Strongest licensed facility in the U.S.

[BRNout]

So the two most powerful FM stations in the country are both in Grand Rapids, Michigan?
And 3 of the top 6 are in the state of Michigan? I wonder why? Why did they initially think that
would be necessary? I have lived in Michigan and in most areas the ground is rather swampy,
leading to really great ground connectivity. I had much better luck with daytime DXing on both
AM and FM there than anyplace else I've been. I would think 320kW would be reserved for
places like Huntsville, Alabama where the ground conductivity is lousy.

You're thinking of AM groundwave Freddy. FM is mainly about line of sight, ground conductivity has nothing to do with it. If you have a transmitter sited atop a very tall tower (or a tall mountain or a very high building), it's signal will travel a long way; basically to the horizon (as seen from the tx location). Now, a lot of FMs are licensed to locations that are quite high above average terrain but most are not allotted that much wattage. The FCC figures that a tall tower + a certain number of watts = the same thing as a shorter tower + 50 kw. So you have stations in Chicago broadcasting from the top of Sears Tower, but with only 8 or 10 kw. They get out a long way, but aren't all that strong in most of their range (only right downtown do they overload smaller FM radios). There are even more extreme cases of stations broadcasting from very high mountains, but with something like 1000 watts. WZRT Rutland, VT comes to mind (Z 97.1). They have 1150 watts, but from almost 4,300' above sea level (2,600' above average terrain). Their signal can be heard far away (where the terrain cooperates) but is not strong anywhere. I used to get it in Concord, NH and, after a long 4 hour drive, could still hear it from W of Albany, NY. But, for most of that drive, it faded in and out far too much to listen to.

On the other hand, very powerful signals on shorter towers may not have quite as much range as an FM from a very high location; but they generally have a robust to overwhelming signal throughout most of that range. Basically, it goes away at the horizon - the shorter the stick, the closer in the horizon is. The grandfathered big signals often have both attributes, allowing them to go out a long way with a very usable signal that covers large areas (as opposed to a dx-grade signal which may go far, but isn't really listenable).

Why are so many in Michigan? I honestly have no idea. There's nothing inherently special about Michigan's geography that would make such stations more attractive to put there than anywhere else. Perhaps it's just a coincidence of history that you had stations vying to serve a wide area at just the right time. Also, many of Michigan's cities had a higher market ranking back in the 50s than they do now - and (in relative terms) it was also a more prosperous state. So, at that time, maybe you had more potential listeners for FM than in a less affluent area like, say, Alabama. Of course, nowadays, those circumstances have changed a great deal.

 

[ddsparxx]

I was thinking those two Grand Rapids stations were "grandfathered" at the time when they signed on at such huge power and I think it may have to do with their locations away from big cities. Even though they're at least 22 miles from Grand Rapids, I wonder what's it like to live 2 or 3 miles near the WBCT tower? .

 

[schmave]

Anyone wowed at WNCI's 175K wouldn't be if they came to this market. Surprisingly its signal does not outclass or distance everyone else's as much as you might think. The Houston FMs that go 100KWs in Missouri City put WNCI to shame.

- WNCI's antenna is only 171m (about 550') high. The extreme antenna height of the Houston stations really does make a big difference!

- The additional coverage "superpower" stations receive as a result of their extra power is not protected from interference.

WNCI is a Class B station. If it weren't grandfathered with the additional power, they would be limited to about 38,500 watts at their 171m antenna height. Class B stations are protected from interference to the distance at which they're predicted to deliver 60dBu of signal. At 38,500 watts, WNCI's signal would be protected from interference to a distance of 52km.

The additional power means their 60dBu signal is predicted to go 66km. However, that additional 14km of coverage is not protected from interference.

(FWIW, the 60dBu signal of KVYB, the most powerful U.S. station, is 104km.)

Absolutely. I think the Missouri City sticks are about 2,000 feet (the exact height is somewhere in the 1,900 range but can't remember the number). I don't know that WNCI gets walked on too much on its outer fringes, though 97.7 from Lima and Oxford start to infringe once you get closer to those cities, and the 97.9 from Detroit (like all other Detroit stations that are co-channel with Columbus) walks all over WNCI in northern Ohio. Even locally though, 92.3, 93.3, 94.7, 96.3 and 97.1 — the FMs with comparable signals but far less power than WNCI — all sound equally good 60-70 miles out.

