I looked at some of the radio listings in San Francisco in the 1940's and 1950's showed there was a KNBC 680 am and a KNBC 99.7 fm before it moved to LA in 1960 to LA for Channel 4. Also with KCBS that live on at 740 am as a result of a bid for CBS to get KQW and a dispute with KSFO. In the case of CBS it was compunded with the fact that KNX 1070 am in LA was seen as a heritage call letters for the market and that KCBS was put on 98.9 fm, 97.3fm in the 1970's before KCBS was permitted to have the call letters in 1983-1984 to Channel 2 in LA and 93.1 FM Jack in LA. Was KABC ever supposed to arrive in San Francisco at some point until market research revealed that LA is a bigger market sometime in the 1950's and ABC put the KABC Call letters for KECA 7 and KECA 790. If KABC really did exist in the 1930's and 1940's what city was it registerd to?
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Surprised that there was no KABC 810 am San Francisco?
- Thread starter recto101
- Start date
recto101 said:
680 and 99.7 lost the KNBC call letters in the early 60s when NBC moved them to Channel 4 in Los Angeles. NBC has never had an O&O radio station there.KFI was the NBC affiliate, owned by Earl C. Anthony at that time. In the 60s, the FCC did not allow stations to split call letters between cities, so KNBC had to become KNBR. But by the time CBS moved the KCBS calls to LA, the FCC no longer had any problem with that, so CBS was able to keep the calls on KCBS-AM here.
97.3 really didn't benefit from the KCBS-FM call letters by that point in any case, because they had changed formats around that time to become KRQR.
And speaking of Earl C. Anthony, 790 AM and Channel 7 were also owned by Earl C. Anthony - hence E-C-A, and became KABC when the ABC network took ownership.
Simple answers, in chronological order:
CBS bought KNX in 1936. The call letters were well-known (across most of America, to nighttime listeners) and it made no sense to change them.
NBC never owned a radio station in Los Angeles, despite numerous attempts to buy KFI. In 1946, the network thought it would be good "branding" to change KPO to KNBC.
When CBS bought KQW in 1949, they had to consider what NBC had done with its AM station's call letters. They went with KCBS.
KGO, on the other hand, had a similar situation to KNX when the nascent American Broadcasting Company took control in 1944. Nobody knew what an "ABC" was, but KGO had a major reputation well beyond the Bay Area.
In 1954, though, the network was looking for branding opportunities, Los Angeles was now by far the larger of the two cities, making the L.A. stations the flagships on the West Coast, and the stations were named after the previous owner (Earle C. Anthony-KECA), so it made great sense to use the KABC calls there. That, of course, started the tide, with NBC in 1962 and CBS in 1978 re-naming their L.A. TV stations (93.1 in L.A. got the KCBS-FM calls in 1991).
There is no indication online that the KABC, KCBS or KNBC calls were ever in use prior to the above.
By the way, it wasn't until 1946 that the FCC approved using the same call letters for jointly-owned radio and tv facilities.
The fascinating story is in New York, where CBS bought a radio station from the Atlantic Broadcasting Company in 1928. The call letters were WABC. CBS kept those calls until 1946, when the station became WCBS (to avoid confusion with and promotion for the new ABC network).
Similarly, NBC owned WEAF from 1926 and didn't change its call letters to WNBC until 1946.
ABC held on to the WJZ calls from 1944 until switching to WABC in 1953. It appears to be the way the network was thinking at the time, and makes it very unlikely there was ever any thought given to putting the KABC calls in San Francisco.
CBS bought KNX in 1936. The call letters were well-known (across most of America, to nighttime listeners) and it made no sense to change them.
NBC never owned a radio station in Los Angeles, despite numerous attempts to buy KFI. In 1946, the network thought it would be good "branding" to change KPO to KNBC.
When CBS bought KQW in 1949, they had to consider what NBC had done with its AM station's call letters. They went with KCBS.
KGO, on the other hand, had a similar situation to KNX when the nascent American Broadcasting Company took control in 1944. Nobody knew what an "ABC" was, but KGO had a major reputation well beyond the Bay Area.
In 1954, though, the network was looking for branding opportunities, Los Angeles was now by far the larger of the two cities, making the L.A. stations the flagships on the West Coast, and the stations were named after the previous owner (Earle C. Anthony-KECA), so it made great sense to use the KABC calls there. That, of course, started the tide, with NBC in 1962 and CBS in 1978 re-naming their L.A. TV stations (93.1 in L.A. got the KCBS-FM calls in 1991).
There is no indication online that the KABC, KCBS or KNBC calls were ever in use prior to the above.
By the way, it wasn't until 1946 that the FCC approved using the same call letters for jointly-owned radio and tv facilities.
The fascinating story is in New York, where CBS bought a radio station from the Atlantic Broadcasting Company in 1928. The call letters were WABC. CBS kept those calls until 1946, when the station became WCBS (to avoid confusion with and promotion for the new ABC network).
