Surprised that there was no KABC 810 am San Francisco?

[michael hagerty]

To pursue the question a bit more, what would have been the origin of the calls KQW, KPO, and KGO? Or KRE or KYA for that matter.

In the early days of radio, most call letters were sequentially assigned by the federal agency preceded the FCC. There's been a debate about this between radio nerds, but I've found some historical resources that indicate that new station owners could request specific call letters. The first example cited was the Iowa banker who requested (and was granted) W-H-O for his new station in 1924. Examples in the Bay Area seem to be KFRC (initials reminding one of San Francisco), and KTAB which was owned by Oakland's Third Avenue Baptist Church.

But most new station owners just took whatever calls were assigned to them - and in those days, probably didn't realize call letters had marketing potential.

I heard that President Reagan worked for WHO in 1930's before landing at KFWB in 1940.

Yup. He was a staff announcer and did play-by-play for Chicago Cubs games. In those days, Des Moines received the game info by wire, and the announcer (Reagan) had to re-create the games' action and excitement while reading the wire feed. No matter what you think of his acting career (and many critics thought he was second rate), that must have taken some acting ability.

Speaking of KFWB, there have been debates about whether or not the station's call letters were issued sequentially or requested by the owners - the Four Warner Brothers. To me, that's a bit too much of a coincidence.

God help me, I'm going to use Wikipedia as a source (kids, don't try this at home):

Although some think its call letters stand for Keep Filming Warner Bros., actually the callsign was sequentially issued by the Department of Commerce, predecessor to the FCC (March 1925) at the same time as KFWA in Ogden Utah (Feb 1925) and KFWC for San Bernardino (also Feb 1925).[1]

 

[radioguy39nj]

I noticed that KPBS went to San Diego for an SDSU or UCSD owned station instead of LA for KOCE or KCET.
WNET didn't become WPBS. I think WNET was heritage calls for National Education Television or NY Education Television. KCET was Southern California Education Television. and KOCE was Orange County California Education.

Who has the WPBS Calls when WNET became a PBS station?

IIRC, the WPBS calls were assigned to a Philadelphia FM station at 98.9. It had an easy listening format. Around 1976, the calls were changed to WUSL (for US-1) and the format flipped to AC. The WUSL calls remain today, but 98.9 in Philly is urban Power 99.

 

[DavidKaye]

To pursue the question a bit more, what would have been the origin of the calls KQW, KPO, and KGO? Or KRE or KYA for that matter.

To my knowledge, all the ones you mention were sequentially issued, as were KFRC and KFWB. (No, KFRC never stood for "Frisco" and KFWB never stood for "Warner Brothers". However, KWBR in Oakland (now KMKY) did indeed stand for "Warner Brothers" (different brothers).)

KGO, however, was originally asigned to Altadena, CA, and then reassigned to Oakland when Altadena was deleted or went broke or whatever. There is speculation that it stood for "General Electric Oakland", but in my readings of news and hobbyist reports of the era I never saw that in print.

 

[Rusty Muck]

To pursue the question a bit more, what would have been the origin of the calls KQW, KPO, and KGO? Or KRE or KYA for that matter.

To my knowledge, all the ones you mention were sequentially issued, as were KFRC and KFWB. (No, KFRC never stood for "Frisco" and KFWB never stood for "Warner Brothers". However, KWBR in Oakland (now KMKY) did indeed stand for "Warner Brothers" (different brothers).)

KGO, however, was originally asigned to Altadena, CA, and then reassigned to Oakland when Altadena was deleted or went broke or whatever. There is speculation that it stood for "General Electric Oakland", but in my readings of news and hobbyist reports of the era I never saw that in print.

The same could be said for WGY in Schenectady, New York (General Electric SchenectadY) but AFAIK, the meaning was never official.

There are a fair amount of stations with sequentially-assigned call letters that had bacronymed meanings. Another long-time NBC outlet, WTAM/1100 Cleveland, ended up saying that their calls stood for Where The Artists Meet (today it also stands for "We're Cleveland's Talk on AM 1100").

