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Syndication (in a way)

I was wondering if somebody could help me with this. I have 2 studios. One in NY and one in Chicago.

What is a good way to get those to studios to work together at the same time. So if there is a radio show going on in NY, the people in the Chicago studio can converse with the NY studio over the air?
 
> What is a good way to get those to studios to work together
> at the same time. So if there is a radio show going on in
> NY, the people in the Chicago studio can converse with the
> NY studio over the air?

No personal experience with this but you may wish to contact engineering at KSFO, San Francisco. I talked, at NAB, with a couple of people about how they're doing their morning show. Most "players" are in the San Francisco Studio but the primary talent works from a studio in his home somewhere in Arizona. In addition to audio, they couple the two places with slow-scan TV so everybody can see everybody else. It goes a long way to creating an audio illusion that they're
all in the same place.
<P ID="signature">______________
God save us from those who would save us from ourselves! P-l-e-a-s-e!!!!!</P>
 
> > What is a good way to get those to studios to work
> together
> > at the same time. So if there is a radio show going on in
>
> > NY, the people in the Chicago studio can converse with the
>
> > NY studio over the air?
>
> No personal experience with this but you may wish to contact
> engineering at KSFO, San Francisco. I talked, at NAB, with
> a couple of people about how they're doing their morning
> show. Most "players" are in the San Francisco Studio but
> the primary talent works from a studio in his home somewhere
> in Arizona. In addition to audio, they couple the two
> places with slow-scan TV so everybody can see everybody
> else. It goes a long way to creating an audio illusion that
> they're
> all in the same place.
>
I know in Chicago on WCKG, sometimes Steve Dahl broadcasts from his home in Michigan, while the other people are in the studio. That's exactly what I want to find out.
 
Anything digital is no good for real time conversation...even the "OMG AWESOME 200MS DELAY!!!!" nonsense is still too much since a reply will be over half a second delayed (200ms + response time + 200ms back). Maybe a simple frequency extender over POTS.<P ID="signature">______________
</P>
 
> I know in Chicago on WCKG, sometimes Steve Dahl broadcasts
> from his home in Michigan, while the other people are in the
> studio. That's exactly what I want to find out.

We have a remote host on one of our FM morning shows. We use ISDN equipment from Telos to get him on the air. This is not an uncommon situation, there are probably dozens of stations doing this. There is some audio delay involved, depending on the encoding method you use, but it's usually tolerable.

One caveat is that ISDN phone lines are becoming hard to get in some parts of the country. You need one at each studio, plus an ISDN transceiver.
 
> I was wondering if somebody could help me with this. I have
> 2 studios. One in NY and one in Chicago.
>
In the late 40's and into the 50's, CBS and Arthur Godfrey did this very well. For those of you too young to remember Godfrey, he did a mid morning variety thing on radio.... kind of a precursor to the Tonight Show on TV later.... conversation, guests, singers and a studio orchestra with live studio audience. Sponsors would provide samples and the studio audience walked away with a lot of goodies.

Godfrey had is own DC3 and would fly down to his farm in the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia. He would do his part sitting on the farm with the rest of the gang in the New York Studio. Sometimes they would do the show in Hawaii but I think maybe the gang went there with him. NAB Engineering handbook published in the 50's had the wiring diagram for the hybrid circuit that made all this possible without feedback.

I thought the audio lines from the phone company back then were prohibitively priced... cannot imagine what they would want today.

Here is what I would play with as a test if I were trying to do what you are trying to do:

Standard studio audio at each location. For monitoring purposes, connect the two (or even three or four locations) with POTS and everyone has headphones. We basically have no delay at this point and we have good enough sound for the participants to feel like they are together.

At each studio, feed the audio into Analog to Digital device. (same equipment at each location). Feed all digital signals to the central location; the transmitter or the origination point for syndication. Mix the digital signals and you have top quality sound to deliver to the audience. It may be a bit delayed, buy all are delayed equally. The participants are not listening to digital delayed sound, but the POTS signal, so they are happy as little clams.

