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Summer book out! KJLH, KSSE and KKGO beat KRBV! Bottom drops out of MoVin!

Radioresearcher said:
DavidEduardo said:
42% of the market is Hispanic, and over 50% in 18-34. And of that group, 60% are Spanish dominant, so we have around 26 Spanish shares 12+ and 31 shares 18-34. It's a function of demographics.
David - you were nice enough to respond to that one. I think it was a racist comment that there's no need for.

Some of those comments are not ill-intentioned, I think. Some are just coming from a lack of awarenss that market composition drives formats. It's probably better to give an explanation than to go in with pistols blazing, but there are moments I can not help myself.

Anecdote time. I was visiting a matress store in East LA in '72 or '73 with Howard Kalmenson, owner of KWKW. The owner of the store did not want to buy time on KW because he "did not want those people in my store." And his store was in the middle of East LA, on what is now Cesar Chavez Blvd... can you figure that one out? In any case, Howard lay down on a matress and said he was not moving till the guy would let him present the station. In the end, he actually bought, and the station ran want ads for Spanish speaking sales staffers so the guy could do more business... some things turn out nice even when the cover on the book is ugly.
 
The thing about Clear Channel is they have a lot of really good people working for them. Those people have created some excellent radio and tried creative and new ideas.

Some of the best people in the business work for CC.

Consolidation happened, and the Mays family did their thing. But regardless of how you feel about their original business plan, they have employees who work very hard to do a good job. You can't blame the Mays for doing what they wanted to do, that is creating tremendous wealth from the radio business. By that scorecard, they did very well for themselves and early shareholders.

Despite radio consolidation and new audio entertainment competiton, I encourage people to go out there and compete as individual owners. If you create compelling content, maintain ownership of it, find your audience and get paid! Or just run block programming. LOL
 
David and Greg - Thanks for both being level headed about what is currently happening in the market. Let's face it, no matter where you live radio stations must reflect their community. Also I want to note that there are many great radio professionals working in LA, but all ownership groups make mistakes. I'm a former Clear Channel employee that feels they are pros and constantly adjust. Same applies to CBS, Emmis and others.

I don't spend much time in LA, but when I do I listen for the leaders and it's easy to find them by just scanning the dial. Just this last weekend I was driving through and some stations stood out as being on target and there are some that don't.

As a an English language only listener, I'm noting these stations as being on target:

KIIS
KOST
KRTH
KFI
KTWV

I didn't have enough time to monitor KROQ, Jack, KHHT or KLSX.

I was disappointed about Movin, Go Country and to a certain extent KNX.

I understand the Movin concept, but Dees is out of place, the music mix was to me awkward and the talent sounded stiff. The version of this station in Seattle sounds better, you can hear it online.

You might as well call Go Country, brought to you by music row in Nashville. They are terrible in announcing the artists, they run artist interviews that aren't clearly reasoned of why they are running it and since I'm an OM of a cluster with a Country station. I can tell they are running way too many currents, their recurrents are weak and imaging not there.

KNX is a constant companion for me, but driving back through on Saturday night I heard some mistakes that I thought I wouldn't hear in a major market. They ran a story from CBS network about the I-5 closure with a network reporter followed by the Edward Kennedy hospital story and 3 minutes later hit Top of Hour net news and they ran the exact same stories back to back word for word. Once I hit Ventura I switched over to KCBS-AM and they were able to separate stories a bit better.
 
syvjeff said:
I understand the Movin concept, but Dees is out of place, the music mix was to me awkward and the talent sounded stiff. The version of this station in Seattle sounds better, you can hear it online.
I'm sure the Seattle version of Movin' targets that market much better than LA's version but, they are targeting two different audiences. In LA Movin has been having trouble finding interest from Hispanic females and has recently skewed the music in a more disco direction since KBIG refocused on Hot AC.
 
DavidEduardo said:
kentuckymedia said:
David, I really enjoy your posts quite a bit, they are very informative. I just dont understand why you have such a hard on for the Mays boys and their mega pain in radio's backside known as Clear Channel. You always are finding ways to pat them on the back and trash CBS and Emmis. Remember this, in 10 years when were all standing there asking ourselves what happened to this business that we all once loved....the answer is going to be Clear Channel and how they wanted to ruin everything good about the radio business.