Similarly, NBC owned WEAF from 1926 and didn't change its call letters to WNBC until 1946.
ABC held on to the WJZ calls from 1944 until switching to WABC in 1953. It appears to be the way the network was thinking at the time, and makes it very unlikely there was ever any thought given to putting the KABC calls in San Francisco.
In the words of Gary Radnich, that's good knowledge.
I have only one tiny factual correction to make to Michael's excellent history, and that's the date of the KNXT/KCBS-TV call change, which was April 2, 1984.
Until the post-WWII era, there didn't seem to be any perceived value to callsigns matching the name of the network. "WCBS" was in use by a station owned by the Community Broadcasting Service of Springfield, Illinois; "WNBC" was used by a station in New Britain, Connecticut. It would be interesting to see the paperwork that flew back and forth between CBS and NBC as they arranged for the coordinated call change that simultaneously flipped WABC to WCBS and WEAF to WNBC in New York in 1946.
I suspect (but have never seen proof) that it was the change of the Blue Network to ABC that got the ball rolling - it was no big deal for CBS to have a flagship station called "WABC" as long as "ABC" was simply the start of the alphabet, but when "ABC" became a competing network, it must have become far too confusing. And as long as NBC was changing heritage calls in New York, it made sense for them to do the same at their West Coast hub in San Francisco - and for CBS to follow suit upon acquiring KQW a few years later. (One wonders - well, I wonder, anyway - whether another reason the KPO-to-KNBC change made sense was to avoid confusion with KGO, which ceased to be a sister station to KPO when the Blue Network/ABC was spun off.)
One other angle here: NBC apparently had second thoughts about the "WNBC" branding a few years after introducing it in 1946. In 1954, NBC changed its New York stations from WNBC/WNBC-FM/WNBT(TV) to WRCA-AM/FM/TV. I believe that's also when KNBH(TV) in Hollywood became KRCA(TV). NBC/RCA was never completely consistent about the RCA branding; while it used the opportunity to flip its Washington TV station from WNBW(TV) to WRC-TV and soon thereafter put the "WRCV" calls on radio and TV in Philadelphia, it never went with 'RC-" calls in Chicago, instead flipping WNBQ(TV) to WMAQ-TV.
By 1960, NBC/RCA evidently was having second thoughts about the RCA branding, since it then flipped the WRCA stations in New York to WNBC-AM/FM/TV and KRCA in LA to KNBC...and *that* was what finally precipitated the change of KNBC to KNBR in San Francisco.
Until the post-WWII era, there didn't seem to be any perceived value to callsigns matching the name of the network. "WCBS" was in use by a station owned by the Community Broadcasting Service of Springfield, Illinois; "WNBC" was used by a station in New Britain, Connecticut. It would be interesting to see the paperwork that flew back and forth between CBS and NBC as they arranged for the coordinated call change that simultaneously flipped WABC to WCBS and WEAF to WNBC in New York in 1946.
I suspect (but have never seen proof) that it was the change of the Blue Network to ABC that got the ball rolling - it was no big deal for CBS to have a flagship station called "WABC" as long as "ABC" was simply the start of the alphabet, but when "ABC" became a competing network, it must have become far too confusing. And as long as NBC was changing heritage calls in New York, it made sense for them to do the same at their West Coast hub in San Francisco - and for CBS to follow suit upon acquiring KQW a few years later. (One wonders - well, I wonder, anyway - whether another reason the KPO-to-KNBC change made sense was to avoid confusion with KGO, which ceased to be a sister station to KPO when the Blue Network/ABC was spun off.)
One other angle here: NBC apparently had second thoughts about the "WNBC" branding a few years after introducing it in 1946. In 1954, NBC changed its New York stations from WNBC/WNBC-FM/WNBT(TV) to WRCA-AM/FM/TV. I believe that's also when KNBH(TV) in Hollywood became KRCA(TV). NBC/RCA was never completely consistent about the RCA branding; while it used the opportunity to flip its Washington TV station from WNBW(TV) to WRC-TV and soon thereafter put the "WRCV" calls on radio and TV in Philadelphia, it never went with 'RC-" calls in Chicago, instead flipping WNBQ(TV) to WMAQ-TV.
By 1960, NBC/RCA evidently was having second thoughts about the RCA branding, since it then flipped the WRCA stations in New York to WNBC-AM/FM/TV and KRCA in LA to KNBC...and *that* was what finally precipitated the change of KNBC to KNBR in San Francisco.
Thanks for the corrections, Scott! Sorry for any confusion.
Lkeller said:
One correction Lew. Earl C. Anthony was the owner of KFI channel 9, which he sold to Don Lee who changed the calls to KHJ. Channel 9 is of course KCAL now and owned by CBS. To my knowledge E.C.A. never owned channel 7.
Bryan Simmons said:
True. 7 signed on in 1949 and ABC gave it the same calls as radio.
