Syracuse Radio... WTF

[still_around]

Can some explain to me the reason two out of three rock stations in this market have regressed to stagnant 80's records again...

WTF?<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by still_around on 02/01/06 02:29 PM.</FONT></P>

 

[SirRoxalot]

If you were 15 in 1981, you're 40 now.

> Can some explain to me the reason two out of three rock
> stations in this market have regressed to stagnant 80's
> records again...
>
> WTF?

Because 35-49's grew up on stagnant '80s records and listen to the stations that play them. If you're after the $$$$, you need the 35-49's.

12-24's listen to their iPods, satellite, or computer streams. 25-34's don't have as much money to spend, so advertisers don't covet them as much as those people who are making decent money, and have to spend it as they buy houses, furnish them, and buy stuff for their kids.

Welcome to Radio 101. Thanks for your question.

 

[raydio1972]

Re: If you were 15 in 1981, you're 40 now.

yeah, yeah... blah, blah... so simple, roxalot. and yes, that is radio 101 for ya, despite the fact that audiences continue to splinter more and more as programmers continue to believe that their audiences are predictable dumbshitz with no interest in developing new music interests once they reach the age of 30. so, yeah you're right about the theory.. only it's not working so well and the rock format continues to take bigger and bigger dumps every year. somehow country music listeners have less of a problem accepting new music in the coveted 35-49 demo.

if radio is going fight back from the negative perception that continues to build, it better get smart (not likely).


> > Can some explain to me the reason two out of three rock
> > stations in this market have regressed to stagnant 80's
> > records again...
> >
> > WTF?
>
> Because 35-49's grew up on stagnant '80s records and listen
> to the stations that play them. If you're after the $$$$,
> you need the 35-49's.
>
> 12-24's listen to their iPods, satellite, or computer
> streams. 25-34's don't have as much money to spend, so
> advertisers don't covet them as much as those people who are
> making decent money, and have to spend it as they buy
> houses, furnish them, and buy stuff for their kids.
>
> Welcome to Radio 101. Thanks for your question.
>

 

[Radknowski]

Re: If you were 15 in 1981, you're 40 now.

<font face="times new roman" size="3" color="660033">
Could it be that so much of Active Rock and CHR these days flat out blows?

Could it be that Country has become the new AC, the new CHR and the new Rock for thousand of (new) listeners?

Or might it be that 35-49's still can't get enough of Misty Mountain Hop, which has become the Proud Mary of Classic Rock?</font>

 

[CNYradio315]

Here's the answer

You want to know what happened to the 18-34 demo for males in Syracuse?? Here's your answer. Go to Big Shots Nighclub on a weekend. I'm serious. Go there and look around. This is a COUNTRY bar now. They play nothing but classic rock and country music... and the joint is PACKED. This bar is filled to the rafters with 21-35 year olds who KNOW this music. Country and classic rock has filled the gaps left by an awful rock arena. Theres ipods, mp3 players, cd burners, and other options. 95X, Dog, and TK are right on the mark w/ their objectives. I think K-Rock will suffer some, they will come out in force on this board and bash me but they know its true. They thrive on the kids 12-20 who are looking for their identity and need to hear some tunes... but that segment of the population is going away at a lightning pace. These are your hardcore online gamers, music downloaders, and technologically advanced demo. There is no money in this demo. You can sell all the hydroponic shops and bowling alleys you want packages on KRL but the fact is without comboing TK and Krock, you wouldn't have 2 commercials on that station and you know it. TK is doing great right now, X will rebound with this new format shift. If ANYONE was smart, Citadel or Galaxy they would rival B104 and possibly skew younger in the country demo, not older like that failure Galaxy does. Look at the country landscape. The age of the artists, the people at the shows, the people buying the records, the people at Big Shots singing along to Dierks Bentley and Montgomery Gentry... Theres your money demos for the next 10 years and exactly where Syracuse radio is missing their mark.

 

[still_around]

Thanks for Radio 101, but...

Ok, I understand the theory about demographics. I am a mid 30's person, house, kids, vehicles with XM radio, etc. I listen to my XM because of the deeper playlist on each of my favorite stations. My iPod affords me the luxury of listening to "Saga- On the Loose" on a whim. I am tired of hearing the same 50 songs over-and-over again. Terestrial radio had always been about X number of songs on various rotations. Some hotter than others.