I basically think the CCU folks know what they are doing, and when they make mistakes, they generally fix them. I don't think I am trashing CBS or Emmis, but discussing where they have problems is fair game... it's part of the monday Morning Quarterbacking that makes these boards fun.

I love Emmis, but not Movin. I worked for Emmis, and think the world of the people there. CBS under Hollander made some major mistakes; Dan Mason is one of the good guys and I think he will fix what is fixable.

Oh, okay...Im sorry. I used to work for Emmis as well, great company. Talk about people who care for their employees. I would say the only national companies that really do are Emmis, Entercom (depending on market), Connoisseur, Maverick, Brewer, South Central and Saga. Clear Channel, your honestly just a big number.

I agree, I think Movin LA was a flop. I feel if they let Burns program it and not just purchase the rights, there could have been a lot of better things happen. But do you really see Emmis sticking around much longer? If I were a betting man, which actually I am. Look for Emmis and Radio One make a big ole trad-a-roo (something we say in kentucky).

I bet, KPWR, KMVN get swapped off to Radio One in exchange for their properties in Detroit or Philadelphia
 
In looking at the business of radio, Emmis and Radio One are in a world of hurt as long as their values are based on Wall Street expectations. LA is a big fish for those two and if you look at it, when LA catches a cold, the stock holders are very angry. Both of those companies need to either fight to win, sell these prime signals or find a buyer to take them private. Much of their internal pressure is based on stock price. If they were private they could pull out of mistakes quietly and efficiently.

Radio is not sexy to the public traded market and with a credit crunch I'm getting flash backs to the early 90s when many ownership groups were begging for the telecom act of 1996 to kick in so they can sell to get out of debt.
 
kentuckymedia said:
I bet, KPWR, KMVN get swapped off to Radio One in exchange for their properties in Detroit or Philadelphia

Radio One's FMs in both Detroit and Philly combined are worth less than one Mt. Wilson B in LA.

The gross billin of all 6 for last year is less than half the gross billing of KPWR for the year.
 
You might as well call Go Country, brought to you by music row in Nashville.

Probably true, what worried Music Row when KZLA folded was the loss of a radio showcase for Los Angeles. Despite ratings, record sales in LA for country music are large.

I can tell they are running way too many currents, their recurrents are weak and imaging not there.

Maybe but they beat KZLA where you couldn't listen for more than an hour and not get bored by the repeats. I think they are still working on the imaging, but as a real fan of country music the imaging is not what I listen for. When KZLA was on I usually listened to out of town country stations on line and the ones that just played the music with out glitzy overproduced imaging were my favorites. I hardly use the net now, except for a classic country station that I like from Xenia (near Dayton) Ohio.
 
Up here in the small markets (100+) some of my Country friends laughed when the folks at Emmis said when they launched Movin that they couldn't justify continuing country with the $27 mil in billing on KZLA.

Personally as a country listener I prefer KFRG in the Inland Empire and KSON in San Diego.

I'm still not impressed with Go. They have a lot of work to do to sound like a format leader than the default winner.
 
Personally as a country listener I prefer KFRG in the Inland Empire and KSON in San Diego.I'll give KSON a listen on the net, but KFRG is so enamored of their pond themed names for the jocks to the point of being annoying. I think KKGO will work out the format and other issues as they "GO" along. They are not perfect but better than their predecessor. I enjoy having a station I can listen to when I'm out and away from my computer and they fill the bill.
 
I do think KKGO will get better; their morning show is far better than the hopelessly-out-of-place Peter Tilden was at KZLA, and Todd Baker and market veteran Paul Freeman are solid.

Baker is a scream in PM drive, and I haven't heard anybody in that timeslot as entertaining and downright hilarious since Ryan Seacrest & Lisa Foxx @ Star several years ago.

They do a very poor job of back-selling and/or front-selling the music they play, and especially because there are tons of gold tunes that they play now that KZLA couldn't touch due to corporate dictates, but I have acknowledge that Freeman and Whitney Allen are far better at doing so than the rest of the airstaff.

I'm also quite certain that KZLA's projected billings for 2006 were going to be under $20,000,000 if they'd stayed country through the end of the year, and not the $27,000,000 someone previously mentioned. Star & KBIG both billed over $30,000,000 last year, and KZLA was far behind them.
 
I do think KKGO will get better; their morning show is far better than the hopelessly-out-of-place Peter Tilden was at KZLA, and Todd Baker and market veteran Paul Freeman are solid.