Lopaka said:
In the early days of radio, most call letters were sequentially assigned by the federal agency preceded the FCC. There's been a debate about this between radio nerds, but I've found some historical resources that indicate that new station owners could request specific call letters. The first example cited was the Iowa banker who requested (and was granted) W-H-O for his new station in 1924. Examples in the Bay Area seem to be KFRC (initials reminding one of San Francisco), and KTAB which was owned by Oakland's Third Avenue Baptist Church.
But most new station owners just took whatever calls were assigned to them - and in those days, probably didn't realize call letters had marketing potential.
Lkeller said:
It didn't take them long to realize, though. Think how many legacy calls that date back to AMs of the mid-twenties and earlier stood for company names or slogans. Chicago seems to have been the center of call letters that were initialisms of company names and slogans: WBBM stood for <something (beginning with B)> Battery Manufacturing (Co). WGN for World's Greatest Newspaper (Chicago Tribune), WLS for World's Largest Store (Sears Roebuck--or maybe it was Marshall Field). WGES for World's Greatest Engineering School (DeVrei Tech, I believe; if not please correct). And I think that is hardly a complete list--just for Chicago.
Since KQW was arguably America's first radio station--regardless of KDKA's claims--those calls were assigned by the Federal Radio Commission (predecessor of the FCC), but those weren't the station's first calls. Didn't Doc Herrell (or however he spelled it) originally use the call sign 1XE?
How about the 1980's and 1990's when Fox was an infant and when Barry Diller ran Fox. How come KTTV didn't become KFOX 11 and WNEW/WNYW didn't just become WFOX 5? Did Somebody own the KFOX and WFOX calls when Fox bought Metromedia? Also Fox was seen as a CW type network or Ion Network at that point until 1994 when Fox got the rights to the NFL. also KFOX ended up as a Classic Rock brand for KUFX 98.5 in San Jose.
recto101 said:
I remember that in the 60s, K-F-O-X were the call letters for an AM country station out of Long Beach. I'm not sure if the station was still in existence when News Corp bought KTTV and WNEW, but the call letters were likely already in use elsewhere.
KFOX-TV is currently assigned to a Fox affiliate in El Paso, owned by Cox, which also owns KTVU.
KPO, KQW and KRE were assigned by the FCC. KYA's first owner "reserved" the calls, but there's no indication of a meaning.
KGO, however, means something. The owner was General Electric, and the studio and transmitter was in Oakland. K-General-Oakland.
As for FOX, the world had changed enormously by the time FOX started buying stations. Branding KTTV "Fox 11" is just as useful as having the call letters. Possibly more so, since the calls are virtually never used by anyone, except in 3-point font at the bottom of the screen during legal
IDs.
KGO, however, means something. The owner was General Electric, and the studio and transmitter was in Oakland. K-General-Oakland.
As for FOX, the world had changed enormously by the time FOX started buying stations. Branding KTTV "Fox 11" is just as useful as having the call letters. Possibly more so, since the calls are virtually never used by anyone, except in 3-point font at the bottom of the screen during legal
IDs.
I noticed that KPBS went to San Diego for an SDSU or UCSD owned station instead of LA for KOCE or KCET.
WNET didn't become WPBS. I think WNET was heritage calls for National Education Television or NY Education Television. KCET was Southern California Education Television. and KOCE was Orange County California Education.
Who has the WPBS Calls when WNET became a PBS station?
WNET didn't become WPBS. I think WNET was heritage calls for National Education Television or NY Education Television. KCET was Southern California Education Television. and KOCE was Orange County California Education.
Who has the WPBS Calls when WNET became a PBS station?
recto101 said:
Y'know...there are places where you can look these things up.
San Diego was "KPBS" before there was a Public Broadcasting Service nationally. The station started as KEBS, if memory serves. WNET got its calls as the result of a merger between the local New York outlet, then-WNDT (New Directions in Television) and what remained of National Educational Television (NET) after PBS launched.
The whole idea behind PBS at the beginning was that it wasn't meant to be a network in the same way the commercial networks operated; the local stations were the program producers, each with their own identity, and "PBS" was just the service that linked them to share programming...hence little reason to have a "WPBS" or "KPBS" flagship. (Same deal with radio and NPR; the KNPR calls came into use in the seventies for Nevada Public Radio in Las Vegas, while WNPR ended up on a station in Norwich, Connecticut.)
The WPBS calls weren't used in public TV until the 1990s, when the local station in Watertown NY, WNPE, acquired the rights to use "WPBS-TV" from a radio station in Georgia that had been using the calls.
recto101 said:
Yup. He was a staff announcer and did play-by-play for Chicago Cubs games. In those days, Des Moines received the game info by wire, and the announcer (Reagan) had to re-create the games' action and excitement while reading the wire feed. No matter what you think of his acting career (and many critics thought he was second rate), that must have taken some acting ability.
Speaking of KFWB, there have been debates about whether or not the station's call letters were issued sequentially or requested by the owners - the Four Warner Brothers. To me, that's a bit too much of a coincidence.
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