Syracuse Radio in General ...

[Evenste]

I'm new to this board and i just wanted to give my opinion of Syracuse radio, for anyone that cares. I'd also love to see what other listeners think of various radio stations/formats.

I'm not a bigshot radio expert like most of you on these boards seem to be, but I am a semi-avid listener of various radio stations in the Syracuse area both on the AM and FM dial for the last 30 years. I was born and raised here in Syracuse and i remember (just about) em all in my lifetime. from 94 Rock, to Sky 101, to when Country 108 WRRB played "Bye Bye Love" from the Everly Bros to sign off back in the day. i was there (haha) so if I may, I'd like to say a few things about Syracuse radio in general, for whomever it may concern.

First of all, Did i really hear Charma Chamelean on Oldies 92 last night ? wtf ? are you kidding me ? it's bad enough that this station lost the plot to what "oldies" are quite sometime ago, when they decided to add Billy Joel and Thin Lizzy to their playlist, as if this would bring new listeners in droves. Culture Club, or any 80's music in my opinion, does not belong on oldies 92. and you ain't been playing Thin Lizzy and Culture Club for 20 years. why start now ? Yes I understand that times change and what not, but Oldies 92 always had a good following all these years sticking to 50's and 60's. if it's that bad that they feel they need to change, then try a different format altogether. don't insult your listeners with what YOU want to force down their throats. assault us with what we want to hear. we tune into oldies 92 to hear "Brand new key" not "Boys are back in town" and unless you're talking Otis Day and the Knights version of "Boys are back in town" then i don't wanna hear it on what used to be a great radio station that stuck to it's guns. 60's and 50's and some slight 70's thrown in now and again. i'm almost afraid to call and request "Blue Moon" because it's not 70's or 80's enough for the new hip 92.1.

Then there is K-rock I love K-rock in general. I think they play a good selection of modern rock and the Deejays are all pleasant to listen to, with the exception of Ty. I cannot stand this girl. men find excuses to leave their houses and get away from their bitching girlfriends. they shouldn't have to tune in to their favorite radio station and listen to some girl (Ty) raggin on Paris Hilton or ragging on the alleged freaky middle aged men that listen to her program. this girl is a toddler who needs to grow up and see that she's not as wonderful and she would have herself think she is. powers that be, please run her outa town. I'll even spring for the plane or bus ticket.

Then there is B 104.7. i'm sure Beckys a nice enough person, but she can be annoying sometimes to me. I think Ron B is a very good deejay. probably the best deejay we have in Syracuse. (besides Ty) : I love country music, it's one of my favorite genres, but even though I think Ron is awesome. i still just don't get it what makes Ron B and Becky Palmer as a whole, such a great morning show that they won an award for it. I rarely if ever, listen to B 104 in the morning, but it's really more of a format thing for me. i think their "Alleged" country music is a joke. it's not country. it's Faith Hill popabilly garbage.

TK99 apparently thinks that Aerosmith only had 3 good songs, and Joe Walshes only hit was "Lifes been good" heard once every 3 weeks. but at least they stopped playing "Rambling Man" every 5 minutes long ago. they are a joke with their classic rock format. their program director shouldn't be fired. he should be tarred and feathered. they play like a 40% block of the classic rock i grew up listening to on 95x. they never play anything deemed "too heavy" despite if it's classic rock and been proven a tried and true hit in Syracuse. Motley Crue "Home Sweet Home" would be an example. I'm not asking for "Shout at the devil" I'm not even asking for a Pat Benatar song every 10 months or so. you remember Pat right guys ? Ever hear of "Head East" ? ... Phah! ... TK99 is easily blown away, no, stomped by WIII (The Wall) when i can get it in. it's not even a contest. the only good thing about TK99 is that it's not Sappy 102.1. (yet) give em time. in all fairness to TK99 though, I think Gomez and Dave is the best overall morning program on the FM dial by far. so I naturally listen to Mike and Mike on AM because i have beef with Total Krock 99's song selections.

The only station in Syracuse that still rocks is 95X. they have always been the best of the old and the best of the new. they have stayed true to that. I dislike alot of the new stuff and my own moddo for 95X when they play some of this new crap is "If it rots it's on 95X" but despite the fact i just don't like some new music, that's my problem. not a programing problem. WAQX still rules Syracuse radio like The Yankess rule MLB. I grew up listening to Lorraine Rapp, Stereo Steve and of course Fatty (Fat Man) maybe i'm just biased. I can remember when Lorraine played Georgia Satelites for the first time back in the 80's and she took a few minutes to explain how the album came to the studios with a little ice cream packet inside before she played what went on to be a one hit wonder, and it just seemed like a happier time ... The Fat Man was always my favorite morning show. the dude never failed to make the show interesting whether solo or with Dave or Paulie or whoever. I think Beener and Ken is a boring program. somebody please freeze me for 4 hours and wake me when it's 10am if i have to listen to them one more time. but i still love 95X despite one or 2 flaws. imabho

I can't say anything bad about Ted and Amy except that Seinfeld and Freinds knew when it was time to go. Let's just say that I think Ted and Amy have seen better days.

