I'm trying to use DRS2006 automation for an online radio project. The stream hosts I've spoken with have told me they require RDS data for the "now playing" display, which DRS does not do. I'm being told there is no way to use the DRS metadata. I've never done this before but it sure seems to me like there must be a way to read the DRS text file when it updates and use it to generate RDS data to send to the host. Does anyone have any ideas? I know the simple answer is to not use DRS. Believe me, the only thing that keeps DRS and me joined at the hip is the database...with over 7000 entries!
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streaming metadata
- Thread starter Scott1
- Start date
My knowledge of OTA radio is almost zero, but I thought RDS was an FM thing and has precious little to do with internet streaming. Most players (iTunes, Winamp etc) read metadata which DRS2006, SAM Broadcaster etc all support.
If you're looking to run an internet-only stream, and the stream hosts you're talking to are asking for RDS data, keep looking for stream hosts. There are dozens (those at http://radiotoolbox.com/hosts for example) that should support your DRS2006 setup.
If you're looking to run an internet-only stream, and the stream hosts you're talking to are asking for RDS data, keep looking for stream hosts. There are dozens (those at http://radiotoolbox.com/hosts for example) that should support your DRS2006 setup.
Note that if you are using DRS2006 2.x.x it does not pass 'album' to your streaming host in its tags. DRS2006 3.x.x does, but it is in beta and is not yet complete.
Wayne Greene
radiowayne.com
Wayne Greene
radiowayne.com
Thanks for the help guys. Shopping for other stream hosts is probably the best idea at this point. We'd like to run 32kb AAC+, which the DRS encoder won't do. For that reason, and the fact that there wil be some live shows, we also need a standalone encoder. That may complicate matters as far as the metadata is concerned. I assume we'd have to run the DRS encoder just to generate the now playing text file with artist and title. Not sure how we'd get an outboard encoder to read that file. so that's another bridge we'd have to cross. Boy if I didn't already have over 7000 entries in the DRS 2.2 database I'd move to something better in a heartbeat!
Most (if not all) streaming providers require the minimum data of artist / song title / album title (and perhaps track length) as part of DMCA compliance. All that info is factored in to compute royalty payments owed.
When I started my stream many years ago the radio automation system I used didn't output the album tag that was required. One of my station listeners actually wrote some code to make my old system output compatible metadata until I upgraded to automation that did this properly (StationPlaylist Pro).
I would bet that if a stream host does not require this data they are probably flirting with legal action, especially since things are now getting tougher regarding internet radio streaming. I would pick not only a provider that complies with DMCA regulations but I would also use automation and encoding software compatible with sending the DMCA-required metadata (which, incidentally, is not RDS)
When I started my stream many years ago the radio automation system I used didn't output the album tag that was required. One of my station listeners actually wrote some code to make my old system output compatible metadata until I upgraded to automation that did this properly (StationPlaylist Pro).
I would bet that if a stream host does not require this data they are probably flirting with legal action, especially since things are now getting tougher regarding internet radio streaming. I would pick not only a provider that complies with DMCA regulations but I would also use automation and encoding software compatible with sending the DMCA-required metadata (which, incidentally, is not RDS)
Thanks Bill for clearing a few things up! I was unaware you had to report the album you used to source the song! I use quite a few 45s as source material because the single versions are available nowhere else. I suppose in those cases I have to lie about the CD source! When building the DRS2006 database I've used the "album" field to indicate stereo or mono mix, so I guess at the very least I'll have to go through end enter album data, even though for most of the songs I don't remember what CD I used.
I spoke with a rep at B.E. today and he says he had a customer who bought a "TRE" from them to get the metadata from DRS to their stream host. Haven't had a chance yet to get in touch with them and see how it worked.
I spoke with a rep at B.E. today and he says he had a customer who bought a "TRE" from them to get the metadata from DRS to their stream host. Haven't had a chance yet to get in touch with them and see how it worked.
Scott1 said:
The stream I ran was a deep-oldies format and much of my material was vinyl sourced. At the time I was using Live365 as a host and they said using the designation "Single" for the album indicator was acceptable, especially since my vinyl was the source. I would think this would be acceptable to other providers for computing DMCA royalties as well.
I'm not familiar with DRS2006, but you should make sure that either the built-inb music scheduler (if equipped) or any external music scheduler used also complies with DMCA as far as artist protection and repeat rules. I know when I upgraded my automation system I was able to get very granular and build rules that were comprehensive, such as using "Paul McCartney" as a reference it would also equate "Wings" and "Paul McCartney & Wings" as a common artist. This not only gave me very consistent DMCA compliance it also made the format tighter since it lessened the holes where artists could inadvertently appear in the playlist when they shouldn't.
Depending on how familiar you are with doing the whole internet radio thing you may want to opt for a stream provider that calculates and pays the royalties on your behalf. I think Live365 and LoudCity are among those that currently offer streaming plans that include this. It's not cheap, but cheaper than hiring a lawyer if you get pinched for a non-payment violation.
Well Bill, I've just read the wiki about the DMCA on Live365. Most depressing. I did not know any of that. Never dreamed there'd be a rule against doing a "triple play" if you wanted to. And bad luck that I sourced my entire Beatles inventory from the 2009 remasters! I can't believe even a fraction of the online stations are doing it legitimately with the outrageous cost and regulation. To be honest, if this new project was using my money (thank goodness it isn't!) I'd drop the whole thing today and go back to my Part-15-on-mild-steroids...
That's the very reason I gave up streaming after 7+ years. There's no way somebody without deep pockets can successfully grow a streaming audience and remain within the legal realm of DMCA. Once you start adding advertising into the mix the rates change (if I recall correctly) for the worst. After the station became a hemorrhaging cost center to my wallet I decided to throw in the towel. I have good numbers but very little listener feedback or participation. So, except for warning a couple of people who had been very loyal station supporters, I snapped off the stream and made the web site go dark one Sunday afternoon. Sadly, nobody cared enough to say anything, which made me think the entire effort was in vain.
Good luck with your venture. Hopefully those in charge of your project will realize just how much this is going to cost them and plan accordingly.
Good luck with your venture. Hopefully those in charge of your project will realize just how much this is going to cost them and plan accordingly.
I'd modify that to "Most (if not all)streaming providers that pay royalties for you require....Bill DeFelice said:
Right now that includes only Live365, Loudcaster and Loudcity. The rest merely provide streaming servers. The legalities and royalties are up to you.
stuckinthe50s said:
I think it would be better said that the operator of the stream is required to transmit the minimal metadata mentioned previous, as I believe the data transmission is a DMCA requirement, regardless of of the stream provider used.
Actually The Rule states That you must encode the metadata UNLESS it causes an unnecessary burden on the station.
Meaning that if it is too difficult, you don't have too, but I'd imagine you would have to ID the songs somehow.
Theres a good program out there called Update Title, thats what I use to send metadata from Zara Radio.
http://utils.magic-radio.net/
Meaning that if it is too difficult, you don't have too, but I'd imagine you would have to ID the songs somehow.
Theres a good program out there called Update Title, thats what I use to send metadata from Zara Radio.
http://utils.magic-radio.net/
Yes. I probably could have worded that better. You have to stream the metadata even though the stream hosting service doesn't specifically say so. Most do have a clause in their TOS that says that what you stream has to be legal. But they're not going to be checking your stream.Bill DeFelice said:
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