Maybe someone has tried this and can tell us it won't work. Then again, maybe bunches of people are doing this every day?
 
> I was wondering if somebody could help me with this. I have
> 2 studios. One in NY and one in Chicago.
>
> What is a good way to get those to studios to work together
> at the same time. So if there is a radio show going on in
> NY, the people in the Chicago studio can converse with the
> NY studio over the air?
>

I recently set something like this up...it's pretty easy.

My AM is a Fox Sports Network affiliate. On of our hosts filled in for one of the national hosts. I put him in one of our production studios, and connected him via ISDN.

If you are just doing voice, ISDN using a G.722 codec is your best bet. It's a pretty low-latency codec. The co-host in California chatted with the host here in Milwaukee live with no awkward delays. They then used instant messaging to privately chat back and forth. He also took calls - they answered them in California and mix-minused them back here. They just IM'd him with the caller information.

It worked beautifully, with a minimum amout of hassle!<P ID="signature">______________
</P>
 
Two ordinary telephone lines.

Let's say you wish to have the live/recorded show done in New York, with talent chiming in from Chicago.

Chicago talent's audio is fed by Tie Line/Comrex or similar device to New York.

New York talent audio (i.e.: a mix-minus feed) is fed back to Chicago by ordinary telephone line, off an ordinary coupler into a headphone amp for the Chicago talent to hear New York. Since you arn't recording New York audio in Chicago, it doesn't need to be great quality, just intelligible.

The digital feed will have some delay, but it is only going one way. If it is a one-time only deal, you can probably rent the equipment. Even if this is an on-going project, once you buy the equipment it's yours. If you used ISDN, there is the additional cost of that line & the difficulty of getting it installed. The Tie-Line, and some of the other units can be set up for either POTS audio or ISDN, although these multi-mode units are more expensive

Another method, if you are recording a show for later broadcast, is to use the method NPR has used in the past.

You run recordings at both Chicago and New York. Chicago talent gets New York talent audio over a POTS feed to headphones, and this is recorded on the right channel. Chicago talent's mike goes on left channel as a clean feed.

In New York, the New York talent send their clean feed to the right channel, while Chicago talent audio comes in by a second telephone line and is fed to New York talent headphones and to the left channel recording.

After the session, you simply combine both recordings, keeping the clean feeds on left and right channel and discarding the telephone audio. Easy to do with digital editing, NPR used to do this on a pair to tape machines.

Of course, if you have a more complex show with music elements then either multi-track record (if you have the software) or remix. Again, a lot easier to do in this digital age.
 
Man. you got to love it when a plan comes together like this. Once you get past the nervousness of the Codec taking a dump, you feel great!
 
> Man. you got to love it when a plan comes together like
> this. Once you get past the nervousness of the Codec taking
> a dump, you feel great!
>

I guess I just live in a good ISDN area. I've never had a codec take a dump. In fact, I once used a Telos XStream as an STL for over a week without a single drop!

It was cool to hear the Fox Sports voice guy say "Live from the FSR studios in Milwaukee..." and hear the local guy from our studio. I don't think I'll ever get tired of that feeling!! (You know, the same feeling you get when you hit the Plate button, and hear that "Ker-Chunk" as you bring a box back to life!) <P ID="signature">______________
</P>
 
I host 5 shows each weekend (10 hours worth) to Houston, D/FW, Austin and San Antonio using G.722 ISDN from my Dallas studio. The stations use Telos equipment, but I'm on a MusiCam Roadrunner (http://www.musicamusa.com/products/rrunner/rrunner.htm) with a Comrex Nexus as a backup. The delay is about 100ms, and all of the callers are handled on the station's end. It sounds like I am in the studio there, instead of remote. I've been doing it over 2 years this way now. I have a Comrex Vector (POTS) as a back-up to the back-up!
 
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