STOP IBOC ALLIANCE HAS SIGNED UP OVER 100 MEMBERS SO FAR

[Savage]

The Stop-IBOC Alliance, launched through a new website in mid-October, has over 100 registrants to date, a total accumulated in only about two weeks of the website's existence. About 15 of the new members are DXers, hobbyists or other members of the general public, with the remainder comprised of broadcasters. Radio-industry registrants include not only small and medium market stations but group chief engineers, upper management and major-market 50kw operators.

Comments filed with the registrations indicate overwhelming concern over much-publicized negative aspects of IBOC-AM including adjacent channel interference, co-channel self-interference, reduced analog coverage, unacceptably poor digital coverage, poor analog bandwidth, listener and station complaints, and unavailability of receivers, among others.

One account of positive experience with IBOC-AM was received from an AM station with an adult-standards format. The station said it had not received any complaints from listeners or advertisers, but conceded that IBOC may not be appropriate or necessary for news and talk, the dominant format on AM radio today.

The Stop-IBOC Alliance was formed to provide support and technical advice for AM broadcasters, particularly those suffering from adjacent-channel HD interference, especially at night. The Alliance will provide free advice to stations wishing to file FCC complaints and will accumulate contact info for a possible class-action lawsuit should such a measure eventually be necessary.

Visit www.stopiboc.com for information or to register.

 

[Mike Walker]

WOW! And only 299, 999, 900 Americans to go. Pretty darned impressive!

 

[Savage]

Considering there are about 500 Americans who are actually aware of HD-AM radio, 100-plus registrants ARE pretty impressive! Since the site is primarily designed for broadcasters and it's only been up two weeks, I'll put that total in the 'W' column, thanks. (Especially since there are about 230 adopters of HD-AM with something like 75 operating at night, including all the major-group stations who had invested in iBiquity in the first place.)

New registrants this morning include one from Norway and the president of Ashly Audio, manufacturers of pro audio gear, who also happens to be former CE of a 50kw AM.

 

[clouseau]

Considering there are about 500 Americans who are actually aware of HD-AM radio, 100-plus registrants ARE pretty impressive! Since the site is primarily designed for broadcasters and it's only been up two weeks, I'll put that total in the 'W' column, thanks. (Especially since there are about 230 adopters of HD-AM with something like 75 operating at night, including all the major-group stations who had invested in iBiquity in the first place.)

New registrants this morning include one from Norway and the president of Ashly Audio, manufacturers of pro audio gear, who also happens to be former CE of a 50kw AM.

I'm sure you folks are looking to shine the best light on you effort as well you should. Perhaps instead of Mike's quip of number to go, it would be more accurately compared to "Number of RADIO STATIONS on the opposite side."

The cost to join the "Pro" group was over $20,000 (Very conservatively). The cost to join the "anti" group?..

And the number of RADIO STATIONS in the pro group? 1500+
People in the Anti Group? 100

While you are up 10,000% since the first signup, I think there is a ways to go.

You have undertaken a duanting task, no doubt.

On the flip, you have a much better price point.

Clouseau

 

[Savage]

Thanks, Inspector. I think the motivations of those buying and installing HD gear on the one hand and those signing up for the Anti-IBOC Alliance on the other, are sufficiently different to make comparisons not very revealing at least in terms of just stacking the numbers.

Many, if not most, of the stations installing HD-AM did so because their corporate owners directed them to do so. A large number of those companies have invested in iBiquity and so have a direct financial interest in getting the system adopted, rather than installing it solely on technical merit. On the other hand those opposing the system by registering for the Alliance are largely concerned about interference issues and the negative impact on existing station operations and analog listening patterns. I would argue that the consumers' interests align with the latter group far more closely.

At the end of the day, IBOC will stand or fall on technical merit (or lack thereof.) So valid indicators to watch would include the number of new HD-AM installs, whether stations are powering it down at night, and the number and quality of interference complaints filed on behalf of injured stations. As well as receiver sales, etc., etc.

 

[Savage]

I forgot, Inspector - your 1500+ station-count for HD installs reflects HD-FM, not HD-AM. AM installs, according to iBiquity and Barry McLarnon's data is approximately 235 AM-HD stations operating with around 75 of those on at night. 100 compares much more favorably with 235/75 than it does with 1500, but I still don't think just stacking up the numbers is very meaningful anyway.

Not to buttress your arguments or contradict you but I think your estimate on the cost of IBOC-AM installs is actually pretty low.

