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Subchannels on WNYW and WWOR
- Thread starter Markxxx
- Start date
Well, they are co-owned, and somehow as a result of that they feel the need to simulcast each other's programming on each other's subchannel rather than placing something unique on each one, or even just scrapping the subchannel and using the full bandwidth for 5 and 9, respectively.
41 and 68 (also co-owned) do the same thing. What a waste. In the meantime, you should see some of the terrestrial DTV offerings in many European countries...even those with high cable/satellite penetration rates. Totally blows away anything offered here in terms of overall quantity and quality.
41 and 68 (also co-owned) do the same thing. What a waste. In the meantime, you should see some of the terrestrial DTV offerings in many European countries...even those with high cable/satellite penetration rates. Totally blows away anything offered here in terms of overall quantity and quality.
I was wondering if it was an antenna type thing? Do both WWOR and WNYW have their transmittes at the Empire State? I noticed in Chicago both WFLD (FOX) and Fox owned WPWR (MNTV) do not carry subchannels, nor in LA where FOX owns two stations. I was wondering if it might be due to the DTV signals. Living in Chicago I know that DTV has issues going through densely populated areas and buildings, and I thought maybe that was why they were on each other's subchannels
It's actually a relic of 9/11. WNYW-DT was one of the first DTV signals on the air in New York, and it was built from the start at Empire. (WCBS-DT was the other DTV there.) WWOR-DT didn't get on the air until sometime in mid-2001, and was initially operating at low power from WTC. If I'm remembering right, several of the NYC DTVs had just finally gotten full-power signals on the air from WTC in the weeks before 9/11, and WWOR-DT was among them.
In any case, right after 9/11, Fox put WWOR's programming on WNYW's 5.2 in order to have some sort of signal to feed to (the then relatively few) OTA DTV viewers and to some outlying cable headends, since it was clear that restoring any sort of WWOR signal, analog or digital, was going to take a while.
For whatever reason, Fox has kept WWOR on 5.2 ever since, even though the eventual replacement WWOR-DT signal was built at Empire, where it uses the DTV master antenna that went in around 2004. WNYW-DT, while also at Empire, does not use that antenna - it still has a separate antenna of its own elsewhere on the Empire mast - and so there have been times, during work on the Empire mast, when WNYW-DT is on and WWOR-DT is off, or vice versa. That may be why WNYW is also on 9.2; I'm not certain.
In any case, right after 9/11, Fox put WWOR's programming on WNYW's 5.2 in order to have some sort of signal to feed to (the then relatively few) OTA DTV viewers and to some outlying cable headends, since it was clear that restoring any sort of WWOR signal, analog or digital, was going to take a while.
For whatever reason, Fox has kept WWOR on 5.2 ever since, even though the eventual replacement WWOR-DT signal was built at Empire, where it uses the DTV master antenna that went in around 2004. WNYW-DT, while also at Empire, does not use that antenna - it still has a separate antenna of its own elsewhere on the Empire mast - and so there have been times, during work on the Empire mast, when WNYW-DT is on and WWOR-DT is off, or vice versa. That may be why WNYW is also on 9.2; I'm not certain.
The respective stations' Wikipedia articles, FWIW, note that each station's .1 digital feed is (apparently) HD, while the .2 feeds are each other's SD feeds.
As an occasional listener and viewer of NYC and Philly radio and TV, the signals from NY have been terrible since 9/11.
I used to be able to pick up #4 the best when everybody was at Empire. After the move to 1WTC, #7 became the best except for a multipath line down the center. After 9/11, there was little to no 2, 4, or 5. The digitals today are not even dependable from the Highlands on south.
The whole ota digital transition has been a ____ (fill in the blank) from the start. The origional shut down date was 12/31/2005. Ask anybody how long digital tv has been over the air and they will look at you strange and say a year or two. We have had it for over 10 years!
I mentioned NYC because I grew up with it. Family forces back to the NJ shore every once in a while. I've been able to keep up with it for the most part.
I have not been able to pick up the Philly digitals at all from Pt. Pleasant. I had acceptable and watchable rabbit ears from both markets with anologue. I have nothing on digital.