Thanks Marv, you've got the idea. By the way, to syvjeff, I've given KSON a listen on streaming and they do have a more polished sound, but they've been doing it for years so they've had time to perfect the sound. My opinion of K-FROG hasn't changed, they should do more music, less lilly-pad humor. KSON has a slightly different music mix than KKGO, I heard more recently past music that has dropped off the "GO" playlist. They should do all right though as the station for country fans in LA.

I feel sorry for Rick Dees though for being on the Titanic, but I'm sure his contract will make him OK when the ship finally goes down.
 
Having worked the LA market and now Seattle I can tell you that MOVIN, as Alan Burns created it, will not work in LA. The move by Emmis to add disco gold and appeal to
the 35-54 Hispanic listener is better, but still weak. In Seattle, where Movin started, the station survives only because of the weakness of the Mainstream CHR in the market. That is being corrected and MOVin will be gone in Seattle within a year. The format did not work anywhere. What Emmis is doing makes sense, adapt and adjust. Country will not work in LA.
There are a number of reasons, but suffice it to say that a two share is about all it can ever do. KKGO is poor version of Country. KSON or the US Country out of San Diego are
much more polished and solid examples of what a real Country effort would sound like. Just drive south and listen or on the web.
 
Correct. However you must count rimshot Country stations into the equation in Orange County and of course the two in San Diego. The real number is probably a 1 to 1.5 if it is executed perfectly. Not much of a market hole which is why they have failed in the past. The larger opening in the LA market is in the AAA arena, but few are willing to go there.
 
However you must count rimshot Country stations into the equation in Orange County and of course the two in San Diego. The real number is probably a 1 to 1.5 if it is executed perfectly. Not much of a market hole which is why they have failed in the past. The larger opening in the LA market is in the AAA arena, but few are willing to go there.

Rimshots don't count in the SF Valley, the only station you can get is KKGO (or formerly KZLA). KSON might hit parts of Orange County along with KFRG. Country music recordings sell in LA and the artists come here to do concerts so they must sell tickets. I would probably listen to AAA if it gets a place I would enjoy a well executed oldies or music of your life type format. Of course I'm out of the desirable demo so I don't count which is what ticks me off. Everyone has money to spend and there is a market out there if you can find a way to get the sponsors to see it.

When all of the stations give you the the same pie, the slices get smaller. By providing various kinds of alternatives (more than apple and cherry) they will reach different audiences with different tastes. If they fail to offer a variety it will drive more people to satellite and the internet, killing the overall audience for terrestrial radio.
 
radioprofessor said:
Correct. However you must count rimshot Country stations into the equation in Orange County and of course the two in San Diego. The real number is probably a 1 to 1.5 if it is executed perfectly. Not much of a market hole which is why they have failed in the past. The larger opening in the LA market is in the AAA arena, but few are willing to go there.

Triple A got a 1.1 on a Mt. Wilson stick. They complained it was the signal. Said station is consistently No. 1 or No. 2 with Regional Mexican.

AAA might work on 103.1 - and that's about it.
 
Radioresearcher said:
Triple A got a 1.1 on a Mt. Wilson stick. They complained it was the signal. Said station is consistently No. 1 or No. 2 with Regional Mexican.

AAA might work on 103.1 - and that's about it.

It's time for the legal notice again:

"Warning. The Census General has determined that the LA metro is highly ethnic, composed of groups with a known intolerance to AAA, a.k.a. Americana. The 42% Hispanic population finds this programming mildly nauseating, as do the 8% of Blacks and 12% of Asians. The additonal 10% of unclassified first generation immigrants from Armenia, Russia, Persia and the Arab nations in general is subject to fits and convulsions brought on by said music. Since all these groups compose 75% of the metro population, the potential for AAA is significantly reduced and should only be attempted on a signal that is good for nothing else. Side effects include loss of revenue, low ratings and queaszy ownership"
 
"Warning. The Census General has determined that the LA metro is highly ethnic, composed of groups with a known intolerance to AAA, a.k.a. Americana

What if the lowest rated stations just turn their licenses in to the FCC and let the ratings for every remaining station go up. In the old days and less concentrated ownership stations found an audience and went out and sold it to the sponsors who wanted to reach that segment. Now with corporate absentee owners everyone wants to reach the majority and screw the minorities.

