Summer Trend Phase I: CBS FM

[OldiesCat]

But now Fresh is down and LTW continues to drop at an alarming rate. Remember, WNEW did an AC format against WLTW from Sept 2003-March 2004 and Lite didn't budge (as Mix 102.7). Alot of the fallout can be attributed to the poor choice of changes at 106.7 at a time when the station needed to stand on its merits as the heritage AC in the market, the one that has outlasted WYNY, Mix 105, previous attempts at 102.7 etc.

I just feel blowing up you image with what has worked for 23 years when you are #1 in NY and #1 in billing in the US at a time when you are getting a competitor is a mistake. LTW played into their hand and pushed the panic button. The station has been a bed of instability for almost two years now. You can't blame the first year, because they were still LITE FM with a 7.1 as late as Fall 06. But Fresh, AND the changes in music and imaging at WLTW (from Lite FM to New York's 106.7) virtually sent the station in a different direction and has sent listeners elsewhere. Some, not all, have gone to Fresh (which has, as I said, cooled its heels).

Stations go up, stations go down. WLTW didn't push any panic button; they likely made the move dropping "Lite" (which certainly does have a bit of a negative/wimpy connotation with listeners in the research studies I've seen) not as a short term fix but for the long term. The music isn't dramatically different. I also notice radio people get all itchy when there isn't a bunch of over-produced imaging and jingles but with PPM coming, get over it. You don't need to hit people in the head with a bat (big-hype imaging) to make them like you.

 

[KevinFodor]

Oldies Cat is right on CBS-FM.

The new format only represented 2 weeks of this 3 phase rolling trend...way too early to judge anything...though, I understood some extraps showed some gains. Still there's far too little information from this type of extrapolating to draw any conclusions at all.

The first real impact of the new format will be the book itself. Phase 2 may give some indication of where they're going...

Any conclusion one way or the other at this point is about as accurate as throwing darts.

 

[mikerock]

In the last month of JACK including those first 12 days the station format was tweaked more heavily to rock. The CBS-FM gains could be attributable to this or just the hype surrounding the switch.

We really will not know until the 2nd book. My prediction is it will be slightly below JACK numbers in the next book and will trend down slightly from there. However my guess is from the publicity, revenue will be up and will not trend down for CBS until things are really a mess by next spring.

 

[yocco]

A mess by next spring? Don't think so. CBS-FM is back and better than ever. Jack has just about worn out his welcome everywhere.

 

[mikerock]

A mess by next spring? Don't think so. CBS-FM is back and better than ever. Jack has just about worn out his welcome everywhere.

Spoken like a true fan boy.

 

[wgliradio]

Stations go up, stations go down. WLTW didn't push any panic button; they likely made the move dropping "Lite" (which certainly does have a bit of a negative/wimpy connotation with listeners in the research studies I've seen) not as a short term fix but for the long term. The music isn't dramatically different. I also notice radio people get all itchy when there isn't a bunch of over-produced imaging and jingles but with PPM coming, get over it. You don't need to hit people in the head with a bat (big-hype imaging) to make them like you.

Their mistake was doing this as a direct competitor had just launched a month earlier (the NY's 106.7 started sometime in late January or early Feb). With another option on the FM dial, the last thing Lite needed to do was to rebrand the entire thing. I could possibly see this if Lite was barely hanging in, but we're talking about #1 in NY and #1 billing in the US. You just don't screw with that. You stick with what got you there, reinforce what you are and let the new kid "try me".

 

[lalumia]

I remember WABC screwing up the same way when KTU first appeared;
they soiled themselves when they saw KTU's initial ratings(DISCO 92)in the late 70s,and went overboard trying to out-disco the station, which turned into a big mistake in more ways than one...

 

[Australian Whine]

A mess by next spring? Don't think so. CBS-FM is back and better than ever. Jack has just about worn out his welcome everywhere.

Spoken like a true fan boy.

Spoken like a true fan boy.

 

[BACKnUSSR]

A mess by next spring? Don't think so. CBS-FM is back and better than ever. Jack has just about worn out his welcome everywhere.

Spoken like a true fan boy.

Well if the station has enough "true fan boy"s...then it should do well!!

Actually, CBS-FM should easily outperform JACK (in fact, it always has even at the point where it deteriorated to the point where the decision was made to flip it). Maybe they won't fare better than they had back in '05....but that alone would qualify as a win.

As for JACK, is it uptrending ANYWHERE anymore? Even LA seems to have cooled.
Maybe it was the new "Jammin' Oldies"-type fad after all........

 

[Boss Radio]

The issue isn't CBS-FM vs. Jack. Jack is a format du jour that's basically come and gone. Now they're back to CBS-FM and confronting the same demo problems they had two years ago when they dumped the format.

If the replacement format had been successful, CBS-FM never would have come back.

Whatever they wind up with in 24-54, it's going to be a whole lot more of 54 than 25. And when TSL grows, it will be with the 50+ Andreas and the other hardcores who leave the dial there around the clock in the hope that Don K. Reed will return.

It's still going to be a very tough sell to the agencies.

 

[Jay F]

A mess by next spring? Don't think so. CBS-FM is back and better than ever. Jack has just about worn out his welcome everywhere.

Spoken like a true fan boy.

.
As for JACK, is it uptrending ANYWHERE anymore? Even LA seems to have cooled.
Maybe it was the new "Jammin' Oldies"-type fad after all........

