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Still another massive frequency swap

C

caveman97

Guest
The FCC is being asked to approve yet another massive FM frequency swap that affects the Phoenix area.
Summary: Aguila: Moves from 107.3 to 93.7. Aguila is about 20 miles west of Wickenburg.
Buckeye moves from 106.9 to 103.5 (now occupied by Glendale)
Glendale on 103.5 gets deleted.
Peoria gets 107.1 which is now occupied by Apache Junction.
Then either Wenden gets 106.9 or Wickenburg gets 93.7. Wenden is about fifteen miles west of Aguila. Complete details are in the Federal Register:

http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/01jan20051800/edocket.access.gpo.gov/2005/05-20444.htm
 
> The FCC is being asked to approve yet another massive FM
> frequency swap that affects the Phoenix area.
> Summary: Aguila: Moves from 107.3 to 93.7. Aguila
> is about 20 miles west of Wickenburg.
> Buckeye moves from 106.9 to 103.5 (now
> occupied by Glendale)
> Glendale on 103.5 gets deleted.
> Peoria gets 107.1 which is now occupied by Apache
> Junction.
> Then either Wenden gets 106.9 or Wickenburg gets
> 93.7. Wenden is about fifteen miles west of Aguila.
> Complete details are in the Federal Register:
>
http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257> /2422/01jan20051800/edocket.access.gpo.gov/2005/05-20444.htm
>

Let me try to simply this a little bit. This proposal gives Phoenix a great class C1 signal on 107.1 from a tower in the heart of the city licensed to Peoria. The 106.9 licenced to Buckeye is being moved west to Wenden to get out of the way for 107.1 to expand their coverage. 103.5 will take on the Buckeye city of licence with no facility change so that Buckeye keeps its "local" service. The 107.3 currently licenced to Aquila will move to 93.7 with the same facilities to make way for the new 107.1 signal.
 
> Let me try to simply this a little bit. This proposal gives
> Phoenix a great class C1 signal on 107.1 from a tower in the
> heart of the city licensed to Peoria. The 106.9 licenced to
> Buckeye is being moved west to Wenden to get out of the way
> for 107.1 to expand their coverage. 103.5 will take on the
> Buckeye city of licence with no facility change so that
> Buckeye keeps its "local" service. The 107.3 currently
> licenced to Aquila will move to 93.7 with the same
> facilities to make way for the new 107.1 signal.

Someone sure must be happy they're going to own a station in Wenden... make that the only station... in the entire Trivalley area of 4,000 people. It's not that Hispanic up there either.

What's the deal with 1150's CP to move to Apache Junction, yet they're only creating a new nighttime tower site, which is still in Coolidge?
 
> Let me try to simply this a little bit. This proposal gives
> Phoenix a great class C1 signal on 107.1 from a tower in the
> heart of the city licensed to Peoria. The 106.9 licenced to
> Buckeye is being moved west to Wenden to get out of the way
> for 107.1 to expand their coverage. 103.5 will take on the
> Buckeye city of licence with no facility change so that
> Buckeye keeps its "local" service. The 107.3 currently
> licenced to Aquila will move to 93.7 with the same
> facilities to make way for the new 107.1 signal.

Just wondering...will the move of the 107.3 signal to 93.7 interfere with reception of 93.7 KRQQ/Tucson? I am able to pick up KRQQ reasonably well in the car around town, and on one of my home radios, if the antenna is positioned right, I can pick it up almost static-free. It's my favorite CHR station in the state.
 
> Let me try to simply this a little bit. This proposal gives
> Phoenix a great class C1 signal on 107.1 from a tower in the
> heart of the city licensed to Peoria. The 106.9 licenced to
> Buckeye is being moved west to Wenden to get out of the way
> for 107.1 to expand their coverage. 103.5 will take on the
> Buckeye city of licence with no facility change so that
> Buckeye keeps its "local" service. The 107.3 currently
> licenced to Aquila will move to 93.7 with the same
> facilities to make way for the new 107.1 signal.