So it is my considered opinion that everything i have read on these boards where everyone (many) says Syracuse deejays are nothing as talented as they were in the 80's, and that Syracuse radio is nothing to what it once was. I would have to agree with those statements 125%. Syracuse radio is Sorrycuse radio now. almost totaly dead and a waste of my time most days. i have resorted to internet radio much more lately because Syracuse radio is lame and also because if I have to listen to Mike Oroso's public service accusements against Ianelli one more time, or Fuccilo's size 54 and a half mouth, I'm gonna .. I'm gonna... i dunno... but i ain't gonna listen to garbage! and I boycott businesses like, Example: "Mc(lame)northeast" ... because i take my classic rock seriously. if TK99 doesn't have enough respect for it's listeners (and they don't) to play more than the same select 150 classic rock songs over and over, then why should i support their advertisors who make this boring radio programming in my city possible.

95X's worst day when they played all what is known as "classic rock" back in the day, is better then TK99's best day since they've been TK99.

I'm done for now. I'll get to AM sometime.

 

[Evenste]

Hey btw.. who was that guy on AM radio in the 70's who used to sing the lunch song. "you can buy it or bag it, you can bag it or buy it"

Does anyone remember ? I think he was on WHEN, but not sure about that.

 

[anoldguy]

First of all, Did i really hear Charma Chamelean on Oldies 92 last night ? wtf ? are you kidding me ? it's bad enough that this station lost the plot to what "oldies" are quite sometime ago, when they decided to add Billy Joel and Thin Lizzy to their playlist, as if this would bring new listeners in droves. Culture Club, or any 80's music in my opinion, does not belong on oldies 92. and you ain't been playing Thin Lizzy and Culture Club for 20 years. why start now ? Yes I understand that times change and what not, but Oldies 92 always had a good following all these years sticking to 50's and 60's. if it's that bad that they feel they need to change, then try a different format altogether.

I don't know if you heard Karma Chameleon last night on 92.1 If you did it was probably on the syndicated "Super Gold". I just looked the song up in my Joel Whitburn "TOP 40 Hits" book and found that song was on the charts in 1983. That would make the song 23 years old. In my book that makes it an oldie. You have to remember when oldies stations started in the 1970's most of the songs they played from the earliest days of rock n roll were only 15 -20 years old. If you listen carefully to WSEN you won't hear "Oldies" anymore. They have chosen to be called "good time rock n roll".

Many oldies stations have changed formats completely rather than change with the times. N. Y. C. has no oldies at all after CBS dropped the oldies format on the very successful WCBS-FM for the very boring and dismal JACK format. You should feel fortunate that the powers that be at WSEN have decided to change with the times rather than scrub the enitire format. I think if you break the latest ratings books down you will see that WSEN is doing pretty well with both men & women 35 -54. Playing Blue Moon, and old Elvis might please the 54 +s but that won't even bring in enough revenue to pay to keep the transmitter on. That stuff now belongs on the Music of Your Life stations. It is time for them to drop Rosemary Clooney and Al Jolson and pick up Bobby Vee and the Ronettes.

 

[ThePickleReport]

Hey btw.. who was that guy on AM radio in the 70's who used to sing the lunch song. "you can buy it or bag it, you can bag it or buy it"

Does anyone remember ? I think he was on WHEN, but not sure about that.

Phil Markert

 

[BobRoss]

Culture Club, or any 80's music in my opinion, does not belong on oldies 92. and you ain't been playing Thin Lizzy and Culture Club for 20 years. why start now ? Yes I understand that times change and what not, but Oldies 92 always had a good following all these years sticking to 50's and 60's. if it's that bad that they feel they need to change, then try a different format altogether. don't insult your listeners with what YOU want to force down their throats. assault us with what we want to hear.