I also realize there are other variables such as AQH and TSL. Take Howard for example "... the average H.S. hater listened longer and more often than his fans did because they thought they might miss something". I think listeners aren't being hooked into radio anymore. They've been force-fed and super-served right into the arms of an iPod/XM salesman. Yes, Howard may be the exception, but, he's also a pioneer of sorts. Are we not paying attention? Can we apply this to non-talk radio? Is the world flat?

Could it be possible that conventional radio programming has outlasted its usefulness? Is there another way ????

I'm not pointing fingers. I'm not saying I have the answers. I am NOT looking for anything other than debate. I am throwing my opinion out to some people that I might never get to otherwise get feedback from. I am not in the 'biz. I don't believe in the traditional methods of present day programming. I had a small taste of success in college using other methods than research.

Please be constructive. As much as I enjoy all the verbal sparring, I will not be putting my (BLEEP) in the ring.

PS. No, this is not Brian Ocean, I promise!

 

[SirRoxalot]

Radio 110

> Could it be possible that conventional radio programming has
> outlasted its usefulness? Is there another way ????

> audiences continue to splinter more and more as programmers
> continue to believe that their audiences are predictable
> dumbshitz with no interest in developing new music interests
> once they reach the age of 30.

> somehow country music listeners have less of a problem
> accepting new music in the coveted 35-49 demo.

The original question was - to paraphrase - "Why are several radio stations playing bad '80s crap?" The answer was - to paraphrase - "Because they want to attract 35-44 year old listeners."

The new question is "Why can't those stations play new music that those 35-44 year old listeners might enjoy?" The answer is that there is a dearth of new music from the record companies in a genre that is preferred by the 35-44 year old listeners. If it ain't Bruce or Celine or U2, it faces long odds against getting any support from the record companies. And, 35-44 year old listeners are just not interested in rap, metal, and a lot of what they call "crap" played on K-Rock and other "New Rock" stations.

Dave Matthews and John Mayer do attract listeners in that age group. Why? Because the type of music they play is more similar to the type of music that age group grew up with. It's not much of a stretch from R.E.M. to Dave Matthews to John Mayer. It's a big stretch to Korn.

Radio stations have fragmented in an attempt to super-serve a selected audience. You're unlikely to Kanye West on K-Rock, or Korn on Hot. Stations have to make a choice to be one thing at a time, or they end up being nothing. I agree that the playlists get too narrow, which is why the "Jack" format made a splash until the novelty wore off. Generally, a "Jack" station in town prompted the other guys to widen their playlists a bit to everybody's advantage.

As far a country is concerned, there is a much slower pace to the changes in country music. Nashville purists constantly bemoan the "new" country sound, which is essentially the pop music of the last 40 years with an occaisional twang, yodel, fiddle, and/or slide guitar thrown in to earn the "country" label. It's interesting when new elements slide into the country genre, whether it's the "Outlaws" of Waylon, Willie, & Hank Jr., or Keith Urban adding what sounds suspiciously like rap to a "modern" country song.

In short, people in a particular age group identify with a particular type of "sound". Unfortunately, record companies are always looking for, and promoting, the "new" sound that "isn't like anything you've heard before." That takes a lot of older listeners out of their comfort zone.

 

[doctorcomputer3]

Try Television

Rox, if youre teaching radio 101. That explains a lot of things. This other guy that wishes he was Brian Ocean cant see past his nose either. Why dont y'all lighten the load on occasion.<P ID="signature">______________
(toll free) 1(866)899-9976</P>

 

[SirRoxalot]

Trying

> Rox, if youre teaching radio 101. That explains a lot of
> things. This other guy that wishes he was Brian Ocean cant
> see past his nose either. Why dont y'all lighten the load on
> occasion.
>
Well, we had an intelligent, if slightly contentious, discussion going on.

Now that we've had our moment of "comic" relief, maybe we can get back to that discussion.

 

[Radknowski]

Re: Thanks for Radio 101, but...

>
> Please be constructive. As much as I enjoy all the verbal
> sparring, I will not be putting my (BLEEP) in the ring.
>
> PS. No, this is not Brian Ocean, I promise!
>
Clearly you're not BO. Your posts are well-articulated and make sense.

The business is in a transition period, but there's so much money on the line that even the mediocre operators are getting their acts together and are well-aware that it's not only the monoliths that are the main predatory threat.

The jury is still out on XM and Sirius. iPods? A safer bet.

Watch out for what your cell phone may become.