Is KDVA's transmitter actually being moved to Wenden? I'd heard that they were going dark once KVVA moves to Shaw Butte and the 106.9 allocation was going to be assigned to Ajo and now Wenden as well.
 
> Just wondering...will the move of the 107.3 signal to 93.7
> interfere with reception of 93.7 KRQQ/Tucson? I am able to
> pick up KRQQ reasonably well in the car around town, and on
> one of my home radios, if the antenna is positioned right, I
> can pick it up almost static-free. It's my favorite CHR
> station in the state.
>

Back when KSWG Wickenburg signed on at 93.7 (as KFMA, with a bunch of old KUKQ people) they pretty much killed reception of KRQQ from about Casa Grande north. I know KRQQ wasn't really happy about that allocation.

Where the heck is Aquila in relation to Phoenix and Tucson?<P ID="signature">______________
...co-moderator of the Satellite Radio, Phoenix, and San Diego boards...</P>
 
> Where the heck is Aquila in relation to Phoenix and Tucson?
>
Located between 25 and 30 miles due west of Wickenburg on Highway 60.
 
> Back when KSWG Wickenburg signed on at 93.7 (as KFMA, with a
> bunch of old KUKQ people) they pretty much killed reception
> of KRQQ from about Casa Grande north. I know KRQQ wasn't
> really happy about that allocation.
>

Usually stations could care less about their signals reach outside of the arbitron rated market they serve. This new 93.7 will be legally spaced and will not cause issues to KRQQ's protected coverage area.
 
> > Where the heck is Aquila in relation to Phoenix and
> Tucson?
> >
> Located between 25 and 30 miles due west of Wickenburg on
> Highway 60.
>

In other words, it's going to wipe out KRQQ around Casa Grande.<P ID="signature">______________
...co-moderator of the Satellite Radio, Phoenix, and San Diego boards...</P>
 
> In other words, it's going to wipe out KRQQ around Casa
> Grande.

I figured that would be the case...just wanted to confirm what I was dreading.

While so many Phoenix CHR/Pop stations have come and gone over the years, I've always been able to count on KRQQ to play hit music from a variety of genres, without any sort of "lean". (Haven't they been in this format, consistently, since 1977?)

It's a shame that these days will soon be gone...but I understand that KRQQ isn't targetting me, or anyone else around here.

And especially after witnessing the demises of KOY-FM March-September 1993, KKFR 1994-early 1995, KZZP April 1999-April 2001, and KPTY 2000, I doubt I can ever again be convinced that the KRQQ-type format will work in Phoenix. I don't think anyone will (or should) try it. What is right for Tucson doesn't necessarily right for Phoenix. I also believe that KRQQ's heritage and consistency is a significant factor in its success.

Thanks, everyone, for the great information (and for reading through my rant.)
 
>.
>
> Someone sure must be happy they're going to own a station in
> Wenden... make that the only station... in the entire
> Trivalley area of 4,000 people. It's not that Hispanic up
> there either.
>
>
I'd almost stake my life that no station will actually be located in either Wenden or Aguila. The stations will at very least attempt to serve metro Phoenix. Why the FCC buys into this Wenden, Mayer, Dewey and Sun City West nonsense is no easy thing to comprehend. Many years ago, I worked at a station licensed to Tolleson. It was amazing how fast they said "Tolleson" in the legal ID at the top of each hour (and how carefully they pronounced "Phoenix")
 
> >.
> >
> > Someone sure must be happy they're going to own a station
> in
> > Wenden... make that the only station... in the entire
> > Trivalley area of 4,000 people. It's not that Hispanic up
> > there either.
> >
> >
> I'd almost stake my life that no station will actually be
> located in either Wenden or Aguila. The stations will at
> very least attempt to serve metro Phoenix. Why the FCC
> buys into this Wenden, Mayer, Dewey and Sun City West
> nonsense is no easy thing to comprehend. Many years ago, I
> worked at a station licensed to Tolleson. It was amazing
> how fast they said "Tolleson" in the legal ID at the top of
> each hour (and how carefully they pronounced "Phoenix")

Combine both towns' distances from Phoenix with White Tanks blocking the signal, I'd be surprised if a station licensed to either Wenden or Aguila could target Phoenix.