Barry keeps his data updated: http://topazdesigns.com/iboc/station-list.html

 

[clouseau]

I forgot, Inspector - your 1500+ station-count for HD installs reflects HD-FM, not HD-AM. AM installs, according to iBiquity and Barry McLarnon's data is approximately 235 AM-HD stations operating with around 75 of those on at night. 100 compares much more favorably with 235/75 than it does with 1500, but I still don't think just stacking up the numbers is very meaningful anyway.

True, but I believe your site is STOPIBOC.COM not STOPAMIBOC.COM
Your point is well taken, though.

Not to buttress your arguments or contradict you but I think your estimate on the cost of IBOC-AM installs is actually pretty low.

Very much so. I used a very low number to avoid the "They didin't pay $100,000 to join the "Pro" group" thing.

Barry keeps his data updated: http://topazdesigns.com/iboc/station-list.html

Clouseau

 

[rbrucecarter5]

WOW! And only 299, 999, 900 Americans to go. Pretty darned impressive!

If 85 of the members are station owners / station engineers, then that is 85 out of 10,000 stations signed up in just a few weeks, or approaching 1%. Now THAT statistic is the one that matters - stations revolting against this stuff. If that rate of membership continues or accelerates, the stop IBOC movement will become a major force.

Consumers are voting with their pocketbooks - against HD radio. Compare HD radio sales this holiday season to sales of the new iTouch, or sales of wireless internet enabled laptops if you want to know where consumers ARE voting with their pocketbooks. Those are also numbers that should concern the HD radio advocates. Interesting that sales of the Sangean HDT-1X started going up only AFTER it was written up favorably by a group of FM DX'ers. Which sort of implies to me that more folks are buying it for its DX capabilities than its HD capabilities.

 

[JohnnyElectron]

rbrucecarter has a point - IF they make these new IBOC radios better: with an adjustable wide (switched) AM bandwidth, with stereo, noise reduction, etc...and the FM side with dual bandwidth and great sensitivity, they will benefit radio in general, as there is finally a nice radio/tuner available again, that just happens to have HD radio as a side benefit to both bands!

 

[LinoNYC]

If 85 of the members are station owners / station engineers, then that is 85 out of 10,000 stations signed up in just a few weeks, or approaching 1%. Now THAT statistic is the one that matters - stations revolting against this stuff. If that rate of membership continues or accelerates, the stop IBOC movement will become a major force.

Any independant verification of that convienient (100) number.

These boards, and the others Mr Savage has haunted with this campaign are populated by both indusry and hobbiests. Is there anything to prevent multiple sign-ups by an single individual. Probably not.

As for engineer's opposition, you and I both know how far that goes if corporate says "do it".

Consumers are voting with their pocketbooks - against HD radio. Compare HD radio sales this holiday season to sales of the new iTouch, or sales of wireless internet enabled laptops if you want to know where consumers ARE voting with their pocketbooks.

Do you really want to go with this comparison? IF so, you might as well add all single-purpose radio sales and get the full, grim picture as to where radio now stands in the entertainment universe. Most of the popular "hip" devices do not even have radio (am-fm) capablilty. Even Arbitron's PPM has shown dramatic declines in listening.

People no-longer buy "radios" they buy devices that happen to have radios.

Interesting that sales of the Sangean HDT-1X started going up only AFTER it was written up favorably by a group of FM DX'ers. Which sort of implies to me that more folks are buying it for its DX capabilities than its HD capabilities.

"DX ers" already have good receivers to persue their hobby. They are also collectors and will often buy any new and "revolutionary" design.

If nothing else, the demands of iboc will have been a welcome push against the downward spiral in receiver quality we've seen in recent years.

Lino

 

[Savage]

I don't know what you mean by an "independant" verification. Did Deloitte & Touche audit the sign-up forms? No. When the individuals register, they enter their name, position, station callsign and contact info. There are no multiple entries. And from information included in the "comments" field I can assure everyone that these are individuals and not one or two guys registering over and over. I gather this is what you are insinuating by suggesting that 100 is a "convienient" number.

And, as I stated before, 86 of the 100 are broadcast professionals, mostly station owners and operators, not DXers. In any case DXers are not subhuman. They have done much to promote AM radio and are organized and intelligent enthusiasts. The radio industry would do well to embrace them as allies rather than, as some have suggested, dismissing them as hopeless geeks impeding HD radio.