 

[MisterGort]

Alot of good information about everything under the sun - but no one gave the answer. The real answer is that The ABC network was a spin off of the NBC network and the call letters KABC were already being used by a AM station in Texas - at the time the ABC Network was incorporated. Thats it.

 

[fybush]

Alot of good information about everything under the sun - but no one gave the answer. The real answer is that The ABC network was a spin off of the NBC network and the call letters KABC were already being used by a AM station in Texas - at the time the ABC Network was incorporated. Thats it.

That's a piece of it...but "WCBS" and "WNBC" were in use in the forties outside of NYC, too, and that didn't keep the networks from doing what they needed to do (which I believe involved cash outlays) to get those stations to change their calls so the calls could be used in the big city.

Indeed, ABC did just that a few years later when they flipped the calls of KECA in Los Angeles to KABC. What was really at stake, I think, was the question of which city would end up as the West Coast network hub, and despite the early emphasis on San Francisco (as NBC's fortress at 420 Taylor Street attests), the rise of television and the allure of Hollywood's glitter were impossible to resist...which is why when ABC did grab the KABC calls from Texas, they landed in LA rather than San Francisco.

 

[Rusty Muck]

Alot of good information  about everything under the sun   -  but no one  gave the answer.    The real answer is that The ABC network  was a spin off of the NBC network   and  the call letters  KABC  were already  being used by a AM station in Texas  - at the  time the ABC Network  was incorporated.    Thats it. 

That's a piece of it...but "WCBS" and "WNBC" were in use in the forties outside of NYC, too, and that didn't keep the networks from doing what they needed to do (which I believe involved cash outlays) to get those stations to change their calls so the calls could be used in the big city.

Indeed, ABC did just that a few years later when they flipped the calls of KECA in Los Angeles to KABC. What was really at stake, I think, was the question of which city would end up as the West Coast network hub, and despite the early emphasis on San Francisco (as NBC's fortress at 420 Taylor Street attests), the rise of television and the allure of Hollywood's glitter were impossible to resist...which is why when ABC did grab the KABC calls from Texas, they landed in LA rather than San Francisco.

Even had NBC won the license to channel 4 instead of the deYoungs, I highly doubt it would have ever taken the KNBC-TV calls. NBC never synced up the calls of their AM stations to match the newly TV sisters, even with the institution of "RCA" or "RC" derived calls - because KNBC/680 and WMAQ/WNBQ in Chicago were notably exempt from that (even WTAM/WNBK in Cleveland kept their calls until the 1956 NBC/Group W trade for KYW AM/TV in Philly; those two stations became WRCV AM/TV, while Group W took the KYW calls to Cleveland).

ABC never instituted the WABC calls in New York City on their AM, FM and TV stations - nor the KABC calls in any city - until 1953, for several reasons.

* The WABC calls had been in use for decades beforehand... on CBS' flagship in New York up until 1946 (where it stood for former owner Atlantic Broadcasting).

* The WJZ calls that were used in New York still had good enough recognition that the nascent ABC didn't feel necessary to scrap. And enough sentimental value for founding owner Westinghouse to reacquire the calls for their Baltimore ABC affiliate (now a CBS O&O).

* While the "ABC" name was acquired from Storer Broadcasting in late 1945, the network kept being referred to as "The Blue Network" until 1947 or beyond in extreme circumstances... early on, the radio network had to fight for a new identity that wasn't tied to NBC. But because the "Blue" name persisted, that was a tall order.

* ABC floundered around financially, especially with their TV network operations. (For the most part, WXYZ-TV's success with local programming in Detroit almost saved ABC-TV outright.) This was until they merged with the United Paramount Theater chain, giving it Len Goldenson and the money necessary to operate a TV network. That merger would be a catalyst that led to DuMont's demise.