As "anoldguy" alluded (though you may have missed it since he didn't quote properly), the Oldies format is just evolving with the years. Radio stations make their money from listeners in the 25-54 age group. They always have, and always will. National advertisers (where a lot of the revenue comes from) don't care what a station plays or how a station sounds -- they only look at the ratings numbers and buy the top 3, 4, 5 stations in the desired age group. People who are 25-54 don't want to hear music that was topping the charts 10 or 20 years before they were even born.

One good example is WODZ in Utica, because they run the "Oldies Radio" syndicated format through ABC Radio Networks for most of the day (actually all day now that Nick Caplan is gone). It's been probably 2 or 3 years since they've been sprinkling in "Kokomo" by the Beach Boys and a few Billy Joel selections. And it's on stations all over the country, so there's proof that oldies stations near and far are evolving. As "anoldguy" said, at least they didn't just give up and abandon the format entirely, like WCBS-FM did in New York.

Then there is B 104.7. i'm sure Beckys a nice enough person, but she can be annoying sometimes to me.

No argument there!

Syracuse radio is nothing to what it once was. I would have to agree with those statements 125%. Syracuse radio is Sorrycuse radio now. almost totaly dead and a waste of my time most days. i have resorted to internet radio much more lately because Syracuse radio is lame and also because if I have to listen to Mike Oroso's public service accusements against Ianelli one more time, or Fuccilo's size 54 and a half mouth, I'm gonna .. I'm gonna... i dunno... but i ain't gonna listen to garbage! and I boycott businesses like, Example: "Mc(lame)northeast" ... because i take my classic rock seriously. if TK99 doesn't have enough respect for it's listeners (and they don't) to play more than the same select 150 classic rock songs over and over, then why should i support their advertisors who make this boring radio programming in my city possible.

You can blame this decline in quality on three main factors. And it's not just in Syracuse... it's everywhere.

1) Corporate ownership. Back in the 80's and earlier, the FCC had much stricter limits on radio station ownership. An owner could only own one FM and one AM station in a given market. And bigger companies had a much lower ceiling, as far as how many stations they could own nationwide. Most of the station owners were individuals... so-called "mom and pop" operations where a modest profit was good enough, the owners knew the entire staff personally, and employees were given pretty good wages. Stations were also more competitive since it was every station for itself. Now, most of Syracuse radio is owned by four major companies: ClearChannel, Citadel, Galaxy and Buckley. Just as with any other corporation, the key directive is to please the shareholders... or in English, crank out as much profit as possible. Companies that own many stations are easily able to pour all their resources into the 2 or 3 stations they most want to succeed, and let the others pick up the scraps. Do you think CC cares about Nova 105.1 or Citadel cares about Lite 105.9? No. But by putting "something" on the air, at least they're keeping some other competitor from getting on the air and putting something on that could REALLY pose a threat.

2) Consultants. These are the "experts" who come into town for 3 or 4 days once or twice a year, to "review" how a station sounds and then they give the management and talent all this "great advice" to make it even "better." (Hint: anything in quotes in the previous sentence denotes extreme sarcasm.) These are the folks who tell a station to keep the playlist trimmed to 150 or 200 songs. These are the same folks who tell the jocks to keep their talk breaks short and sweet and get back to the music. Instead of getting to know the jock you're listening to and become their "friend," instead you're lucky to hear the title and artist of 3 songs an hour, and anything else beyond that is usually a sponsor mention, or a self-promotion for the station. When it comes to contests and gimmicks on the morning show... it's usually because the consultant said "this worked so great in (insert far flung city here), it will be a sure-fire hit here!"

3) Sales departments that are short-staffed and/or lazy. Why do you hear Billy all the time? Because he pays big bucks. Some salesperson can hit their monthly, quarterly or annual goal with one trip to Billy, sell a ton of spots, and they're pretty much done. Why go calling on 30 different low-budget clients when you can just hit one big spender? Radio stations love to sell clients on annual contracts. They make a ton of commission up front, and they barely have to do anything for the rest of the year. Unfortunately, because of corporate ownership... there's nobody saying "oh, if we play their ads too much, the station will sound bad and people will be turned off." Instead, it's "Wow, look at all the zeroes on that check! If it's 3 spots an hour he wants, it's 3 spots an hour he gets!"

And yet radio still wonders why so many people are trading in their Walkman for an iPod or satellite radio. Slowly but surely, we're slipping past the age where people will allow themselves to be a slave to someone else's musical playlist. If I can load up an iPod with 8 hours of music I personally like, why should I listen to 8 hours of music that's littered with a number of songs I don't care for, and commercials?

 

[metoo]

Just an fyi, Billy usually does not pay the highest rates on the station and the sales person that handles that account won't be getting rich anytime soon.