The reason that the FCC allocated so many frequencies to this area was because at some point someone went and applied, promising that their new station would somehow serve some segment that was to that date being under-served. Over time those owners sold and through the process that has led to the current scene those facilities ended up in the hands of the present conglomerates. The little Class A signals allocated to communities like Long Beach and San Fernando, for example, were meant to be local voices for those communities, not part of an area wide simulcast.

The carrot held out to the regulators was that multi station clustering would support the less popular minority formats by spreading the costs, and profits, over the group. Maybe that concept as practiced needs revisiting and rethinking. Not likely though as they now want to further relax the rules governing multiple ownership caps per market.
 
nmoore6676 said:
"Warning. The Census General has determined that the LA metro is highly ethnic, composed of groups with a known intolerance to AAA, a.k.a. Americana.

What if the lowest rated stations just turn their licenses in to the FCC and let the ratings for every remaining station go up. In the old days and less concentrated ownership stations found an audience and went out and sold it to the sponsors who wanted to reach that segment. Now with corporate absentee owners everyone wants to reach the majority and screw the minorities.

Radio formats are basically self regulating. There are formats capable of big shares, such as the 17 shares available in LA for regional Mexican, and in that sort of situation you will see 4 or 5 different stations competing with versions of the same thing. AC has perhaps 8 shares to 9 shares, and so we see overlapping AC stations, all variants of one single format with different age or lifestyle targets.

Some formats only can barely take one entrant... like CHR ( 4 share, but if split, due to being young, would cause both to fail) or smooth jazz (half of a 3 share is a 1.5.. not enough) or Spanish adult hits (3 share, but not enough for two). And some are below the level for a major signal... like country, AAA, hard rock (KNAC lost money for years), etc.

In markets like LA, most of the money is agency money... and it has very specific demographic profiles attached. Stations can not go for targets that advertisers will reject because the client of the agency has given other instructions.

Stations, more than ever, are designed to appeal to segments of the audience that advertisers want to reach. Thast's why there are no teen stations and no 55+ stations... no advertiser interest. And good signals that don't get a 2 share or so on FM change format, or muddle along like KKGO will, since it has an "interesting" local owner with nobody to insist on a good fiscal performance.

The reason that the FCC allocated so many frequencies to this area was because at some point someone went and applied, promising that their new station would somehow serve some segment that was to that date being under-served.

Almost all the allocations in the LA area were given before FM had achieved any kind of economic viability. There have only been a couple of new channels, class A's all, in the last 40 years. Whatever was promised back then is irrelevant as the LA area is so different in ethnic composition and lifestyle.

And... really important... the FCC does and did not approve music formats. The only made sure that the station complied technically and would do some kind of service to the community it covered.

AMs are not allocated... if it fits, and someone wants it, the FCC gives it. Nearly all LA assignments (not allocations) today are direct descendants of stations already on thee air before 1950... As most good AMs were assigned int he 30's and 40's, this explains why the best are in cities that were big and important then, while ones like Phoenix, Miami, Orlando, Atlanta and San Diego and such that grew later have so few if any "big" AMs.... it has nothing to do with service promises.

Over time those owners sold and through the process that has led to the current scene those facilities ended up in the hands of the present conglomerates. The little Class A signals allocated to communities like Long Beach and San Fernando, for example, were meant to be local voices for those communities, not part of an area wide simulcast.

The San Fernado Valley is no longer a separate community with interests separate from the LA metro. Neither is Long Beach. Nor is any place in Orange County. And, remeber, even int he strictest days of ascertainment and programming content, stations were expected to serve the primary coverage area, not just the city of license. The only COL requirement was putting a certain signal level over it...

In the "bad old days" of individual owners, there was a lot more pressure to perform by most, as the owner only could have a few stations and if one did badly, the whole company was in jeopardy. That's why most of us had no health plan, no career track, no 401-k and why everyone wanted to be the #1 Top 40 station, not offer a niche format. For example, Cleveland, in the early 60's, had three formats only: CHR, MOR and R&B. Diversity in formats has grown as radio was deregulated.

The carrot held out to the regulators was that multi station clustering would support the less popular minority formats by spreading the costs, and profits, over the group. Maybe that concept as practiced needs revisiting and rethinking. Not likely though as they now want to further relax the rules governing multiple ownership caps per market.

Dereg has very much enhanced the variety of formats. Just look at 1980 format choices and today's. Just in one segment, Spanish language, LA had two different Spanish language formats in 1980 and today there are 10.
 
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