Following the merger, the WABC AM/FM/TV calls would be instituted. By proxy, the KABC AM/FM/TV would be placed on the former KECA AM/FM/TV at the same time, since it was now necessary to do so, and again, because Los Angeles was now surpassing San Francisco as the top West Coast city of importance.

 

[Madmansam]

Wow, that is really taking it back! If memory serves (not that I was there at the time) I think KDKA's original call as an experimental station was 8XK.

Anything on California's second AM Radio Station, KWG? What did the calls of KWG stand for if they stand for anything? And did KWG have an original experimental calls like KDKA?

 

[Rusty Muck]

Wow, that is really taking it back! If memory serves (not that I was there at the time) I think KDKA's original call as an experimental station was 8XK.

Anything on California's second AM Radio Station, KWG? What did the calls of KWG stand for if they stand for anything? And did KWG have an original experimental calls like KDKA?

If anything, like KDKA, KWG was taken from a maritime callsign. And from what I've gathered, it signed on as KWG right off the bat with no prior experimental calls.

 

[fybush]

Even had NBC won the license to channel 4 instead of the deYoungs, I highly doubt it would have ever taken the KNBC-TV calls. NBC never synced up the calls of their AM stations to match the newly TV sisters, even with the institution of "RCA" or "RC" derived calls

I disagree, slightly - WNBT in New York did become WRCA-TV in 1954 in sync with WRCA/WRCA-FM, after all, just as KNBH Hollywood became KRCA-TV. It is indeed curious that the O&Os in Chicago and San Francisco didn't get "RC-" calls at the time. (We can assume that they didn't bother changing Cleveland because the wheels were already in motion to swap WTAM/WNBK for KYW/WPTZ in Philadelphia.)

 

[rickradio]

Anything on California's second AM Radio Station, KWG? What did the calls of KWG stand for if they stand for anything? And did KWG have an original experimental calls like KDKA?

If anything, like KDKA, KWG was taken from a maritime callsign. And from what I've gathered, it signed on as KWG right off the bat with no prior experimental calls.[/quote]

KWG didn't stand for anything. Those were the call letters assigned when the station got the initial commercial license in November of 1921. KFRC stood for nothing too. A popular rumor has it that KFRC was taken from some of the letters in the word "Francisco." Nope. Commerce Dept. records apparently show that KFRB and KFRD were issued the same month as KFRC (September 1924).

Another popular rumor about Sacramento NBC affiliate KCRA was that the "CRA" came from the 3rd, 4th and 5th letters in the word SaCRAmento. Another nope. It was actually the result of a mistake an FCC typist made while typing KCRA's initial license in 1945, accidentally flipping the two middle call letters around. The new NBC radio station was supposed to be KRCA after NBC's parent company. Why Ewing Kelly didn't call the FCC on it and have it changed we'll probably never know; maybe they liked how the mistake sounded after all...KCRA does roll off the tongue easier than KRCA would. Besides, NBC would use those letters for their LA TV station, anyway, a few years later, in 1954.

 

[SCV_Ears]

Even had NBC won the license to channel 4 instead of the deYoungs, I highly doubt it would have ever taken the KNBC-TV calls. NBC never synced up the calls of their AM stations to match the newly TV sisters, even with the institution of "RCA" or "RC" derived calls

I disagree, slightly - WNBT in New York did become WRCA-TV in 1954 in sync with WRCA/WRCA-FM, after all, just as KNBH Hollywood became KRCA-TV. It is indeed curious that the O&Os in Chicago and San Francisco didn't get "RC-" calls at the time. (We can assume that they didn't bother changing Cleveland because the wheels were already in motion to swap WTAM/WNBK for KYW/WPTZ in Philadelphia.)

Another theory: KNBC (now KNBR) wasn't adopted until 1947, when the call was switched from KPO, according to John Schneider's essay. NBC didn't have a TV O&O until it purchased KNTV-11 last decade.