 

[Evenste]

Thanks to "Thepicklereport" for answering my question. I could never remember the guys name, but the "buy it or bag it" song is one of my earliest memories of Syracuse radio. thankfully i'm not all that old yet to remember any further back.

Also thanks to "Bob Ross" for explaining the corporate owned radio station as opposed to the private "mom & pop" stations of the past. I knew it was large corporations taking over radio to a degree. i just never realized it was as big as Walmart though. that is what it seems like anyway. I'm not anti corporation if they can make it better, but i liked when deejays had more freedom to ramble on a bit during their on air time. and i don't mean the morning shows. i think some morning show deejays need a muzzle. *hint* (Ty) ... but i mean like when Dave Frasina takes a couple of minutes to tell about how George Harrison played with Cream on "badge" that is interesting to me. I learn something and i also feel like this guy actually 'knows his sh*t". I don't tune into radio for an education, but a good deejay can make you want to listen to a shitty radio station like TK99 sometimes.

So thanks again for the replies everyone, and somebody please bring back The Fabulous Sports Babe. haha ... kidding

 

[Radknowski]

View from the western end of the Empire state:

For what it's worth, I don't think 'radio in the 'Cuse is as bad as the initial post describes it. It's not major market, but it's not Elmira either (sorry 'Bone.) I only get to listen on the way to my brother's digs in Oswego a few times a month, but it's not bad.

I think some good points are made in the initial post, but one of the points that intrigues me is the reference to Oldies stations. Yeah, it sucks that Elvis, the Platters, Otis and the Everly Brothers aren't getting played much anymore, but the reality is, 55+ is a tough demographic to sell. Gettin' old is a b!tch. So is trying to sell 55-64 demos to a 28 year old buyer who's looking at her Arbitron, checking the CPM and buying only the top three stations 25-54 Persons, Men or Women, because the client demands it. Oh, and Oldies is the kind of music her grandfather listens to and he's bald, farts every three steps and re-arranges his package every three minutes. It's not the music business anymore, it's an advertising medium. "Show me the numbers in the demo I wanna buy."

Everybody knows that a station has to deliver the 25-54 or the components inside the 25-54 demo or the clients won't buy. Silly? Hell yeah it is, as if you have no buying power when you hit 60, it's outright bullsh*t, but that's life in the sales trenches.

Oldies stations in every small, medium and major market in America have dropped the word "Oldies" and begun calling themselves Biggest Hits, Greatest Hits, Classic Hits or America's Hits. They've traded in playing "Stand By Me" 12 times a week for playing "Movin Out" 12 times per week. Same sh*t, different lawn. But really, how much more could you stand to hear "Judy's Turn To Cry?"

So the 62 year old guys who want to hear "Blue Moon," "There Goes My Baby" and "Heartbreak Hotel" want to shoot their radios when "Karma Chameleon" (which was heavily influenced by Boy George's infatuation with Smokey Robinson) and "The Power Of Love" get played by the station that hasn't called itself Oldies 92 in three years. Yet, there's a whole group of listeners 35-54 who are buying into the 70's, 80's and even 90's and they dig "We Got the Beat," "Addicted To Love," and "Say You Love Me" as much as that 62 year old steel worker dug "Our Day Will Come" (BTW, one of the grooviest lounge songs ever to grace the felt pad on a Rusco turntable.)

Hell man, it's nearly 2007... a hit from 1987 is 20 friggin' years old... Fleetwood Mac's "Rumors" LP is 30 years old!

By the way, while I've been hammering out this screed (with a few phone breaks), here's what played on my hard drive:

"Breakdown" -Tom Petty
"Shining Star" -EWF
"I Count the Tears" -Drifters
"Pride (In The Name of Love)" -U2
and "Unskinny Bop" -Poison​

There's not a radio station in America that would play that kind of wacked-out set and even if it did, even I probably wouldn't listen to it and neither would 99% of radio listeners. But that's just an example of the songs in my folders.

As to Billy F... the dude has stores in Buffalo too and his commercials are some of the worst drek you'll ever hear on the radio. His spots are automatic TSL killers. Soon as his stammering illiterate schpiel begins (the same one he does in Syracuse, Albany and wherever the hell else he's selling wheels) the button gets pushed. I can't imagine buying a car from the dude (as if buying a car anywhere these days is a day at the beach) but apparently, lots people buy his act. Says a lot about saturation advertising and the American car buyer, don't you think?

If there's an upside to his presence, he forces other car dealers to buy radio or risk getting run over.

