Her fans are really dedicated. And she's dedicated to them. She was an early user of social media. She had a very active MySpace page back when it was new. She superserves them in a very personal way.
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Her fans are really dedicated. And she's dedicated to them. She was an early user of social media. She had a very active MySpace page back when it was new. She superserves them in a very personal way.
Because she's a great song writer, performer, she's incredibly intelligent, and she has a dedicated fan base.
In a lot of ways, she's like a modern day Garth Brooks.
Garth was never the best musician by a long shot. Not the best vocalist either. A songwriter? Not even close. But in retrospect, he was kind of a marketing genius. He super-served his fans. Threw everything into his live shows. Stepped out of the paradigm with songs that addressed uncomfortable topics like "The Thunder Rolls" and "We Shall Be Free." Kept his "aw shucks" persona alive even when he was one of the biggest selling artists in the world.
His fans were very dedicated, but it spilled over into people who never even listened to country music.
And yeah, when he tried to crossover into pop with the Chris Gaines thing it didn't exactly take, but that album went double platinum even though it was considered a "failure."
Swift amped all that up to 11, and has the songwriting chops to take it to another level.
So here he is at 60 and he's still breaking attendance records. TS will likely do the same.
And he does a longer than most show, with lots of movement on the stage. The fun part is the last third of the time when he sings requests, often based on signs held up by fans in the crowd. And you get the extra verse of Low Places.
Taylor Swift is an interesting case. I remember when she became popular in 2008 and began crossing over to pop and AC. She followed up with a couple more albums (Fearless and Red) that had successful hits. Her “1989” album that was released in 2014? completed her crossover to full on pop star. And it was a damn good album with a ton of hits. As someone who casually will enjoy her music, I think it is still by far her best album to date. She’s always had her fans, very devoted fans. But she wasn’t everywhere as is the case now.
After that, she seemed to fall off - her 2017 album “Reputation” and 2019 album “Lover” took a good bit of heat from critics and she didn’t have any enduring smash hits from those - same with the two “folksy” albums that followed. Her most recent album has done quite well, and her re-released albums have been popular with her fans and some songs have even re-entered the charts. In the past couple of years, she seems to have come back on a level that she was never at before as far as popularity with fans.
I guess my question is this - after 15+ years, how is she more popular than EVER? I don’t recall her previous tours garnering so much attention, nor do I remember her having such extreme fans. Not that there’s anything wrong with either, but I can’t think of many pop singers that are seemingly more popular 15+ years in to their career than they were when they first started having massive hits. She’s everywhere. Almost all artists from the past two decades - be it Adele, Lady Gaga, Kelly Clarkson, Katy Perry, Rihanna, name any - still have their fans, but they don’t have the massive fandom for various reasons that Taylor seems to have going on now that seems to only be getting stronger.
This isn’t an attack on TS at all (gotta be careful, the fandom is extreme) - I’m just trying to figure out how her popularity continually increases while others from her era seems to be fading or have faded. Perhaps Beyoncé is an exception. Will there eventually be a burnout?
After that, she seemed to fall off - her 2017 album “Reputation” and 2019 album “Lover” took a good bit of heat from critics and she didn’t have any enduring smash hits from those - same with the two “folksy” albums that followed. Her most recent album has done quite well, and her re-released albums have been popular with her fans and some songs have even re-entered the charts. In the past couple of years, she seems to have come back on a level that she was never at before as far as popularity with fans.
I guess my question is this - after 15+ years, how is she more popular than EVER? I don’t recall her previous tours garnering so much attention, nor do I remember her having such extreme fans. Not that there’s anything wrong with either, but I can’t think of many pop singers that are seemingly more popular 15+ years in to their career than they were when they first started having massive hits. She’s everywhere. Almost all artists from the past two decades - be it Adele, Lady Gaga, Kelly Clarkson, Katy Perry, Rihanna, name any - still have their fans, but they don’t have the massive fandom for various reasons that Taylor seems to have going on now that seems to only be getting stronger.
This isn’t an attack on TS at all (gotta be careful, the fandom is extreme) - I’m just trying to figure out how her popularity continually increases while others from her era seems to be fading or have faded. Perhaps Beyoncé is an exception. Will there eventually be a burnout?
Taylor Swift just debuted a new album. In its first week, her previous album placed ten songs in the top ten, a record that shattered the Beatles five in the top five! Of course in those days, it took a lot to debut high on the chart, let alone debuting multiple songs there.
Lessons learned from Willie Nelson and Bruce Springsteen----both of whom were doing three-hour shows in the late 70s and into the 80s.
Everybody's plane lands sometime.
That said, Taylor's fanbase rallied behind her when she explained how she got stiffed when her original label made $300 million selling the rights to the masters of her original albums. They love her and they're buying the new versions of those early albums, making sure that she gets the rewards.
Put that together with her undeniable talent and the fact that these are new works, not sound-alikes and you have a recipe for huge sales of already familiar, but new, material. And, voila----chart domination.
Taylor's only 33---eight years younger than Kelly, five(ish) younger than Gaga and Katy, and two years younger than Adele and Rhianna.
I'm not sure that there's a formula for maintaining Taylor-level stardom. I don't know enough about what Rihanna or Katy Perry are up to these days (actually, at my age, I probably know exactly enough).
Adele has her Las Vegas residency (sign of a performer with a mature fanbase), Kelly Clarkson a daily TV show.
Lady Gaga has branched out to acting---a career arc that went from 15 episodes of "American Crime Story" eight years ago to an Oscar nomination for "A Star is Born". She'll be in the "Joker" sequel, now in post-production and due out in the fall of 2024. And she's still making music---including the love theme (do we still call them that?) from "Top Gun: Maverick".