 

[recto101]

What does KNTV mean I doubt it means NBC Television but thats how it is seen in 2002. What did NTV Originally mean from 1955-2001 was it supposed to be the original owners in 1955.

 

[recto101]

Alot of good information about everything under the sun - but no one gave the answer. The real answer is that The ABC network was a spin off of the NBC network and the call letters KABC were already being used by a AM station in Texas - at the time the ABC Network was incorporated. Thats it.

What did KABC Texas turn into? if KABC really did exist in Texas. I know that in 1930 790AM LA was KFVF then in 1940 it became KECA then in 1950 it morphed into KABC.

 

[Rusty Muck]

What does KNTV mean I doubt it means NBC Television but thats how it is seen in 2002. What did NTV Originally mean from 1955-2001 was it supposed to be the original owners in 1955.

Sunlite Bakery was the original owner of KNTV, which set up shop first as an independent station before reducing power, reorienting to Monterrey Bay and taking the ABC affiliation - all in 1958.

It was probably just a "TV"-derived callsign, and nothing more. It's possible that the "N" stood for iNdependent, but that's a real stretch.

Saying that it stands today for NBC TeleVision is a happy coincidence that even NBC likely didn't realize for a long time.

 

[Bob E. Nelson]

What did KABC Texas turn into? if KABC really did exist in Texas.

What was KABC (Alamo Broadcasting Company) in San Antonio is now KKYX.

 

[semoochie]

I thought that WTAM was a new set of calls. When I was dx-ing, it was WWWE and I just assumed it always had been. It sounds like they brought them back. Is that true?

 

[Bob E. Nelson]

I thought that WTAM was a new set of calls. When I was dx-ing, it was WWWE and I just assumed it always had been. It sounds like they brought them back. Is that true?

WTAM (1923-1956)
KYW (1956-1965)
WKYC (1965-1972)
WWWE (1972-1996)
WTAM (1996-present)

 

[fybush]

I thought that WTAM was a new set of calls. When I was dx-ing, it was WWWE and I just assumed it always had been. It sounds like they brought them back. Is that true?

The history of this station is more complex than just a simple listing of calls and years would suggest. WTAM was the heritage call under the station's first owners, a battery company and then NBC itself. In 1956, NBC swapped WTAM/WTAM-FM and WNBK(TV) to Westinghouse for KYW/WPTZ(TV) Philadelphia. Westinghouse didn't want to make the swap but was forced into it under the threat of losing its lucrative NBC affiliations in several other markets, and a lawsuit ensued that ended with a forced swap back in 1965.

Westinghouse had moved the KYW calls to Cleveland, and moved them back to Philadelphia in 1965. NBC wanted to keep calls that were similar, hence "WKYC" (the calls that survive on TV in Cleveland). WKYC radio was sold to new owners in 1972 and had to change calls, which is where WWWE came in. It was Jacor that changed the calls to WTAM in 1996, and they made the claim at the time that there was no conscious effort to return to the 1923-1956 heritage, just to find something with "AM" in it.

Knowing the people who were in charge of Jacor when the switch was made, I say there's no way they were unaware of the heritage callsign, and that the move was very deliberate.

I'm pretty sure there's no other former I-A clear channel on the AM dial that's changed identities as much as WTAM. New York's 660 probably came closest, with four call changes (WEAF to WNBC in 1946, WNBC to WRCA in 1954, WRCA to WNBC in 1960, WNBC to WFAN in 1988).

 

[davideduardo]

Alot of good information about everything under the sun - but no one gave the answer. The real answer is that The ABC network was a spin off of the NBC network and the call letters KABC were already being used by a AM station in Texas - at the time the ABC Network was incorporated. Thats it.

What did KABC Texas turn into? if KABC really did exist in Texas. I know that in 1930 790AM LA was KFVF then in 1940 it became KECA then in 1950 it morphed into KABC.

KECA (Earle C Anthony) got those calls in 1939, and had been KEHE before that. It was on 780, but move to 790 with the NARBA treaty.