Study proves listeners want hits, not deep cuts

[stevensonair]

What I don't get is the hostility towards the niche-fillers.

If you can fill it, pay the bills and enjoy yourself, why are their so many people who claim to love radio willing to take every opportunity to take a hit at people who do it differently?

CHR, mainstream format. Play the hits, right?

Independently owned CHR - tops the books for over 2 decades. Clear Channel is in the market and can't beat them. They do many things "wrong." They don't need to contest, but they do, out of their own budget. They stop the music for serious severe weather coverage. They play deeper golds and more currents. There are songs played on that station that aren't "hits" when they start them. A lot of detractors and competitors bash the music, the talent, the imaging. And yet. #1 every book.

There's room in this business for rule benders and breakers. Don't make people fear taking chances by intimidating every one you don't agree with.

 

[Whiplash]

When I posted the original story, it was to add something to the board for debate. It was not intended to start personal shots, radio mantra's and chest thumping. But the thread has gotten off track several times heading towards politics, name calling, and various other directions. I posted the same article on several different cities.

Corporate radio as its been called did not invent music research. It was here a long time before they took over thousands of stations. Like Marty, I was a part of these. And no matter how hard we sometimes tried to test songs, just to test them, in hopes that maybe they could become part of a playlist. They never tested well. Not then, and rarely now.

Innovation? I've certainly have done my share. Some worked, and others failed. Remember, learn from our mistakes? When I got into ownership, almost 15 years ago, I started with LPFM. Using a Christian Hits network, we became THE top billing station LPFM station in the country.

But anytime I've ever strayed away what I know that works, these formats became nothing more than a narrow niche and actually nothing more than a hobby station.

Now I have 6 stations (commercial and non coms), with a 7th FM on the way. I stick with what works, using research, and safe lists. And I'm hardly corporate radio. No I do this to drive ratings and revenue.

Do I have a hobby station? Yes I do. A beach and island station at www.flaglerbeachradio.com, where I live. Will it ever have ratings or lots of revenue. No! But I know, understand and accept that.

So comparing corporate radio to music research is not the argument here. If you don't care about ratings and revenue, then keep doing what your doing. That's great!

One of the most innovative stations I've ever heard is also one of the most basic. 98.9 WMMO in Orlando, FL. Started 30 years ago by Cary Paul, here in Cincy. That station has not only survived, its still innovative, 30 years later. If you want to be different, yet still drive ratings and revenue on a non com etc. This is the station to aspire too. You can't play what you want, but you will do well.

 

[88.9 Miracle]

Listeners will want something different if you create something different. It's been a struggle at ClassX because of our signals. After 7 years, more signals and yet more new signals coming, we have made something out of nothing. We are growing because we do something different. I've always felt you could take 40 deep cuts, play them as if they were charted hits, repeat them over and over for weeks and your listeners will begin to know them from repeated plays. It's all in the rotation and formula. That's all I've done with ClassX. Found the music by some of the great AOR artists that were big back in the day and start playing their NEW music and then find other NEW artists with the same traditional rock sound. An old idea made new again. It's something different that brings passion from the listeners.

The fact is we don't play many deep cuts at all. Most are proven hits that not many stations play anymore and we've combined them with new songs in our heavy category. It's taken a lot of work, years of research and frankly no Corporate stations are willing to take the risk to break new formats and take a brand of music and MAKE IT MAINSTREAM, by simply playing it.

That's all we are doing. People love traditional rock, they just forget it because they are not hearing anything new. This country abandoned AOR. But we have reintroduced it. Mockers and non-believers can say what they want. But we are taking a fresh approach and we are growing, we are in the black and suddenly it is becoming financially rewarding. That's without a paid staff, a group of volunteers that believe in us and what we stand for.

If more owners would take this approach like they used to, there would be excitement in listening to the radio again for all of those that are unhappy with it as it is now. Despite what all of the lazy programmers on this board say. It's much easier to play 20 songs over and over and collect checks than it is to program to those that are passionate about music and demand variety. No one wants to sacrifice for the people to give them something different. It's always about ratings and money and never about PEOPLE!

My station proves that you can still make money, not have debt and provide people with programming that no one else was willing to give them.

I've got blinders on. I don't listen to nay-sayers. I stay the course with what I started. I go with instinct and guts. That's what I believe. So take your research and dump it in the river. Means nothing to me because in my career, I don't find it to be true.

Dare to be different. Take chances. It's rewarding in the end.