 

[raydio1972]

Re: Trying

> Well, we had an intelligent, if slightly contentious,
> discussion going on.
>
> Now that we've had our moment of "comic" relief, maybe we
> can get back to that discussion.

exactly! with personal technology pacing so quickly, it's really not hard to imagine a world where "broad" casts as we know it are gone. sadly, if the 95 telecom act never happened, radio might have been able to weather this upcoming attack of other choices. now, all of these big companies are looking at future losses and trying to find answers. hold on to you hats.

 

[still_around]

BHOF...

> Rox, if youre teaching radio 101. That explains a lot of
> things. This other guy that wishes he was Brian Ocean cant
> see past his nose either. Why dont y'all lighten the load on
> occasion.

Brian O... I left that disclaimer so no one would think I was you. Don't confuse the attention with admiration. I know all about you. All the time you so proudly spent in "Da Clubs"- I know all about it... I was there with Mark H., Joe A., Mike L., etc. You Won't know me because you are not someone I care to know, you f'in wingnut. There's a reason why you're in the back room @ The Wiz or Best Buy or whatever $8/Hr job you're on the verge of losing. You're a wannabe that never was. Trying to justify talent you never had. MOVE ON, your holding up traffic.

 

[still_around]

Ok, a better angle...

> > Can some explain to me the reason two out of three rock
> > stations in this market have regressed to stagnant 80's
> > records again...
> >
> > WTF?
>
> Because 35-49's grew up on stagnant '80s records and listen
> to the stations that play them. If you're after the $$$$,
> you need the 35-49's.
>
> 12-24's listen to their iPods, satellite, or computer
> streams. 25-34's don't have as much money to spend, so
> advertisers don't covet them as much as those people who are
> making decent money, and have to spend it as they buy
> houses, furnish them, and buy stuff for their kids.
>
> Welcome to Radio 101. Thanks for your question.

Ok, I get that as well. Maybe a better question is why only play a small (staganant) few. More Than A Feeling, Tom Sawyer, the same 3 Led Zep songs, etc. There has to be a market survey somewhere showing some kind of burn with types of songs.

I say broaden the genre. Rotate less. Go a little deeper. Keep 'em wondering (hooked) what song you may play next that thay may not have heard in a while. How 'bout bands like Whitesnake, Cinderella, Journey, deeper Def Lep, deeper Bon Jovi (he's huge right now), Scorps, and the ever favorite Metallica (nights).

That's classic rock for the 21st century. No Doors, Foghat, Led Zep., etc. That's a whole new format... Old Fart Rock!

 

[still_around]

Where's Biggus

> > Well, we had an intelligent, if slightly contentious,
> > discussion going on.
> >
> > Now that we've had our moment of "comic" relief, maybe we
> > can get back to that discussion.
>
> exactly!

I was hoping for some serious input from the resident orator...

 

[SirRoxalot]

25-34? 35-44? 45-54?

> I say broaden the genre. Rotate less. Go a little deeper.
> Keep 'em wondering (hooked) what song you may play next that
> thay may not have heard in a while. How 'bout bands like
> Whitesnake, Cinderella, Journey, deeper Def Lep, deeper Bon
> Jovi (he's huge right now), Scorps, and the ever favorite
> Metallica (nights).
>
> That's classic rock for the 21st century. No Doors, Foghat,
> Led Zep., etc. That's a whole new format... Old Fart Rock!

We Old Farts prefer the term "Dinosaur Rock".

That said, you absolutely have a point. One of the concerns of "Classic" Rock stations is the aging of their audience. Trying to serve 25-54 is really an impossible stretch. Some people on the low end of the demographic - particularly women - would prefer to REALLY "Get the Led Out" - as in "I don't care if I EVER hear Stairway again". On the other hand, those same listeners are really into Journey, a band that generally leaves your Pink Floyd fan yawning and looking for the door.

There are two options. Somebody needs to skew toward the lower end of the demo (ARE YOU LISTENING 95X?), while somebody else skews toward the older end.

There are a number of Classic Rock stations trying to transition toward a younger (25-34) audience. Q107 in Toronto feature "Hair Bands" on Saturday nights. Since they're Canadian, you can listen live on the web. Generally, putting together a particular genre in a "special" show is a way of introducing new or different music to your audience. If the show generates a lot of "buzz" (radio translation - "revenue"), you can start introducing some of that music into your mainstream.

You would think that a smaller market that has fewer stations would be the place to develop broader and/or deeper music formats since there are fewer choices. Unfortunately, what we're getting are corporations and consultants who are piping in the narrow formats that get an almighty 4 share in larger markets. Then they complain when that format gets a 4 share in Syracuse. Go figure.

