The only way I have seen Rush get beaten is either by counter programming something non-political (Dr. Laura or Ramsey) or by going strong local.
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And let me clarify before I am roasted for saying Ramsey and Dr. Laura beat Rush. They can, and do, in some markets but my point is why put up another syndicated political talker against the #1 guy. You will not beat him with Smerconish, Schultz or another political guy. Going strong local or counter programming seems a good option.
gr8oldies said:
Great point and you are 100% correct...just putting on a good local host will not beat Rush. It takes a solid station with a head start in ratings and branding. If that is not in place then it will take a while. There a places that it happens but it will NOT be overnight!
A good, local host with focus and discipline can take on Rush and slowly and methodically chip away. Management has to be patient. The PD has to have conviction and a plan (and plan "B.") The air talent has to feel that the GM and PD have his back. That's just for starters.
When I programmed WGR Newsradio 55, Buffalo ('95-'00) I hired Ron Dobson out of KSTE to do middays, 10 a.m. - 2 p.m., up against Rush on WBEN from 12-2. Dobson was smart, hip and off-center. He wasn't liberal, wasn't conservative. He was himself. Authentic. Local. Progress was being made, until WGR was LMA'd by Sinclair Radio which also owned WBEN. Word came down from the top and we capitulated. Ron went to overnights, worked out his contract and left for bigger things. Ironically, a few years later he was hired to do nights at WBEN and did an outstanding job until they too went syndicated at night.
You can't just "throw something together" against Rush and expect it to take root. Limbaugh is the number one brand in talk radio. You have to understand where the potential listeners are, where they may come from and what it's going to take to make them find you. I don't think you can fight fire with fire (O'Reilly vs. Rush: Rush wins.) On the other hand, you can't throw a local progressive ideologue up against Rush and think that "all the other listeners" are going to flock to your frequency. Ain't happenin'.
If I had a news-talker and had to go syndicated, I like to position Big Ed against Rush. Given equal signals and an equal supporting cast such as local-national news, talk and weather plus equal promotion, Big Ed would work well. You'd have to devote yourself to positioning and promoting Big Ed; your promos and stagers would have to be funny, ironic and at times you might even have to resort to getting "down and dirty." But wouldn't it be fun? There's nothing like a good, clean radio brawl to attract listeners to radio.
When I programmed WGR Newsradio 55, Buffalo ('95-'00) I hired Ron Dobson out of KSTE to do middays, 10 a.m. - 2 p.m., up against Rush on WBEN from 12-2. Dobson was smart, hip and off-center. He wasn't liberal, wasn't conservative. He was himself. Authentic. Local. Progress was being made, until WGR was LMA'd by Sinclair Radio which also owned WBEN. Word came down from the top and we capitulated. Ron went to overnights, worked out his contract and left for bigger things. Ironically, a few years later he was hired to do nights at WBEN and did an outstanding job until they too went syndicated at night.
You can't just "throw something together" against Rush and expect it to take root. Limbaugh is the number one brand in talk radio. You have to understand where the potential listeners are, where they may come from and what it's going to take to make them find you. I don't think you can fight fire with fire (O'Reilly vs. Rush: Rush wins.) On the other hand, you can't throw a local progressive ideologue up against Rush and think that "all the other listeners" are going to flock to your frequency. Ain't happenin'.
If I had a news-talker and had to go syndicated, I like to position Big Ed against Rush. Given equal signals and an equal supporting cast such as local-national news, talk and weather plus equal promotion, Big Ed would work well. You'd have to devote yourself to positioning and promoting Big Ed; your promos and stagers would have to be funny, ironic and at times you might even have to resort to getting "down and dirty." But wouldn't it be fun? There's nothing like a good, clean radio brawl to attract listeners to radio.
Jim,
I wish you would come to Indianapolis and program a station. All we have here are three stations with wall to wall right-wing BS. You can not get anyone in this market to give progressive talk a chance here dispite the changing demographics of this city to the left. Stations are changing formats here more often than Glenn Beck says something stupid, yet dispite format failure after format failure they would rather loose money and fail again than to give the other half of our community a voice. I would love to be able to turn on my radio and have the option ( there's that word that scares the hell out of the right) of listening to Bill Pess, Stephanie Miller, Ed Schultz, Thom Hartman, Randi Rhodes, Mike Malloy, and Ron Regan. For God's sake, we have scaped the bottom of the right-wing barrell here to the point of even having Fred Thompson put people to sleep for three hour daily, but we cann't get anyone to put on someone as intertaining as Schultz or as inteligent as Hartman. Before someone tell me I can listen to satalite or the internet that's true and I do, but the airways belong to all the people including us "evil libs". The point is while I can, I shouldn't have to.
