the residents of Charleroi -- I'm not making that up) suffered all that much of a loss by not having WESA as their "local" station.

And they still have WPNT on 940 for local programming. Not that there is any, but PBRTV indicates that the station is still there,

> I take issue with the arbitrary neighborhoods statement, but
> that's for another board or email, not radio.

I only meant that the lines that divide one municipality from another seldom have geographic meaning, like being a river, a valley, or other significant feature. Most folks from around here don't know where one municipality begins and the other ends. And look at how many people (like you) thought Allison Park was a municipality, not a just conveniently sized piece of land for delivering mail.

Most people who live in Allegheny County, when driving around the area, can tell you which municipality they are in at any given moment. Even my friends from Lawrenceville aren't 100% sure where Lawrenceville ends and Bloomfield begins, or where the line is that divides Mount Oliver from Mount Washington, or Oakland from Shadyside. That's what I meant by "arbitrary" neighborhoods.

> Anyway, to sum: I understand your point that the COL
> requirement is kinda goofy. But it's still used by the
> Commission, and I'm just arguing that if they're gonna keep
> the farce, then make it have some teeth or get rid of it.
> Don't make COL just a weak legality.

I guess that's the difference between how someone with a JD after their name views life, compared to someone with the letters MBA. I don't much care whether or not the government leaves the COL rules on the books or not, so long as they don't ever do anything to enforce them.