We are all aware that management has told engineers "to just do it" (install HD radio against their better professional judgment) in many cases. I really don't think that's an issue that's persuasive on either side of the argument. One StopIBOC registrant was a group chief who says he personally blocked HD installation on four AM stations by disabusing management of the notion that "we'll get FM quality and coverage on AM," reportedly a typical HD sales pitch to engineering-ignorant owners. So I think that's significant.

 

[davideduardo]

If 85 of the members are station owners / station engineers, then that is 85 out of 10,000 stations signed up in just a few weeks, or approaching 1%. Now THAT statistic is the one that matters - stations revolting against this stuff. If that rate of membership continues or accelerates, the stop IBOC movement will become a major force.

Yeah, right. To start, there are now over 14,000 stations in the US, not including LPFM. 100, including hobbyists and staffers, probably means a dozen or less owners or persons with decision making power.

A real groundswell of interest, to be sure.

 

[Mike Walker]

JohnnyElectron writes "rbrucecarter has a point - IF they make these new IBOC radios better: with an adjustable wide (switched) AM bandwidth, with stereo, noise reduction, etc...and the FM side with dual bandwidth and great sensitivity, they will benefit radio in general, as there is finally a nice radio/tuner available again, that just happens to have HD radio as a side benefit to both bands!"

The radios already have variable bandwidth for AM (as well as FM). All that would be required is a bandwidth control to let US set bandwidth, rather than the firmware. Oh, and to let US freakin' choose analog-lock for the few, but annoying as hell signals that WON'T LOCK! THAT would be a great radio, whether used for analog OR digital listening, and quite a bargain at 200 bucks. You'd have to spend a thousand or more to find anything comparable, and then it would be in a high-end "communications receiver".

 

[Radioman100]

I don't know what you mean by an "independant" verification. Did Deloitte & Touche audit the sign-up forms? No. When the individuals register, they enter their name, position, station callsign and contact info. There are no multiple entries. And from information included in the "comments" field I can assure everyone that these are individuals and not one or two guys registering over and over. I gather this is what you are insinuating by suggesting that 100 is a "convienient" number.

And, as I stated before, 86 of the 100 are broadcast professionals, mostly station owners and operators, not DXers. In any case DXers are not subhuman. They have done much to promote AM radio and are organized and intelligent enthusiasts. The radio industry would do well to embrace them as allies rather than, as some have suggested, dismissing them as hopeless geeks impeding HD radio.

We are all aware that management has told engineers "to just do it" (install HD radio against their better professional judgment) in many cases. I really don't think that's an issue that's persuasive on either side of the argument. One StopIBOC registrant was a group chief who says he personally blocked HD installation on four AM stations by disabusing management of the notion that "we'll get FM quality and coverage on AM," reportedly a typical HD sales pitch to engineering-ignorant owners. So I think that's significant.

I can't think of too many engineers that didn't gleefully accept the new transmitters and antennas they got when implementing HD. In a lot of cases, they replaced problematic gear that was 20-30 years old. HD gave them an excuse to make a lot of repairs that needed to be made for years but had been put off because the bean counters had said no.

As for the 100 person figure at your website, how many of them are the nutjob from Olney, MD?

 

[Savage]

No engineer I've spoken with has "gleefully accepted" new transmission gear to accomodate HD (although I'm sure this has happened at some stations, most likely the ones owned by companies who have invested in iBiquity and HD. Who wouldn't welcome a new transmitter and antenna?)

The cases I've had first-person experience with have had to adapt HD to their existing facilities, many with varying results. I spoke at length with a midwest consultant, one who runs an ongoing institutional ad in RW, who was assigned to get HD to work with a Harris solid-state 50kw AM rig at a client's station. Suffice it to say the system didn't work; the management "with decision making power" responsible for that powerful decision can now gaze powerfully at the idle, useless HD exciter they bought and will pay royalties for. There was no discussion of replacing the transmitter. I have also heard several comments from engineers who are resentful because the high cost of HD installation and implementation has diverted capital from what they regard as more pressing needs. As an example, a major-market corporate 50kw nondirectional AM has reportedly spent almost $1 million trying to get HD to work with their unique antenna system, without success.

Seven new StopIBOC registrants over the past 48 hours...nope, none then or before from Olney, Maryland. It's gratifying to read the courteous, thoughtful, professional opinions which are offered on the site. We'll get permission to post some of these from the authors so you can check 'em out for yourselves.