I wish you would come to Indianapolis and program a station. All we have here are three stations with wall to wall right-wing BS. You can not get anyone in this market to give progressive talk a chance here dispite the changing demographics of this city to the left. Stations are changing formats here more often than Glenn Beck says something stupid, yet dispite format failure after format failure they would rather loose money and fail again than to give the other half of our community a voice. I would love to be able to turn on my radio and have the option ( there's that word that scares the hell out of the right) of listening to Bill Pess, Stephanie Miller, Ed Schultz, Thom Hartman, Randi Rhodes, Mike Malloy, and Ron Regan. For God's sake, we have scaped the bottom of the right-wing barrell here to the point of even having Fred Thompson put people to sleep for three hour daily, but we cann't get anyone to put on someone as intertaining as Schultz or as inteligent as Hartman. Before someone tell me I can listen to satalite or the internet that's true and I do, but the airways belong to all the people including us "evil libs". The point is while I can, I shouldn't have to.
L
louromshow
Guest
Rock -- I agree; Doyle is a talent. He could make a dent in the daytime, but is wasted at night. I'd rather listen to Doyle than Savage, who follows me at my gig.
For those who are tired of political talk on AM radio and want a change of pace, allow me to suggest trying Sports Talk. In Wilmington, we have WWTX 1290 THE TICKET that airs mostly FOX Sports Radio, also Premiere's "The Jim Rome Show" (which airs opposite of Rush at least on WWTX). They also do a local sports talk show from 3pm-6pm. In the evenings WWTX, besides FOX sports radio they'll air some local college sports like U of Del Basketball (U of Del Football is on their sister FM station - WDSD) and Penn State Football, and is the flag ship station for our Minor League team - Wilmington Blue Rocks baseball. It is a great change of pace from the ranting of Rush/Hannity/Savage/Levine that airs on their other sister AM station WILM.
My point is, if you're tired of political talk, consider trying your local sports talk station as a change of pace.
What I found interesting is that is seems, to my ear, that during Jim Rome's show on WWTX they are airing more local spots than their sister station WILM during the same time they air Rush (12noon- 3pm). WILM is airing far more PSA's than WWTX during that same time period. Granted, Rush probably is pulling in more listeners than Jim Rome's show, but the local advertisers seem, based on what I'm hearing as I listen (so this isn't scientific, just anadotal) that WWTX is pulling in more local spots than WILM during the same three hour period.
My point is, if you're tired of political talk, consider trying your local sports talk station as a change of pace.
What I found interesting is that is seems, to my ear, that during Jim Rome's show on WWTX they are airing more local spots than their sister station WILM during the same time they air Rush (12noon- 3pm). WILM is airing far more PSA's than WWTX during that same time period. Granted, Rush probably is pulling in more listeners than Jim Rome's show, but the local advertisers seem, based on what I'm hearing as I listen (so this isn't scientific, just anadotal) that WWTX is pulling in more local spots than WILM during the same three hour period.
I used to feel about sports like you do, when my show would get prempted for sports. I just find sports talk a great change from the same ranting, complaining, hate of those who don't view the world the same as the host, etc. However, to each his/her own.
Been away from this thread and stopped to check in. Interesting, especially regarding Rome. I took a chance on him as a stop gap measure when I had my back against the wall with budget cuts and no-compete-cluster-politics. I signed with Premiere and ran an hour and a half of the Jungle from 12:30 to 2 p.m. Our local PM drive sports talk show ran from 2 to 6 at the time. After much deliberation, I chose to run him in real time. It was a "pick your poison" decision.
Rome was doing his "Bang your monkey for all three hours" shtick at the time, but he never banged Buffalo because Premiere was thrilled to have him on in Market #50 (at the time) on a big 5kW low end of the dial signal. Callers would call him about his abridged show and he'd play it down, "It's all gonna be okay up there, just be cool." We had a good relationship with Premiere.
The staff thought I'd lost my mind. (Wouldn't be the first time.) The established sports guys didn't get Rome's act at all. The PM drive sports guy, an ex-NFL assistant coach, hated Rome. On top of that, I had to deal with listeners who didn't "get" Van Smack, the Jungle, the lingo and the whole routine. I told everybody to be patient and listen. (Actually, I think I told the staff to calm the $#@! down and give Rome some time to take, afterall, it was my ass on the line.)
Eventually, the staff came around, "got" the show and liked it. Listeners were luke warm. Rome burned off a lot of 55+, but I expected this. Plus, we had to draw in more 35-44's to remain vital. It was a trade off. When we flipped the station to All Sports, we re-aligned the line-up and Rome got the full three hours. (I was blown out three months later. It worked out.)