 

[Scott_Petibone]

Re: Here's the answer

> You want to know what happened to the 18-34 demo for males
> in Syracuse?? Here's your answer. Go to Big Shots Nighclub
> on a weekend. I'm serious. Go there and look around. This
> is a COUNTRY bar now. They play nothing but classic rock
> and country music... and the joint is PACKED. This bar is
> filled to the rafters with 21-35 year olds who KNOW this
> music. Country and classic rock has filled the gaps left by
> an awful rock arena. Theres ipods, mp3 players, cd burners,
> and other options. 95X, Dog, and TK are right on the mark
> w/ their objectives. I think K-Rock will suffer some, they
> will come out in force on this board and bash me but they
> know its true. They thrive on the kids 12-20 who are
> looking for their identity and need to hear some tunes...
> but that segment of the population is going away at a
> lightning pace. These are your hardcore online gamers,
> music downloaders, and technologically advanced demo. There
> is no money in this demo. You can sell all the hydroponic
> shops and bowling alleys you want packages on KRL but the
> fact is without comboing TK and Krock, you wouldn't have 2
> commercials on that station and you know it. TK is doing
> great right now, X will rebound with this new format shift.
> If ANYONE was smart, Citadel or Galaxy they would rival B104
> and possibly skew younger in the country demo, not older
> like that failure Galaxy does. Look at the country
> landscape. The age of the artists, the people at the shows,
> the people buying the records, the people at Big Shots
> singing along to Dierks Bentley and Montgomery Gentry...
> Theres your money demos for the next 10 years and exactly
> where Syracuse radio is missing their mark.
>

I'm not going to bash you because I think that you're observation has merit. Obviously I disagree with your skew on K-Rock. I can't see K-Rock suffering now that both it's competitors left the field of play. The 12-34 grouping will always need to hear what new stuff to download. It's easy to say Country is king because of B's stature. Nobody will say that if they get a direct competitor. A direct competitor always blow up the cume. Ask Abby. X will not rebound with this shift because it's not done well. It's done half-assed by those in house who can't even master basic programming mechanics much like the Dog. Country is in for it's problems. Their artists are becoming less fan friendly and more "hip hoppy". Radio always deal with distractions in the cume, in the end, it's understanding how the audience uses you or wants to use you and how you can fit better in their lives and adjusting your expectations to fit.

 

[SirRoxalot]

Elm Street Reaches Ocean?

> I know all about you. All the time you so proudly spent
> in "Da Clubs"- I know all about it... I was there with
> Mark H., Joe A., Mike L., etc. You Won't know me because
> you are not someone I care to know, you f'in wingnut.

> You're a wannabe that never was. Trying to justify talent
> you never had. MOVE ON, your holding up traffic.

Ouch.

B.O., you've just met the board's new Freddy Krueger.

Sliced and diced.

 

[godless]

Re: Here's the answer

> > You want to know what happened to the 18-34 demo for males
>
> > in Syracuse?? Here's your answer. Go to Big Shots
> Nighclub
> > on a weekend. I'm serious. Go there and look around.
> This
> > is a COUNTRY bar now. They play nothing but classic rock
> > and country music... and the joint is PACKED. This bar is
>
> > filled to the rafters with 21-35 year olds who KNOW this
> > music. Country and classic rock has filled the gaps left
> by
> > an awful rock arena. Theres ipods, mp3 players, cd
> burners,
> > and other options. 95X, Dog, and TK are right on the mark
>
> > w/ their objectives. I think K-Rock will suffer some,
> they
> > will come out in force on this board and bash me but they
> > know its true. They thrive on the kids 12-20 who are
> > looking for their identity and need to hear some tunes...
> > but that segment of the population is going away at a
> > lightning pace. These are your hardcore online gamers,
> > music downloaders, and technologically advanced demo.
> There
> > is no money in this demo. You can sell all the hydroponic
>
> > shops and bowling alleys you want packages on KRL but the
> > fact is without comboing TK and Krock, you wouldn't have 2
>
> > commercials on that station and you know it. TK is doing
> > great right now, X will rebound with this new format
> shift.
> > If ANYONE was smart, Citadel or Galaxy they would rival
> B104
> > and possibly skew younger in the country demo, not older
> > like that failure Galaxy does. Look at the country
> > landscape. The age of the artists, the people at the
> shows,
> > the people buying the records, the people at Big Shots
> > singing along to Dierks Bentley and Montgomery Gentry...
> > Theres your money demos for the next 10 years and exactly
> > where Syracuse radio is missing their mark.
> >
>
> I'm not going to bash you because I think that you're
> observation has merit. Obviously I disagree with your skew
> on K-Rock. I can't see K-Rock suffering now that both it's
> competitors left the field of play. The 12-34 grouping will
> always need to hear what new stuff to download. It's easy to
> say Country is king because of B's stature. Nobody will say
> that if they get a direct competitor. A direct competitor
> always blow up the cume. Ask Abby. X will not rebound with
> this shift because it's not done well. It's done half-assed
> by those in house who can't even master basic programming
> mechanics much like the Dog. Country is in for it's
> problems. Their artists are becoming less fan friendly and
> more "hip hoppy". Radio always deal with distractions in the
> cume, in the end, it's understanding how the audience uses
> you or wants to use you and how you can fit better in their
> lives and adjusting your expectations to fit.
> Well,Bone must have taken his 'smart pills" this morning.
X would have a "5" share as a country station and would expose B as the fraud that it is.The fact that they have a new voice guy and are playing more Led Zep than they used to,who cares.It's a bandaid on a head wound.As a country station,look out.They cover Oswego great which you have to do.