Because of the unique situation at Empire, I understand that it is a matter of accesibility and radiation and power requirements and spacing so it will take longer. But Philly did not have the 9/11 issues or the same stick vertical real estate availability problems since the Roxborough farm had multiple antennas - nor did my Florida stations.
There are only so many companies that climb antennas to make the changes necessary or the man power. When the Obama people assumed the reins, they extended the date (once again) so that the stations had to request a delay in the shut down costing them more in delays.
The tuners weren't even available for consumers until about 5 years ago. Some stations didn't even bother to spend the bring the digital channel to power for quite some time. I didn't even pick up WINK-DT until they signed off the analogue on Feb 17th. (Both my coupons expired before I was able to get a box with them)
With the amount of average person tv watching, one would have naturally thought that this would be big news, but with DirecTV, Dish, Cable, FiOS, and web, it just became a beaurocratic mess not many people were aware or cared.
The reason, that 5 and 9 are simulled, was because of 9/11, but it works for both stations because the transition is not completed. It makes more sense for them to continue that until they figure what else to program. I have found that the quality of the reception is not the same, though. As back up it works, but if one has a choice, then go with the origional channel. They don't even id the .2 channel on the main.
I figure this will be an ongoing thing for the next year because of the shakeout of co-channel and tropo-issue interference issues.
We may find that UHF is where everybody settles. (That's my guess)
OTA will be relogated to a secondary service until disaster strikes. Long live anologue radio!
Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!
I used to be able to pick up #4 the best when everybody was at Empire. After the move to 1WTC, #7 became the best except for a multipath line down the center. After 9/11, there was little to no 2, 4, or 5. The digitals today are not even dependable from the Highlands on south.
The whole ota digital transition has been a ____ (fill in the blank) from the start. The origional shut down date was 12/31/2005. Ask anybody how long digital tv has been over the air and they will look at you strange and say a year or two. We have had it for over 10 years!
I mentioned NYC because I grew up with it. Family forces back to the NJ shore every once in a while. I've been able to keep up with it for the most part.
I have not been able to pick up the Philly digitals at all from Pt. Pleasant. I had acceptable and watchable rabbit ears from both markets with anologue. I have nothing on digital.
Because of the unique situation at Empire, I understand that it is a matter of accesibility and radiation and power requirements and spacing so it will take longer. But Philly did not have the 9/11 issues or the same stick vertical real estate availability problems since the Roxborough farm had multiple antennas - nor did my Florida stations.
There are only so many companies that climb antennas to make the changes necessary or the man power. When the Obama people assumed the reins, they extended the date (once again) so that the stations had to request a delay in the shut down costing them more in delays.
The tuners weren't even available for consumers until about 5 years ago. Some stations didn't even bother to spend the bring the digital channel to power for quite some time. I didn't even pick up WINK-DT until they signed off the analogue on Feb 17th. (Both my coupons expired before I was able to get a box with them)
With the amount of average person tv watching, one would have naturally thought that this would be big news, but with DirecTV, Dish, Cable, FiOS, and web, it just became a beaurocratic mess not many people were aware or cared.
The reason, that 5 and 9 are simulled, was because of 9/11, but it works for both stations because the transition is not completed. It makes more sense for them to continue that until they figure what else to program. I have found that the quality of the reception is not the same, though. As back up it works, but if one has a choice, then go with the origional channel. They don't even id the .2 channel on the main.
I figure this will be an ongoing thing for the next year because of the shakeout of co-channel and tropo-issue interference issues.
We may find that UHF is where everybody settles. (That's my guess)
OTA will be relogated to a secondary service until disaster strikes. Long live anologue radio!
Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!
Re: WNYW, WWOR
It may have been signal strength. I was picking up 26's signal (ABC-7) and WBBH and WFTX. My antenna is the big Radio Shack that does a real nice job.
During the last several years, the signals and programming on subs changed. But WINK-DT never came in until this spring.
Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!
JayR said:
It may have been signal strength. I was picking up 26's signal (ABC-7) and WBBH and WFTX. My antenna is the big Radio Shack that does a real nice job.
During the last several years, the signals and programming on subs changed. But WINK-DT never came in until this spring.
Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!
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