 

[partymarty]

Mr Nuts--Not sure why you are so angry at commercial radio-- heaven knows everyone who has worked around it has been stomped on (many of us many times). You get up---dust off and move on or give up and move out--

Kudos to you-- I'm happy for anyone that can carve a successful niche--- My point is that your chances at success are dramatically improved by using targeting and applying scientific method to best serve your audience. There certainly are rare programmers that have great instincts and can connect emotionally with their core (think early EBN).. hope you are one--

I still think that underwriters that pay good cash dollars to support hobby stations are fools -- but there is a fool born every second!

If you deliver results for your clients and have a large satisfied listener base, then you are not a hobby station and have beaten the odds. I applaud you and your efforts.

RockNuts on!

 

[Whiplash]

You can throw the research in the river. Heck you should have called the station The River. :

 

[88.9 Miracle]

You can throw the research in the river.  Heck you should have called the station The River. :

Marty just listen to the radio dial and you can easily hear why I'm upset with what Corporate radio has done to it.  Nuff said. 

 

[88.9 Miracle]

You can throw the research in the river. Heck you should have called the station The River. :

Lash what are those 7 station call letters of these that you own. How do you go from none to 7 in 8 months? Must be nice. Would love to check them out.

 

[Whiplash]

Send me an email and I'll share!

 

[nmoore6676]

I think that is safe to say that the average listener in his car or with a portable radio is likely to prefer known songs. So if you are a current hits station in whatever genre you are then you will have a limited playlist. If you are an oldies or classic whatever, again the top hits in short rotation.

But does that exclude specialty shows to introduce new songs or bring out the dusty wax? Not in drive time but on weekends or evenings and overnight why not? Or maybe mix some different stuff even in peak listening hours. Then there are those HD extra channels, maybe there with some crossover programming in the off peak hours.

Also I would like more showcasing of local talent, either in studio or live venues. But for that you would need a firm and committed sponsor because live is not cheap.

 

[cardradio]

Or you could do what I do. I plug my Ipod in to the aux of my radio and listen to deep cuts. Because I'm sick and tired of the well tested songs. Iuse radio to make a living -. Not to listen to.

I think that is safe to say that the average listener in his car or with a portable radio is likely to prefer known songs. So if you are a current hits station in whatever genre you are then you will have a limited playlist. If you are an oldies or classic whatever, again the top hits in short rotation.

But does that exclude specialty shows to introduce new songs or bring out the dusty wax? Not in drive time but on weekends or evenings and overnight why not? Or maybe mix some different stuff even in peak listening hours. Then there are those HD extra channels, maybe there with some crossover programming in the off peak hours.

Also I would like more showcasing of local talent, either in studio or live venues. But for that you would need a firm and committed sponsor because live is not cheap.

 

[nmoore6676]

Or you could do what I do. I plug my Ipod in to the aux of my radio and listen to deep cuts. Because I'm sick and tired of the well tested songs. Iuse radio to make a living -. Not to listen to.

I think that is safe to say that the average listener in his car or with a portable radio is likely to prefer known songs. So if you are a current hits station in whatever genre you are then you will have a limited playlist. If you are an oldies or classic whatever, again the top hits in short rotation.

But does that exclude specialty shows to introduce new songs or bring out the dusty wax? Not in drive time but on weekends or evenings and overnight why not? Or maybe mix some different stuff even in peak listening hours. Then there are those HD extra channels, maybe there with some crossover programming in the off peak hours.

Also I would like more showcasing of local talent, either in studio or live venues. But for that you would need a firm and committed sponsor because live is not cheap.

I do what you do, except I have my library on a hard drive. However as I have moved a couple of times cross country and shed equipment as I went as well as albums and tapes I am rebuilding and have forgotten a lot of what I once had and enjoyed. So I listen to a couple of stations online for special programs such as the great Chubby Howard for classic country and Bill Cain on WIBG-FM out of New Jersey for rock because of what they play and I use it as a road map to get back what I have forgotten.

I seek out other similar type shows and we did have one here locally until the gentleman, Billy Cole, passed a few years back. He was never replaced. So I for one would appreciate a station and any station that does deep cuts. Especially ones with the song tags to help me locate the ones I am looking for.

 

[cardradio]

Isn't it sad that we resort to listing to devises other than broadcast radio. A business we love but can't tolerate because of these studies..Programmers with nothing except corporate control over what they can play. Thank you, Steve Jobs for giving us the freedom from these test. I hope radio can survive until I am able to retire.

 

[partymarty]

Mr Nuts. I took your advice today for the 50 minute drive up to Butler Co Regional for the airshow (btw kudos to the rc folks. What a neat show). I heard a 10 year old rerun of car talk. But still really funny. I heard all the commercial FMs in format... no tech errors.. playing the hits and talking about what an awesome weather day it was. Sunday midday on AM is a wasteland ...sad . And I heard your station with bad levels, out of phase imaging, and dead air.