Unless of course, owner of a future station on 93.7 were to BS the FCC into allowing their tower on White Tanks. Won't happen with 106.9.
 
> Combine both towns' distances from Phoenix with White Tanks
> blocking the signal, I'd be surprised if a station licensed
> to either Wenden or Aguila could target Phoenix.

Someone's going to try it. That doesn't mean that it's going to work.<P ID="signature">______________
...co-moderator of the Satellite Radio, Phoenix, and San Diego boards...</P>
 
> > In other words, it's going to wipe out KRQQ around Casa
> > Grande.
>
> I figured that would be the case...just wanted to confirm
> what I was dreading.
>
> While so many Phoenix CHR/Pop stations have come and gone
> over the years, I've always been able to count on KRQQ to
> play hit music from a variety of genres, without any sort of
> "lean". (Haven't they been in this format, consistently,
> since 1977?)
>
> It's a shame that these days will soon be gone...but I
> understand that KRQQ isn't targetting me, or anyone else
> around here.
>
> And especially after witnessing the demises of KOY-FM
> March-September 1993, KKFR 1994-early 1995, KZZP April
> 1999-April 2001, and KPTY 2000, I doubt I can ever again be
> convinced that the KRQQ-type format will work in Phoenix. I
> don't think anyone will (or should) try it. What is right
> for Tucson doesn't necessarily right for Phoenix. I also
> believe that KRQQ's heritage and consistency is a
> significant factor in its success.
>
> Thanks, everyone, for the great information (and for reading
> through my rant.)
>
Speaking of Tucson, wouldn't it be nice if we could actually get some stations that had some power in this town? It seems as though Phx eats up a lot of airspace (and is gobbling up more and more each day) even on frequencies that target Tucson (93.7, 97.5, etc). If you find a station that has less than 50,000 watts on its signal in Tucson, flip up or down a notch on the dial and you'll find a PHX station with 50,000 + watts.
 
> Speaking of Tucson, wouldn't it be nice if we
> could actually get some stations that had some
> power in this town? It seems as though Phx
> eats up a lot of airspace (and is gobbling up
> more and more each day) even on frequencies that
> target Tucson (93.7, 97.5, etc). If you find a
> station that has less than 50,000 watts on its
> signal in Tucson, flip up or down a notch on the dial
> and you'll find a PHX station with 50,000 + watts.

Tucson has a number of big-stick (full power class C)
FMs, all with somewhere around 93-94 gallons ERP:

92.9 - 93.7 - 94.9 - 96.1 - 99.5 - 107.5

Since their HAAT is around 2000 feet they can't ERP
to the 100kw max, but it's a comparable signal to the
South Mountain big sticks at +/- 1700 feet HAAT.
 
> > Speaking of Tucson, wouldn't it be nice if we
> > could actually get some stations that had some
> > power in this town? It seems as though Phx
> > eats up a lot of airspace (and is gobbling up
> > more and more each day) even on frequencies that
> > target Tucson (93.7, 97.5, etc). If you find a
> > station that has less than 50,000 watts on its
> > signal in Tucson, flip up or down a notch on the dial
> > and you'll find a PHX station with 50,000 + watts.
>
> Tucson has a number of big-stick (full power class C)
> FMs, all with somewhere around 93-94 gallons ERP:
>
> 92.9 - 93.7 - 94.9 - 96.1 - 99.5 - 107.5
>
> Since their HAAT is around 2000 feet they can't ERP
> to the 100kw max, but it's a comparable signal to the
> South Mountain big sticks at +/- 1700 feet HAAT.

> Yes 6 is a number, yet not a big one.
 