Gotta bounce... Zep is on the speakers and "The Crunge" is blasting... "has anybody seen that confounded bridge?!"[/Mike Radknowski]

 

[Evenste]

"@Radknows"

What you said definitely makes sense. I can see where songs i consider "oldies" are way past their usefullness to make any money for a radio station. but then why not change formats altogether to something that would make more money ? why do they (any oldies station, not just WSEN) hang on to the "Greatest hits of all time" it's like hanging on to Bret Farve just because he's a hall of fame QB and not necessarily because he's the best QB for the team from a business standpoint. i'm not trying to steer this conversation to the NFL, but just using this as a reference point. does WSEN feel they owe the listeners something ? or is it more of getting back to what "Bob Ross" said about corporate owned stations ? they keep WSEN there simply so another radio corp cannot make a move into their market ?

Also throughout your reply Rad, it's like you're telling me from a corporation standpoint, that the corporation knows what I want to hear, more than i the listener, knows what i want to hear. i'm not criticizing you. i appreciate your answer. what i am saying though, is that I really could stand to hear "Judy's Turn To Cry?" much more than you or Buckley Corp thinks. i sure as hell don't tune into WSEN to hear "Charma Chameleon" it's this listeners opinion that corporations like Buckley have no creativity and are too lazy to try and make an oldies channel work in todays market. old(er) people are old(er), they're not dead. i'm 36, the best part of me was running down ... well nevermind that, but let's just say when they recorded "It's my party" i wasn't even born. so i don't altogether buy into the "nobody wants to listen to old music" but old people. i buy into it to an extent, but not altogether. If "oldies" as i call it, sucks so bad. then why do programs like "Super Gold" and "American Gold" do so well in national syndication ?

For a listener like myself trying to figure out how all of this radio stuff works. you guys give good info and I appreciate it.

I guess i should be thankfull that WSEN still plays 90% of what they have always played since "86", but i'm not really all that thankfull lately. i can listen to just about anything musicly for my taste. i prefer WSEN's format to most other stations, but they could all shut down tomorrow up and down the FM dial and it wouldn't make a difference to me. there is so many avenues now days to listen to music, that people aren't going to waste time with what Buckley thinks i want shoved down my throat.

As for Culture Club and the reference i made to them being played on WSEN. I actually like Culture Club. they were one of my favorite groups when i was a kid. yes, i took alot of crap for it !! i went to see them in the War Memorial when they came with "X Davis" in the 80's, so i wasn't put out because WSEN played Boy George where I thought Elvis and The Beatles should be. I was put out because whether WSEN calls it "Oldies" "Greatest hits of all time" it's like entrapment to me when a listener like myself tunes in to think he's gonna hear 60's and 50's music which WSEN has played forever, and i get a barrage of Billy Joel and Thin Lizzy instead, or they throw in Culture Club, figuring that the listener is so old and senile that they'll think it was Tiny Tim. it's tantamount to WSEN slipping something in my drink at a party while i was just expecting punch.

Seriously this is how I see it. I'm sure that most listeners of radio don't put as much thought into it as that, and that they could care less if WSEN plays Huey Lewis, but i'd be willing to bet that there is quite a few like me who feel like WSEN is trying to tell me "this is what you should be listening to, "Billy Joel is in, The Monkees are out." "go to your room" but the transmitter is their personal property and they can certainly play anything they like over it. WSEN has been a great station all these years, and even when it was country i listened. Spider always plays my requests for the most part, and Tony Bombardo is less obnoxious today than ever before.

Sorry my posts are so long. I'm passionate about my radio. haha

"The Crunge" great song, great taste. my favorite band in the world next to Pink Floyd, Culture Club, and of course Abba : /

 

[DaCritic]

And yet radio still wonders why so many people are trading in their Walkman for an iPod or satellite radio. Slowly but surely, we're slipping past the age where people will allow themselves to be a slave to someone else's musical playlist. If I can load up an iPod with 8 hours of music I personally like, why should I listen to 8 hours of music that's littered with a number of songs I don't care for, and commercials?

And that in itself causes a problem for the rest of us who still listen to terrestrial radio... the only people who want to hear truly eclectic playlists and not just the same sound over and over again are getting XM and Sirius satellite radios or listening to CDs and iPods, so they are going "off the grid" when it comes to the ratings. The people who are left are the cheeseballs who DO like to hear the same thing over and over again, so the stations will continue to program to them and nothing will change.