I don't know if you can just plug in the Pimp In The Box and expect him to work, especially outside an All Sports line-up. Like any other syndicated program, the line-up needs to be massaged and you have to promote and nurture the new show in other dayparts. Rome, IMHO, works best inside an All Sports line-up. I could be wrong on this in certain market applications, but I wouldn't want to run him inside a line-up where he looks like the last guy picked for the gym class dodgeball team.
Be well. Take care. -Jim
Rome was doing his "Bang your monkey for all three hours" shtick at the time, but he never banged Buffalo because Premiere was thrilled to have him on in Market #50 (at the time) on a big 5kW low end of the dial signal. Callers would call him about his abridged show and he'd play it down, "It's all gonna be okay up there, just be cool." We had a good relationship with Premiere.
The staff thought I'd lost my mind. (Wouldn't be the first time.) The established sports guys didn't get Rome's act at all. The PM drive sports guy, an ex-NFL assistant coach, hated Rome. On top of that, I had to deal with listeners who didn't "get" Van Smack, the Jungle, the lingo and the whole routine. I told everybody to be patient and listen. (Actually, I think I told the staff to calm the $#@! down and give Rome some time to take, afterall, it was my ass on the line.)
Eventually, the staff came around, "got" the show and liked it. Listeners were luke warm. Rome burned off a lot of 55+, but I expected this. Plus, we had to draw in more 35-44's to remain vital. It was a trade off. When we flipped the station to All Sports, we re-aligned the line-up and Rome got the full three hours. (I was blown out three months later. It worked out.)
I don't know if you can just plug in the Pimp In The Box and expect him to work, especially outside an All Sports line-up. Like any other syndicated program, the line-up needs to be massaged and you have to promote and nurture the new show in other dayparts. Rome, IMHO, works best inside an All Sports line-up. I could be wrong on this in certain market applications, but I wouldn't want to run him inside a line-up where he looks like the last guy picked for the gym class dodgeball team.
Be well. Take care. -Jim
gr8oldies said:
It's not Handel on the Law, but Bill Handel was granted a syndicated weekday afternoon show from Premiere a few weeks ago. It's only 2 hours, 3-5 PM Eastern, and the second hour on Friday is dedicated to legal advice. The barter inventory is pretty low too (2:00 network minutes per hour).
JimPastrick said:
FYI, there is one non-sports radio station on record that carries Jim Rome's show, Iowa City's KXIC AM 800. Airs every day, right before Sean Hannity:
http://www.kxic.com/pages/personalities.html
Listeners were luke warm. Rome burned off a lot of 55+, but I expected this. Plus, we had to draw in more 35-44's to remain vital. It was a trade off.
I'm 58. I listen to Rome and WWTX now about 3 times a week, depending if I'm in the mood for music or talk (the other talk I now listen to is NPR news/info shows - depending on if their topics are of interest). I haven't listened to either Rush on WILM ( I could write Limbaugh's diatribe, it's that predictible) or the "live and local" talkers (one conservative the other liberal) on WILM's and WWTX's cross town rival WDEL for over a month. The live and local liberal talker is more interesting than the conservative talker, because he comes across like he's better read (he also had a former life as a reporter and columist for the Wilmington News Journal) than his conservative counter part and he is more willing to discuss the issue with a caller than get smart with a caller he disagrees with. The conservative host tries to sound "hip and cool" and it just doesn't work, for my ear. Sort of like seeing a middle aged woman trying to relive her youth by wearing a reveiling bathing suit. Besides they both spend a lot of time discussing local politics and issues which, generally, aren't that interesting either.
I guess the point I was trying to make in my first post on this thread is that for those who are just plain worn out from the same ole same ole right wing "banter" of Limbaugh, Hannity, etc, etc, sports talk might be a good alternative.
A side bar, if I may. I had the opportunity in the early morning (6am to catch a bit of Bill Press's show via 1520 Buffalo, the other day, I believe it's still WKBW). He is a happier voice, he's just as one sided (in his case liberal) as the conservatives, but he doesn't come across as angry like many of the right wingers do. If The Bill Press show was on a station I could get at work during the day, I'd give him a try too. I can also listen to Laura Ingraham easier than either Rush or Hannity. She says the same stuff as they (she's conservative like them), but she doesn't come across like she's ready to start shooting people (literally) that don't agree with her, like the "normal" conservative talk host.