I think Gaga's analogous to Streisand in the 70s. Taylor---maybe Ronstadt at her peak, but with the bonus of writing her own material.
In those days, a song had to be released as a single for sale in stores to be included in the chart. Not anymore.
What's happening now is that an album gets released, people stream it, and that streaming of all the songs is reflected in the chart.
That's true, though, for some, that would seem to be when their bodies finally give out. Elton John just wrapped up his farewell tour, and he's in his 70’s. Bruce Springsteen, also in his 70’s, is still touring and just released another album. In about a month from now, I will have seen Billy Joel and Stevie Nicks live in concert.
I don’t know that music from today will be as timeless as rock from the mid 60’s, 70’s and early 80’s has shown to be. Seems like music was designed to be more disposable after the record labels consolidated and most of the smaller labels disappeared. Maybe that’s just my age now, but I don’t see many pop/rock artists that started in the 90’s doing stadium tours. Most of them, even the country singers, seem to be doing county fairs and casinos.
Also seems to me that women in the music business (and in the TV news business, for that matter) have a lot more pressure on them than men. When I think about 70’s and 80’s artists doing arena tours, Stevie Nicks is about the only one I can think of. Madonna said she was going to resume touring and has been raked over the coals for how she looks. She's 64 years old for Pete's sake! You don’t see men experiencing the same. Granted, I don’t really know what makes men attractive, but I can’t imagine anyone thinks Billy Joel looks good today. I’m not sure he even would’ve looked good to anyone in the 70’s.
There's a big difference between selling six million tickets over five years (Elton's haul for the farewell tour) and a million or more (in some cases, a lot more) copies of every album you make for most of a decade. The farewell tours show that the legends can still sell seats, but it does not prove they're as popular as they ever were.
Most artists tour as long as they can, well after the record deals end, as long as there's a faithful fan base that can fill a few thousand seats in different towns a few weeks a year. Smaller venues, but a chance to perform for people who love to hear you. Herb Alpert, now 88, and his wife Lani Hall (former lead singer for Sergio Mendes and Brazil '66), who's 77, are still touring. Herb's not doing it for the money, but because he loves performing.
Stadium tours are for artists at their peak popularity. And the 90s bands kinda built their image on rejecting the excess of 70s bands selling out Dodger Stadium.
An exception---Metallica, which is playing SoFi Stadium (the same place Taylor Swift is) two weeks after she does, though they're only doing three nights.
Casinos can be lucrative venues for acts with mature audiences.
Women are under more appearance pressure in society in general. That said, my wife and I saw Stevie Nicks and Chrissie Hynde five years ago. Nobody was there expecting to see them look like they did in their 20s. It's fairly equal parts "let's see a legend while we can"/"it'll be great to hear their hits"/"so what do they do now"?
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No one is “as popular as they ever were” if they’re not producing new music. My point is that I don’t think you’re going to see acts of today being able to sell out arenas forty years from now. I can’t imagine Taylor Swift selling out arenas when she’s Elton John's age. Then again, neither of us will know if happens or not. You'll be over 100, and I'll be about 90. We'll be dead by that point.
Of course, they are. That Elton John and Billy Joel can still do it is the exception. Will any artists of today do that? Maybe they will, and maybe I'm just too old to appreciate them, but I can't see it happening.
Not a single fan of those artists cares about that today. That image was fake. They got plenty of excesses while pretending they didn’t. Everyone knows it. Those artists would play Dodger Stadium today if they could. Other than Garth Brooks and Metallica, they can’t. Then again, I keep going back to Elton John and Billy Joel. Maybe that’s because there weren’t all that many from the 70’s and early 80’s who can sell out arenas either. Maybe the two from the 90’s that I can come up with are within the average compared to previous eras.
Of course, they can. I don’t begrudge anyone who does that either. Good on them for being able to keep making money doing what they were doing years earlier. My point, though, is, if you’re performing at a casino (or in Branson, MO, for that matter), you’re not exactly on your way up. In other words, it goes back to what you were saying earlier. What goes up eventually comes down.
No argument to that point. Image just seems more important than substance, and it would seem to disproportionately affect women. Do you think Taylor Swift will be performing in her 70’s? I don’t, and her singing and songwriting skills won’t be the reason.
Be honest---if someone had asked you the same question about Billy Joel or Elton John 43 years ago---1980---would you have bet on them doing it in 2023?
I think it is a generational thing on your part. Sinatra performed live until he was 79, Tony Bennett until he was 94----Streisand's 81 and I think she could sell out a stadium if she went on tour.
Cher's 77 and still touring. That's 44 years older than Taylor is now. Stevie Nicks is 75.
It's not about talent as judged by people of a previous generation---it's about the love of and the nostalgia for the performer from the surviving members of their original fan base. I promise you that if you'd asked 50-somethings 40 years ago if Cher and Stevie Nicks would be selling out tours in 2023, they'd have laughed you out of the room.
If she wants to and the fans still love her, absolutely. It'll depend only on that.
Elton John had two big hits just last year with Dua Lipa and Britney Spears.
Dua Lipa and Britney Spears each had a big hit last year that featured Elton John.
Fixed it for you.
The album is Elton with featured artists. Much the same way Santana had a big hit with guest artists.
And Cher has also “retired” about 3 times…
No one has mentioned Taylor Swift branching out into acting since 2010 when she was in “Valentine’s Day”. She kind of reminds me of Cher in that way.
Which would matter if you went into a store and bought an Elton John album. Today, it’s tracks. They may be grouped into an album, but very little in the way of streams or downloads happens that way.
While Elton has fans, the overwhelming likelihood is that the airplay and streaming action was driven by Britney and Dua’s fanbase, and that these songs would not have been as big had they been Elton solo.
They are remixes of Elton songs so they would not have been as big without Elton.
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