 

[Bob1370]

A lot of people may be looking nostalgically here on the days of the 70s and early 80s, when the leading Syracuse radio stations DID have a major market sound. People from WHEN, WOLF and WNDR were winding up in Buffalo, Tampa Bay, Cleveland, Detroit, Chicago and even (in Don Bombard aka Bobby Shannon's case) in New York City, with regularity--because the talent level was that high, and stations worked hard to recruit and develop it. I remember it first hand...

And that investment in talent paid off, made the station owners some serious money as radio became a real competitor with TV and the newspapers for large ad buys from both local and national accounts.

I'd love to know if they're getting as big a share of the action now.

 

[BobRoss]

And that investment in talent paid off, made the station owners some serious money as radio became a real competitor with TV and the newspapers for large ad buys from both local and national accounts. I'd love to know if they're getting as big a share of the action now.

Last I heard, radio was doing "decent" in ad revenue. Newspapers, in most cases, are the ones taking the fall. The once-a-morning newspaper just can't compete with the constantly-updated news offered online, on TV and on the radio. That's why websites are practically a requirement for any newspaper that wants to survive... and not just "any" website, they need to update it around the clock. (Syracuse.com does a so-so job of that, posting mini-updates during the day, but they still make you wait until tomorrow's paper to get the full story, whereas TV and radio will give you all the dirt that night. Still, better than small-town paper websites that update once a day.)

However, I think the long-term outlook for radio revenue is about the same as the ratings... as more and more people catch on to satellite radio and portable media players, they'll start turning away from the radio. Why listen to a radio station where I enjoy 70-80% of the songs, when I can load up an iPod that's ALWAYS playing a song I like -- and without commercials?

Part of radio's problem -- in any market -- was when stations began to stop developing talent. When was the last time you saw a Syracuse jock jump ship for "Buffalo, Tampa Bay, Cleveland, Detroit, Chicago and even New York City?" Today, jocks are instructed to read pre-written liners that usually involve some sort of mandatory sponsorship mention, and continue the forward momentum of music as quickly as possible. At some stations, you're not even allowed to stop the music to talk -- if a song intro is too short, that liner gets reduced to simply saying the name of the station. There's no entertainment value there... people like Wolfman Jack, Cousin Brucie, Rick Dees and such would have never made a name for themselves if that's all they were allowed to do.

In years past, the overnights and weekends served as a "breeding ground" where fresh talent could be broken in. After all, if someone's going to be new and possibly making mistakes... better to have those flubs overnight when fewer people will hear them. But today, many stations are voicetracked evenings, overnights and weekends. Where do you bring in your newbies now? In many cases, training someone how to voicetrack is actually a step BEYOND training them to run the board live, so it's kind of backwards. You have to know what it's like to BE live before you can genuinely PRETEND to be live. I also think that starting someone on voicetracking is a bad idea because they could get used to that "safety net" where they can screw up, because they can just re-record it until it's right. When you're on live, that's it... no retakes, no do-overs.

Even on morning shows, few radio jocks these days are entertaining enough where people will say "Did you HEAR what John Doe said on the radio today?"

I seriously think some people only listen to the radio to win contests. And ClearChannel's doing nobody any good with their national contests where most people have absolutely no real chance of winning. Listeners aren't stupid. They know when a contest isn't worth playing. If I were out to win a contest, I'd rather devote my time to a local $10,000 prize than a national $1,000,000 prize.

 

[Element9]

Well said. Salient post, indeed!

As we've frequently debated on the Buffalo board, the problem lies at the small market level, where stations once served as incubators for talent that aspired to move up to larger markets. Sadly, these days, most small market stations are automated or on the satellite, leaving little or no chance for rookies (out of college or high school) to get broad-based experience and refine their craft.

It just popped into my head that indirectly, the proliferation and expanding popularity of FM (music stations) had something to do with the state of radio and talent today. From the Schulke Beautiful Music formats to the Superstars AOR formats to the Super Q CHR formats of the 70s and early 80s, one component remains constant. Consider this: Most of those formats relied on regimenting the talent and keeping the music flowing. Read the liners, play the music, maintain forward momentum.

As FM popularity increased, largely because FM attracted a generation that knew where to go to hear the hits in "crysatl clear FM Stereo," the popularity and viability of AM music stations declined. AM moved, successfully in most cases, to news-talk-information for salvation. Eventually, even the small town kiloWatters where kids out of college first went to get experience doing news, sports, production and playing the hits, changed to satellite talk.

And here we are today. FM slowly yielding to iPods, XM and Sirius and soon, WiFi and cell phone radio. It's as though owners, operators and upper management learned nothing at all from their past experiences. Y'know why this is? Because there are so many Young Turks that are managing clusters, utterly clueless as to the HISTORY of radio.