I'm 58. I listen to Rome and WWTX now about 3 times a week, depending if I'm in the mood for music or talk (the other talk I now listen to is NPR news/info shows - depending on if their topics are of interest). I haven't listened to either Rush on WILM ( I could write Limbaugh's diatribe, it's that predictible) or the "live and local" talkers (one conservative the other liberal) on WILM's and WWTX's cross town rival WDEL for over a month. The live and local liberal talker is more interesting than the conservative talker, because he comes across like he's better read (he also had a former life as a reporter and columist for the Wilmington News Journal) than his conservative counter part and he is more willing to discuss the issue with a caller than get smart with a caller he disagrees with. The conservative host tries to sound "hip and cool" and it just doesn't work, for my ear. Sort of like seeing a middle aged woman trying to relive her youth by wearing a reveiling bathing suit. Besides they both spend a lot of time discussing local politics and issues which, generally, aren't that interesting either.
I guess the point I was trying to make in my first post on this thread is that for those who are just plain worn out from the same ole same ole right wing "banter" of Limbaugh, Hannity, etc, etc, sports talk might be a good alternative.
A side bar, if I may. I had the opportunity in the early morning (6am to catch a bit of Bill Press's show via 1520 Buffalo, the other day, I believe it's still WKBW). He is a happier voice, he's just as one sided (in his case liberal) as the conservatives, but he doesn't come across as angry like many of the right wingers do. If The Bill Press show was on a station I could get at work during the day, I'd give him a try too. I can also listen to Laura Ingraham easier than either Rush or Hannity. She says the same stuff as they (she's conservative like them), but she doesn't come across like she's ready to start shooting people (literally) that don't agree with her, like the "normal" conservative talk host.
If you want to hear a good conservative who "doesn't sound angry", check out DENNIS PRAGER. He's on Salem stations. I realize, sadly, that his talk-fest doesn't achieve high ratings, but he is, imho, the absolute best nationally syndicated person talk radio has to offer. Usually calm, cogent and concise. I can almost guarantee that he will have you re-thinking some of your positions. Additionally, listeners don't risk overdosing on politics as he focuses on many topics. So, why the ratings-poor performance? Could it be that people want over-the-top cartoon drama?
You're correct. I did forget about Dennis Prager. He's on WNTP 990 Philly's Salem Talker. Their signal isn't that great in Wilmington. Only in the car and not all that great. Can't get him at work. Dennis is the "sane" conservative talker. I used to catch his show when I worked closer to Philly during my lunch break in my car a number of years ago. A great alternative to the bombast of elRushbo. Thanks for the reminder that he's still around.
Bill Press is a well-read progressive and a graduate of Niagara University (Div 1 basketball, BTW), which he once refered to on the air as "the University of Niagara." Bwah? The alumni must have cringed. For the longest time, I thought Bill was "feeling his way around" talk radio. Some days he'd get it, others he sounded like he was trying too hard. A harsher critic than I once refered to Press' act as "stumbling around, trying to do a talk show." He's become better over the years and IMHO offers a listenable option to a lot of what's out there.
WWKB is a 50 kW flamethrower, (DA-1, three towers) but it runs runs "on life support." It's just "there." It gets a 1 share Persons 12+. Entercom's big money talkers in Buffalo are WBEN-AM 930, home of Rush, strong local conservative talkers and the conservative echo chamber. Entercom also operates WGR-AM 550, the sports talker which carries the NHL's Buffalo Sabres, not a bad association by any means.
The downside of Press' show, which can be heard in many east coast cities before sunrise on WWKB (once the legendary Top 40 WKBW) is that he toils in AM drive where the competition is intense. He's up against strong morning shows on the music stations, the service-intensive shows on the news-talk station and (IMHO) his toughest competition, NPR and Morning Edition.
BTW, good "takes" by posters regarding Jim Rome inside a news format. I didn't say it can't be done, just that it needs to be presented well if a news-talker is going to try it in a small to medium market. I didn't think many stations in markets 50+ would take a chance on dropping sports in the middle of a issues-talk line-up.
WWKB is a 50 kW flamethrower, (DA-1, three towers) but it runs runs "on life support." It's just "there." It gets a 1 share Persons 12+. Entercom's big money talkers in Buffalo are WBEN-AM 930, home of Rush, strong local conservative talkers and the conservative echo chamber. Entercom also operates WGR-AM 550, the sports talker which carries the NHL's Buffalo Sabres, not a bad association by any means.
The downside of Press' show, which can be heard in many east coast cities before sunrise on WWKB (once the legendary Top 40 WKBW) is that he toils in AM drive where the competition is intense. He's up against strong morning shows on the music stations, the service-intensive shows on the news-talk station and (IMHO) his toughest competition, NPR and Morning Edition.
BTW, good "takes" by posters regarding Jim Rome inside a news format. I didn't say it can't be done, just that it needs to be presented well if a news-talker is going to try it in a small to medium market. I didn't think many stations in markets 50+ would take a chance on dropping sports in the middle of a issues-talk line-up.
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