 

[FreddyE1977]

So the two most powerful FM stations in the country are both in Grand Rapids, Michigan?
And 3 of the top 6 are in the state of Michigan? I wonder why? Why did they initially think that
would be necessary? I have lived in Michigan and in most areas the ground is rather swampy,
leading to really great ground connectivity. I had much better luck with daytime DXing on both
AM and FM there than anyplace else I've been. I would think 320kW would be reserved for
places like Huntsville, Alabama where the ground conductivity is lousy.

You're thinking of AM groundwave Freddy. FM is mainly about line of sight, ground conductivity has nothing to do with it. If you have a transmitter sited atop a very tall tower (or a tall mountain or a very high building), it's signal will travel a long way; basically to the horizon (as seen from the tx location). Now, a lot of FMs are licensed to locations that are quite high above average terrain but most are not allotted that much wattage. The FCC figures that a tall tower + a certain number of watts = the same thing as a shorter tower + 50 kw. So you have stations in Chicago broadcasting from the top of Sears Tower, but with only 8 or 10 kw. They get out a long way, but aren't all that strong in most of their range (only right downtown do they overload smaller FM radios). There are even more extreme cases of stations broadcasting from very high mountains, but with something like 1000 watts. WZRT Rutland, VT comes to mind (Z 97.1). They have 1150 watts, but from almost 4,300' above sea level (2,600' above average terrain). Their signal can be heard far away (where the terrain cooperates) but is not strong anywhere. I used to get it in Concord, NH and, after a long 4 hour drive, could still hear it from W of Albany, NY. But, for most of that drive, it faded in and out far too much to listen to.

On the other hand, very powerful signals on shorter towers may not have quite as much range as an FM from a very high location; but they generally have a robust to overwhelming signal throughout most of that range. Basically, it goes away at the horizon - the shorter the stick, the closer in the horizon is. The grandfathered big signals often have both attributes, allowing them to go out a long way with a very usable signal that covers large areas (as opposed to a dx-grade signal which may go far, but isn't really listenable).

Why are so many in Michigan? I honestly have no idea. There's nothing inherently special about Michigan's geography that would make such stations more attractive to put there than anywhere else. Perhaps it's just a coincidence of history that you had stations vying to serve a wide area at just the right time. Also, many of Michigan's cities had a higher market ranking back in the 50s than they do now - and (in relative terms) it was also a more prosperous state. So, at that time, maybe you had more potential listeners for FM than in a less affluent area like, say, Alabama. Of course, nowadays, those circumstances have changed a great deal.

Interesting. I was always under the impression that you were completing your circuit through the ground, regardless of frequency or transmission mode.
It seemed to me that my reception of AM, FM and TV in Michigan was better than in other places I had been.

You raise an interesting point though that in Michigan this could be market related. Michigan has a number of mid-sized cities (30,000 to 100,000 population) that are fairly evenly distributed across the Lower Peninsula. No one of those places would make a decent sized ratings point by itself so stations tend to try and lump them together. I used to live in the mythical city of Baycitysaginawmidlandflint, for example (you had to have a very nimble tongue on those station breaks!) Drive a bit to our west and you entered the land of Jacksonlansingbattlecreek. Or Grandrapidskalamazoohollandbentonharbor. Big wattage + big footprint = more medium-sized cities that you could try to claim were in your service area.

However I was not able to receive either of those Grand Rapids mega-blowtorches while living in the Flint-Saginaw area.

 

[BobOnTheJob]

So the two most powerful FM stations in the country are both in Grand Rapids, Michigan?
And 3 of the top 6 are in the state of Michigan? I wonder why? Why did they initially think that
would be necessary? I have lived in Michigan and in most areas the ground is rather swampy,
leading to really great ground connectivity. I had much better luck with daytime DXing on both
AM and FM there than anyplace else I've been. I would think 320kW would be reserved for
places like Huntsville, Alabama where the ground conductivity is lousy.