Was it Churchill who said, "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it?"

-9-

 

[BobRoss]

the problem lies at the small market level, where stations once served as incubators for talent that aspired to move up to larger markets. Sadly, these days, most small market stations are automated or on the satellite, leaving little or no chance for rookies (out of college or high school) to get broad-based experience and refine their craft.

Exactly. And even though there are some, the "rookies" still aren't that great. One example is WMCR in Oneida, which I don't listen to often, but I've caught evenings where they've had some high school or college student on, and sounding terribly awkward. Another example is WLZW in Utica, which is usually #1 or #2 weekdays when the full-timers are on, but the quality of the talent drops through the basement floor on certain weekend shifts. The same girl's been on weekend overnights forever, and still doesn't sound any better than before. So even when there IS a "breeding ground" for talent to get started, the old "read the liners, play the music" idea doesn't necessarily train people to become good talent. It just trains them to read. A. Liner. Off. The. Card. And. Press. The. Button. To. Fire. The. Next. Song.

And here we are today. FM slowly yielding to iPods, XM and Sirius and soon, WiFi and cell phone radio. It's as though owners, operators and upper management learned nothing at all from their past experiences.

I also think a great part of this has to do with the cluster ownership of radio. If you didn't have publicly-owned companies like ClearChannel, Entercom, Infinity, etc. buying up tons of stations, you wouldn't have owners who are pressured to please the shareholders. The advent of corporate group ownership greatly sped along the process of replacing jocks with computers, all in the interest of increasing profits, and pushing up the value of the stock.

Back when "mom and pops" or smaller, regional groups owned the stations, it was most likely one person who owned it all. When there weren't shareholders, most owners were simply happy for a modest profit. There were more live jocks around the clock, making better salaries, and they were allowed to spend time prepping for a real show -- not voicetracking 3 other markets, producing 4 60-second spots with 2-3 updates each, and doing their own local airshift all in an 8-hour day. (Corporate Says: "Oh, and if you don't get it all done in 8 hours, sorry! Even though it's illegal for us to say so, you can't put down for overtime!") There was a time when doing your airshift was the thing you looked forward to, but today it's more like the inconvenient waste of 4 hours that's threatening to keep you from getting everything else on your "to do" list crossed off.

 

[therealjm12]

Back when "mom and pops" or smaller, regional groups owned the stations, it was most likely one person who owned it all. When there weren't shareholders, most owners were simply happy for a modest profit. There were more live jocks around the clock, making better salaries, and they were allowed to spend time prepping for a real show

Ah yes, the Mom & Pops owners. I was there, been there done that. Making minimum wage even as a full timer. The health care was racing the other employees to the bank to cash your paycheck on payday so your check wouldn’t bounce.
Pop’s input to programming was that “there aren’t enough polkas or hymns played on the radio nowadays.” One nitwit owner actually fired the cleaning girl. She was a high school student that came three times a week and vacuumed and cleaned the toilets- all for $ 5.00. He said, “ For $5.00 I can do it myself”. The building was NEVER cleaned again.
Show prep: You mean the morning paper (if the station even got it), the basis for the morning newscasts? That was long gone by the time I got there. Probably used to line the owner’s bird’s cage.
Show prep may have consisted of mowing the station‘s lawn (or owner’s house lawn). Among other show prep actives, you may be “requested” to pick up the owner at his girlfriends house – don’t let his wife find out. The last Mom & Pop operation I worked at, I actually had to bring in my own toilet paper. Seems the other employees stole the station’s supply. That would be one or two rolls a week and the owner refused to replace them.
When I finally went to work for the big boys, at first I was in seventh heaven. Equipment that was clean and worked. If it didn’t there was someone on call to fix it. I didn’t care if the management was never around, or if they were, didn’t speak to me. Problem was, every time a computer would appear someplace in the building, a fellow employee would disappear. Eventually a computer would always appear with my name on it but at least the toilets were clean and my last paycheck didn’t bounce.
Don’t get me wrong. I did have my good times in the small stations and worked for and with some great people, but if I could go back in time (like a Twilight Zone episode) I may not find it as enjoyable as I remember it or other people say it was.

 

[MikeRadknowski]

Small Market Horror Stories

Well now, I think we have a thread here! Looks like we've turned the page and the next chapter is titled "Radio Horror Stories."

Here's one for the books: A good friend of mine (I'll call him "Don") once worked in small station in one of New York's "Thruway markets." I won't describe the situation further because Don might not appreciate telling this tale of woe, every word of which is true!