 

[Tom Wells]

Ahhh, so easy to sign up. May we clip art/ and or make up bumperstickers?

Maybe you could sell a line of t-shirts and bumperstickers.

A series of funny anti-iBOC promos for stations would also be in order.

 

[KB1OKL]

I'm a ham and an Dxer, one of the few who have joined the site I guess. I am also all set with communications gear and do not consider IBOC receivers to be even in the same sphere as my communications receivers, hence don't think I'll be wasting the money to buy one. The stellar reviews I have read about Iboc receivers : have convinced me beyond a shadow of a doubt that it would be a waste of my time and money to buy one. I do think I'm in a rather unique position though as I do a lot of listening especially on the AM band and find the adjacent channel harmful interference to be ruining the bands, it distorts the audio and weakens the signal and from what I've read it is a real feat to be able lock an IBOC AM signal in Boston from NY for any length of time which any crystal radio can receive and clearly with no sweat, doesn't sound like a technological advance to me. Actually I think that guy from Olney, MD along with a few others have done a great job of alerting otherwise unsuspecting media types to investigate Hybrid Digital rather than rely on iBiquities sugar coated lala land press releases which are all BS as anyone honest with himself already knows.

 

[LinoNYC]

what I've read it is a real feat to be able lock an IBOC AM signal in Boston from NY for any length of time which any crystal radio can receive and clearly with no sweat,

Boston to New York City =approx 200 miles. If you can get any digital broadcast, tv or radio to work at that distance, I like to hear about it. BTW; If your talking about Am, add a few more miles to that distance as most of the TX's are in New Jersey.

AM radio is trying to survive by offering better audio which has been it's handicap for decades. IBOC may be grasping at straws but if it fails to help there is nothing else on the horizon, just more religion and other hucksters.

Lino

 

[Tom Wells]

what I've read it is a real feat to be able lock an IBOC AM signal in Boston from NY for any length of time which any crystal radio can receive and clearly with no sweat,

Boston to New York City =approx 200 miles. If you can get any digital broadcast, tv or radio to work at that distance, I like to hear about it. BTW; If your talking about Am, add a few more miles to that distance as most of the TX's are in New Jersey.

AM radio is trying to survive by offering better audio which has been it's handicap for decades. IBOC may be grasping at straws but if it fails to help there is nothing else on the horizon, just more religion and other hucksters.

Lino

It's NOT better audio. There's no more room to put more data in than there is. There's only a different way of trying to get the data there.
It's a differently-poor sort of audio, without clicks, hiss and static, but so what, it has less resolution and it sounds garbled and clumpy.

I accept 200 miles as a normal day 50kw range for good reception in daytime. If you would be suprised at digital doing this, are you
accepting this reduced usefulness willingly? I USE 300 to 250 mile reception of Chicago stations often while traveling.

May I invite you to listen to this most recent example of high-fidelity AM. There is no reason for AM to sound bad.
I DO agree there needs to be a solution for NYC and other dense steel areas. But HD on AM won't do it, and is ruining it for those who use AM.

http://thomasjwells.podOmatic.com/entry/2007-11-17T22_54_40-08_00

 

[KB1OKL]

what I've read it is a real feat to be able lock an IBOC AM signal in Boston from NY for any length of time which any crystal radio can receive and clearly with no sweat,

Boston to New York City =approx 200 miles. If you can get any digital broadcast, tv or radio to work at that distance, I like to hear about it. BTW; If your talking about Am, add a few more miles to that distance as most of theTX's are in New Jersey.

AM radio is trying to survive by offering better audio which has been it's handicap for decades. IBOC may be grasping at straws but if it fails to help there is nothing else on the horizon, just more religion and other hucksters.

Lino

You missed my point, technology that is close to ONE HUNDRED years old can outperform IBOC receivers.
If AM radio has been handicapped by bad audio for years as you say, then WHY doesn't it offer better audio? 99.9% of the receivers in existence are analog, IBOC AM sounds terrible on analog receivers and probably on IBOC receivers as well, how can you say AM IBOC offers better audio, especially when the frequency response has been lowered by IBOC. Again, if analog AM has been handicapped by bad audio for decades then why haven't the manufacturers been been made aware of the problem and asked to make wideband AM receivers, after all they made the IBOC receivers which are going over like a lead balloon. The krappy receivers are the problem not the AM analog mode which is capable of very good audio which as I am sure you are are aware of.