Yes, there are places where JACK is trending up. Some markets where JACK is still healthy include

(Spring 07, 25-54 ranking)

Dallas #7
Seattle #6
San Diego #4
Sacramento #6
Kansas City #4
Indianapolis #4
Nashville #3

 

[OldiesCat]

Yes, there are places where JACK is trending up. Some markets where JACK is still healthy include

(Spring 07, 25-54 ranking)

Dallas #7
Seattle #6
San Diego #4
Sacramento #6
Kansas City #4
Indianapolis #4
Nashville #3

Quite true, Jay. And, when you add in other Variety Hits stations in places like Auston (Bob), St Louie (Arch), Phoenix (Peak), Louisville (Louie), Des Moines (Bus), Columbia SC (Steve), there's a healty number of these stations doing pretty well. In fact, there are other Jack stations who've done decently at times, like Minneapolis, San Antonio, Fresno and a few others (these tend to be more up & down but they're competitive).

 

[mikerock]

I remember WABC screwing up the same way when KTU first appeared;
they soiled themselves when they saw KTU's initial ratings(DISCO 92)in the late 70s,and went overboard trying to out-disco the station, which turned into a big mistake in more ways than one...

The new CBS-FM sounds a lot like Music radio 77 after disco first appeared. If they wanted to emulate Music radio 77 it would have been better to do it prior to the disco years. The station sounds all too much like the Blink and it is going to crash and burn. They would have been better off keeping the JACK format in the long term and just eliminating all the non-rock cuts. The active rock or triple-A market is wide open in NY since there is not a single NYC station covering that genre or demographic.

 

[OldiesCat]

The active rock or triple-A market is wide open in NY since there is not a single NYC station covering that genre or demographic.

There's a good reason for that (see: latest ratings trends on those two formats).

 

[davideduardo]

The active rock or triple-A market is wide open in NY since there is not a single NYC station covering that genre or demographic.

There's a good reason for that (see: latest ratings trends on those two formats).

That must be the same reason as why it's gotton so hard to hear a good polka on New York radio of late....

 

[disney fanatic]

As you look in the Arbitrends, CBS-FM went up, thanks to the demise of "Jack" for pulling the plug of this awful format. The station will now playing the 60's, 70's and 80's, just like the same concept that WBPM in Hudson Valley had with its "Classic Hits 92.9" playing the wrong music with a few songs, album cuts and many others that are not hits according to the Spring HV book that they took a nose dive in the first ratings period due to the lack audio problems and songs that WBPM plays took the wrong direction by playing too much 70's and 80's rock on a heavy rotation.

As for CBS-FM in New York City, it's much different than the former "Cool 92.9" like they did since 2004 until the end of January 2007 when the format flipped to "Classic Hits 92.9" in the beginning of February. A lot of these songs are oldies from the former "Cool 92.9" and the current "Cruisin' 93.5" with the lack of 80's songs that are in the Hudson Valley area.

I wish CBS-Fm should get credit for playing the greatest hits of the 60's, 70's and now the 80's with a few pre-1964 stuff that CBS-FM usually plays from time to time. I guess Hudson Valley needs another oldies station than CBS-FM. As for WBPM, you should not give credit for this format for playing music by the Cars, Huey Lewis and the News, Pink Floyd, Aerosmith, the Beastie Boys, Queen, Meatloaf and many others that are not hits as part of the current format as "Classic Hits 92.9" as I mentioned on the HV board. I hope maybe they will find a place for this format.

By the way, WKNY in Kingston, NY had Warren Lawrence on Saturdays from 12:00 PM until 7:00 PM playing the oldies from the 50's, 60's and 70's, just like CBS-FM does now except a mix bag of 80's songs in between.

If you look at other HV stations such as "Lite-FM" on 92.1 and 98.5 (with WLTW dropped its brand), they play a few 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's and current stuff except for WCZX's "Mix 97.7" does the same thing.

WZCR up in Hudson, NY as "Cruisin' 93.5" does play the oldies from the 50's, 60's and 70's with much of pre-64 stuff thrown in. That station couldn't get a signal, because of a lack of oldies being dumped on 92.9 since late January.

I'm just going to say, kudos to CBS-FM for returning to 101.1. As Ziggy (from CBS-FM and WKLI's "Magic 100.9" in Albany) would say at the top of the hour...

"Come back to CBS-FM and let's get on with the show!"

 

[Boss Radio]

What are you talking about?

 

[mikerock]

disney fan posting cbs-fm spam.

"As you look in the Arbitrends,CBS-FM went up",

There is no way to tell if that was due to CBS-FM playing more Rock in those first part of that book. JACK had already been pulling a 2.2 earlier this year. We really will not know what the numbers are attributable to the new format without the publicity until the next book.

"thanks to the demise of "Jack" for pulling the plug of this awful format"

Your personal opinion. As posted here the JACK format is doing well in many cities and it sounds like this as more to due with grudge because JACK replaced your precious Oldies format.

 

[Indielover]

"Your personal opinion. As posted here the JACK format is doing well in many cities and it sounds like this as more to due with grudge because JACK replaced your precious Oldies format."

Very true..same with all of the old cbs/fm geezers...hope they enjoy it while it lasts..next time it won't be coming back.

 

[disney fanatic]

Your personal opinion. As posted here the JACK format is doing well in many cities and it sounds like this as more to due with grudge because JACK replaced your precious Oldies format.

If you look in other cities, KCBS-FM in Los Angeles did really well, while in Chicago, WJMK's "Jack" continues to do poorly like CBS-FM's former "Jack" did in New York City over the last 2 years.

The station did poorly since day one back in June of 2005. According to the Winter book, "Jack" did well in the top 10, but in the Spring book, it was out of the top 10. Will have to wait for the Summer Arbitrons to come out, it's the first half of the Arbitrends, will have to wait and see if it does well.