The station owner was also the GM. The guy's wife did the books... and traffic... and lord only knows what else. His daughter cleaned the place (irregularly.) This guy traded out EVERYTHING for his home and family. Car, furniture, rugs, house painting, kitchen cabinets... you name it, he had his sales people workin' a trade for it.

As we know, sales people don't get commission on trade orders. At this particular station, commission was not paid when the order was written, but on instead, on COLLECTIONS. Not unheard of in small markets and I'm told there are some medium and large market stations that have done the same. But for the most part, most stations pay commissions on orders written, then charge back the commission if the client doesn't pay or pays late.

The station didn't have a wire service, didn't have a production room, didn't have more than three fulltime people on the airstaff, and that included jocks and news-jocks who did double duty. The midday guy did morning news from his apartment on a Marti! The station DID have a network for a while, but that died without notice one day because the owner-manager was more than six months behind in payment to the network!

Here's the event that takes the prize: One day, Don had to go to the hospital emergency room. The doc told him he needed surgery for appendicitis. It's not like you can say "I'll come back in a month" when you hear a diagnosis like that. So Don was admitted and had the surgery without complications. But when it was time to be discharged, the hospital told him he had no health and hospital insurance. Apparently, the premiums had lapsed! The GM stopped paying the insurance premiums on the entire staff's medical insurance a half year earlier, but never told anybody. He was pocketing the cash! Only by sheer luck, smooth talking and the hospital's benevolence, was Don discharged without problems.

But when he confronted the GM the next day, the GM did a two-step, became indignant and said something like "I don't know how THAT happened..." My friend says, "well, I do... I called the insurance company and they said they haven't received a premium payment for the last eight months!"

The GM knows his bluff had been called and said, "give me your medical bills and I'll take care of everything." Don handed over EVERY medical bill he from the doctor, the anestheseologist, the emergency room and hospital, and every bill for follow-up visits to the doctor, which the GM paid. But the GM insisted, "this is just between you and me."

Yeah, right. The guy's co-workers were some of his best friends and he made sure EVERYBODY knew what had happened. He often says the only (big) mistake he made was not notifying the NY state authorities... because he could have had himself a radio station. Cheap.

It wasn't long after that he left for another job at a radio station in a larger market that was owned by a corporation that paid its insurance premiums, had a wire service, a network, clean bathrooms and plenty of good equipment that was taken care of by a fully staffed engineering department and plenty of employees to do the jobs.

The sad thing is, I've heard horror stories similar (but not as bold) to this from a few other jocks... guys who had to race to the bank to get their checks cashed, guys who never got their commission checks... and guys who actually came to work one day and found the door to the station PADLOCKED with a county sheriff's department seal on the chain! Seems the owner didn't pay the rent for about a year.

Small market radio isn't always the "happy days" we make it out to be in our memories.

 

[oldschooler1]

Re: Small Market Horror Stories

Small market radio isn't always the "happy days" we make it out to be in our memories.

You got that right, Mike. The old guys lament and lament the loss of the "old days" and the "small town talent pools" and all that yadda yadda. Those of you who lived through it--c'mon, wasn't the product just plain CRAP sometimes? More examples: One station I was at literally had a transmitter "shack". I mean, the transmitter was in a SHACK outside the statin. Just like you can picture in your mind: a ramshackle, falling-down shack with a door coming off its hinges. The studio wasin a double wide in which, if you jumped up and down hard enough, you could make the needle skip. In the early 80s, The currents were played off 45s. We had 3 "spotmaster" cart machines, which still required you to "lock in" the playback head, with no remote start buttons. The GM came in one night and changed the FM format while I was in the middle of my shift. From pop/top 40, to beautiful music ON REELS. He kept beer in his fridge.
Or another station, built in a former gasoline station, and there was a sheen of oil on top of the water in the toilet. You couldnt use the water out of the tap for anything. It smelled like gasoline. It used a futuristic computer system and music and spots ON CASETTES. Yes, CASSETTES, programmed by a computer. The network news was stolen off-air from a station in a nearby market, and since the computer "lost" time a fraction of a second every hour, within a day the computer would be cutting to the other station just in time to carry their legal top of the hour ID.
Or the other station, in a medium market, where the average pay in 1990 was $6/hour, but the owner could contirbute miillions for a broadcasting school in his name.
Yea, gee, the good old days. I once made more money per week at a pizza delivery job than I did at my "full-time" jocking gig, raising the question---which was my fulltime job?

 

[SirRoxalot]

Hey, you can't say that small-town mom & pops didn't give you incentive to get better & move up, or get out!