> > > Speaking of Tucson, wouldn't it be nice if we
> > > could actually get some stations that had some
> > > power in this town? It seems as though Phx
> > > eats up a lot of airspace (and is gobbling up
> > > more and more each day) even on frequencies that
> > > target Tucson (93.7, 97.5, etc). If you find a
> > > station that has less than 50,000 watts on its
> > > signal in Tucson, flip up or down a notch on the dial
> > > and you'll find a PHX station with 50,000 + watts.
> >
> > Tucson has a number of big-stick (full power class C)
> > FMs, all with somewhere around 93-94 gallons ERP:
> >
> > 92.9 - 93.7 - 94.9 - 96.1 - 99.5 - 107.5
> >
> > Since their HAAT is around 2000 feet they can't ERP
> > to the 100kw max, but it's a comparable signal to the
> > South Mountain big sticks at +/- 1700 feet HAAT.
>
> > Yes 6 is a number, yet not a big one.

Cities were originally allocated channels based on population at the time of the original table of allocations made when the FM band was moved to 88 to 108 mHz right after W.W. II.

Many new growth cities got too few stations, and many small towns that never grew got stations that, eventually, moved closer to the bigger cities. Tucson has always been smaller than Phoenix, so it got fewer stations. The rest are lower powerd drop ins and move ins.

Tucson has 7 full C's, and 4 more with 50 kw. There are 6 more with 10 kw to 25 kw. All these powers are more than enough to cover the metro.

Tucson has 1/3 the population of Phoenix... and that is why it has fewer allocations.
>
 
> Speaking of Tucson, wouldn't it be nice if we could actually
> get some stations that had some power in this town? It
> seems as though Phx eats up a lot of airspace (and is
> gobbling up more and more each day) even on frequencies that
> target Tucson (93.7, 97.5, etc). If you find a station that
> has less than 50,000 watts on its signal in Tucson, flip up
> or down a notch on the dial and you'll find a PHX station
> with 50,000 + watts.

It is not about power... it is a combination of power and height and the size of the market. The #1 FM in LA is 8000 watts. It is at the same transmitter sithe where 80% of the rest of the B's in LA are, and all but one are much higer powered. In other words, 8000 watts is enough. You don't need 100,000 watts to cover LA, which is about 13 times the population of Tucson, and you do not need 100 kw to cover Tucson. 2 kw on a good peak is totally adequate.
>
 
> > Speaking of Tucson, wouldn't it be nice if we could
> actually
> > get some stations that had some power in this town? It
> > seems as though Phx eats up a lot of airspace (and is
> > gobbling up more and more each day) even on frequencies
> that
> > target Tucson (93.7, 97.5, etc). If you find a station
> that
> > has less than 50,000 watts on its signal in Tucson, flip
> up
> > or down a notch on the dial and you'll find a PHX station
> > with 50,000 + watts.
>
> It is not about power... it is a combination of power and
> height and the size of the market. The #1 FM in LA is 8000
> watts. It is at the same transmitter sithe where 80% of the
> rest of the B's in LA are, and all but one are much higer
> powered. In other words, 8000 watts is enough. You don't
> need 100,000 watts to cover LA, which is about 13 times the
> population of Tucson, and you do not need 100 kw to cover
> Tucson. 2 kw on a good peak is totally adequate.
> >
>
There are stations here in Tucson that are not even 8,000 watts - 2000 on a good peak is NOT totally adequate. The sound quality sucks and the stations fade in and out when you drive around a mountain that is 5 mins from downtown Tucson - guess that doesn't happen too often in Phoenix, eh?
 
> >
> There are stations here in Tucson that are not even 8,000
> watts - 2000 on a good peak is NOT totally adequate.

It is if the site is in the market, not a rimshot.

> The
> sound quality sucks

Sound quality has no relationship to power.

> and the stations fade in and out when
> you drive around a mountain that is 5 mins from downtown
> Tucson - guess that doesn't happen too often in Phoenix, eh?

Yes, it does... with the rimshots. It does not with the ones on South Mountain.
>

In many cases, multipath can be reduced by reducing power. I took a station I once owned from 10 kw into the antenna to 250 watts and improved reception dramatically in a very rugged market. The market was anywhere from 2400 meters AMSL to 3000 meters AMSL, and the transmitter was at about 4,000 meters AMSL.
 
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