You're thinking of AM groundwave Freddy. FM is mainly about line of sight, ground conductivity has nothing to do with it. If you have a transmitter sited atop a very tall tower (or a tall mountain or a very high building), it's signal will travel a long way; basically to the horizon (as seen from the tx location). Now, a lot of FMs are licensed to locations that are quite high above average terrain but most are not allotted that much wattage. The FCC figures that a tall tower + a certain number of watts = the same thing as a shorter tower + 50 kw. So you have stations in Chicago broadcasting from the top of Sears Tower, but with only 8 or 10 kw. They get out a long way, but aren't all that strong in most of their range (only right downtown do they overload smaller FM radios). There are even more extreme cases of stations broadcasting from very high mountains, but with something like 1000 watts. WZRT Rutland, VT comes to mind (Z 97.1). They have 1150 watts, but from almost 4,300' above sea level (2,600' above average terrain). Their signal can be heard far away (where the terrain cooperates) but is not strong anywhere. I used to get it in Concord, NH and, after a long 4 hour drive, could still hear it from W of Albany, NY. But, for most of that drive, it faded in and out far too much to listen to.

On the other hand, very powerful signals on shorter towers may not have quite as much range as an FM from a very high location; but they generally have a robust to overwhelming signal throughout most of that range. Basically, it goes away at the horizon - the shorter the stick, the closer in the horizon is. The grandfathered big signals often have both attributes, allowing them to go out a long way with a very usable signal that covers large areas (as opposed to a dx-grade signal which may go far, but isn't really listenable).

Why are so many in Michigan? I honestly have no idea. There's nothing inherently special about Michigan's geography that would make such stations more attractive to put there than anywhere else. Perhaps it's just a coincidence of history that you had stations vying to serve a wide area at just the right time. Also, many of Michigan's cities had a higher market ranking back in the 50s than they do now - and (in relative terms) it was also a more prosperous state. So, at that time, maybe you had more potential listeners for FM than in a less affluent area like, say, Alabama. Of course, nowadays, those circumstances have changed a great deal.

Interesting. I was always under the impression that you were completing your circuit through the ground, regardless of frequency or transmission mode.
It seemed to me that my reception of AM, FM and TV in Michigan was better than in other places I had been.

You raise an interesting point though that in Michigan this could be market related. Michigan has a number of mid-sized cities (30,000 to 100,000 population) that are fairly evenly distributed across the Lower Peninsula. No one of those places would make a decent sized ratings point by itself so stations tend to try and lump them together. I used to live in the mythical city of Baycitysaginawmidlandflint, for example (you had to have a very nimble tongue on those station breaks!) Drive a bit to our west and you entered the land of Jacksonlansingbattlecreek. Or Grandrapidskalamazoohollandbentonharbor. Big wattage + big footprint = more medium-sized cities that you could try to claim were in your service area.

However I was not able to receive either of those Grand Rapids mega-blowtorches while living in the Flint-Saginaw area.

In 1970, when WFCJ in Miamisburg,OH signed off at 11PM or midnight, Grand Rapids on 93.7 was a regular in Cincinnati with an outdoor 9 element FM yagi & a Heath AJ-15 tuner. 260 miles of flat land was no match for that signal. It's still there in northern Indiana on a good car radio at 115 miles.

 

[BRNout]

In 1970, when WFCJ in Miamisburg,OH signed off at 11PM or midnight, Grand Rapids on 93.7 was a regular in Cincinnati with an outdoor 9 element FM yagi & a Heath AJ-15 tuner. 260 miles of flat land was no match for that signal. It's still there in northern Indiana on a good car radio at 115 miles.

From my home NW of Chicago, I almost always get a signal from WBCT - sometimes rather well. Where I live, I'm 130 miles from them and have first adjacent WLIT Chicago to deal with at 93.9. Yet, there they are on any selective radio. Any other FM from Michigan requires a tropo event to show up in my area (and they often do), but WBCT comes in even without the help (albeit with a fringe signal). When there's any ducting, they actually come in strong enough to give WLIT a run for their money!

I noticed that WBCT can be heard in downtown Milwaukee too. Very impressive signal.