I do applaud what you are trying to do. But for the 10 mins you had me today it sounded rough.,Every station has hiccups.. I'm sure I just caught a bad time, but that was a real life time slice as a listener would hear it. I thought the song selection was great.. Solid A... The rest had issues. Not getting into art. Strictly tech.

Not trying to tear down.. Trying to help all of us deliver great radio.. The competition is IP, not other RFs

I will try to listen more when I can get in range. I honestly do wish you well.

 

[TheBigA]

Isn't it sad that we resort to listing to devises other than broadcast radio.

Historically, the minute people had alternatives to broadcast radio, they took them. That meant buying phonographs, tape players, Walkmen, and then more recently mp3 players. And through all of that, broadcast radio has survived.

The reason: People don't choose one instead of another, but in addition to the other.

Studies are good. Anytime you find out what users want, it's good.

 

[NDXUFan]

I have listened to Marty for many years, since the late 80's. Marty is a very successful broadcaster and I have really enjoyed listening to him on the radio. Marty was the chief programmer on WGRR when it was a GRRReat station. As a listener, Marty did make me very, very happy. I loved listening to him and the hits. I will take Marty's years of experience, any day, over a poster on a radio board.

Marty, you're just another suit. Go away. We like to say on the air that we hang people like you. You don't have to have huge ratings and tons of money to please an audience. It's not all about ratings, it's not all about money. It's about serving the audience that you program to and making them happy. Make people happy and the money will come. If your theories are so wonderful and so perfect, how is it that you suits change your freekin' formats every (what seems like) 3 months? Because your theories work? Idiots!

The fact is, people are just dumb. Ask your study group what they like and don't like and then go back to your phones and emails and answer all of the complaints. INNOVATE or die. It's that simple. Your wonderful suit theories are killing radio and killing the dial. Now go back to your 20 songs and twirl your thumbs. Doesn't anyone care anymore. My how this world has changed.

 

[cardradio]

Some studies are great. I studied all 10,000 songs before I downloaded them into my my IPod. AM radio has survived since 1922. Now you can't give one away. One goes dark every week in this country.

Isn't it sad that we resort to listing to devises other than broadcast radio.

Historically, the minute people had alternatives to broadcast radio, they took them. That meant buying phonographs, tape players, Walkmen, and then more recently mp3 players. And through all of that, broadcast radio has survived.

The reason: People don't choose one instead of another, but in addition to the other.

Studies are good. Anytime you find out what users want, it's good.

 

[ToddyO]

Fine - gimme the Middletown AM. Give me a year and let's see where it is. ;D

 

[TheBigA]

Fine - gimme the Middletown AM. Give me a year and let's see where it is. ;D

Probably in Middletown.

 

[microbob]

I have listened to Marty for many years, since the late 80's. Marty is a very successful broadcaster and I have really enjoyed listening to him on the radio. Marty was the chief programmer on WGRR when it was a GRRReat station. As a listener, Marty did make me very, very happy. I loved listening to him and the hits. I will take Marty's years of experience, any day, over a poster on a radio board.

I agree, but input is good no matter who posts on the board. Passionate listener opinions who take the time to post here should not be ignored. I know I have learned a lot about broadcasting and it's inner workings through the years by reading this forum.

 

[88.9 Miracle]

I have listened to Marty for many years, since the late 80's. Marty is a very successful broadcaster and I have really enjoyed listening to him on the radio. Marty was the chief programmer on WGRR when it was a GRRReat station. As a listener, Marty did make me very, very happy. I loved listening to him and the hits. I will take Marty's years of experience, any day, over a poster on a radio board.

I agree, but input is good no matter who posts to the board. Passionate listener opinions who take the time to post here should not be ignored. I know I have learned a lot about broadcasting and it's inner workings through the years by reading this forum.

Most of us here are Radio junkies with no hope! It is a viral infection to which there is no cure. That's why we post here! I believe you can tell ages here as well. People like me and Card were listening to radio as youngsters in the 60's and we remember the diversity, the magic of radio, how interesting it was, mom and pop operations, competitive spirit, new unique formats, innovation, Old school. We are near tears the way consolidation has nearly ruined it, in our opinion (considering the way it used to be). You have to look back at those days. You really do, to help understand why the flock is leaving radio, one by one. The boomers are the ones that still embrace radio but they are leaving. The young adults don't embrace it like the boomers did because they have other (sometimes better) options. If I and others seem overly-passionate about our beliefs, you are right. We should be listened to instead of shot down. There are valid reasons we feel the way we do.