 

[still_around]

Can I get a witness....

> > I say broaden the genre. Rotate less. Go a little deeper.
> > Keep 'em wondering (hooked) what song you may play next
> that
> > thay may not have heard in a while. How 'bout bands like
> > Whitesnake, Cinderella, Journey, deeper Def Lep, deeper
> Bon
> > Jovi (he's huge right now), Scorps, and the ever favorite
> > Metallica (nights).
> >
> > That's classic rock for the 21st century. No Doors,
> Foghat,
> > Led Zep., etc. That's a whole new format... Old Fart Rock!
>
>
>>>>>> We Old Farts prefer the term "Dinosaur Rock".
>
> That said, you absolutely have a point. One of the concerns
> of "Classic" Rock stations is the aging of their audience.
> Trying to serve 25-54 is really an impossible stretch. Some
> people on the low end of the demographic - particularly
> women - would prefer to REALLY "Get the Led Out" - as in "I
> don't care if I EVER hear Stairway again". On the other
> hand, those same listeners are really into Journey, a band
> that generally leaves your Pink Floyd fan yawning and
> looking for the door.
>
> There are two options. Somebody needs to skew toward the
> lower end of the demo (ARE YOU LISTENING 95X?), while
> somebody else skews toward the older end.
>
> There are a number of Classic Rock stations trying to
> transition toward a younger (25-34) audience. Q107 in
> Toronto feature "Hair Bands" on Saturday nights. Since
> they're Canadian, you can listen live on the web. Generally,
> putting together a particular genre in a "special" show is a
> way of introducing new or different music to your audience.
> If the show generates a lot of "buzz" (radio translation -
> "revenue"), you can start introducing some of that music
> into your mainstream.
>
> You would think that a smaller market that has fewer
> stations would be the place to develop broader and/or deeper
> music formats since there are fewer choices. Unfortunately,
> what we're getting are corporations and consultants who are
> piping in the narrow formats that get an almighty 4 share in
> larger markets. Then they complain when that format gets a 4
> share in Syracuse. Go figure.

My point exactly. A consultant halfway across the country has no idea what's happening in the 'Cuse. Nor does he have a feel on the culture or traditions of CNY. Think about it. How many PD's in CNY are from this area originally. I can't think of one. There isn't one PD in Syracuse that is in touch with Syracuse Night Life. Other than going to a sponsors establiment to get wasted (probably for free). It's all theory. Based on what the "other guy" is/isn't doing. Look at "The Dog". I think they've had at least 4 positioner changes in 3 years. They started going after KROCK mostly and as of late it's a contest to who can spin more Floyd/Led Zep/Doors with "X".

I see most of you read the article about "Daisy Dukes" in the POST. Where is the owner from? ROCHESTER. Country bars are a nice novelty. The owner even admits that in the article. The bull is a great idea. They simply DO NOT LAST. Anybody ever been to the Country Club on country night.... Right! There is no country night anymore because; a) line dancing was a fad; and b) rednecks don't spend any money unless yur schleppin' 50 cent drafts at the firehall. That is NOT perception that is a fact. Nothing against our Rochester friend, I hope all goes well. My apologies to you rednecks as well!

You can have all your homework done and be the star quarterack. But if you don't have a date to the prom, yur not gonna get laid.

FOR THE VERBALLY HANDICAPPED; All the research and promotion in the world isn't worth didley if you don't know how to capture your audience, get in bed with them and lay the pipe!

Can I get a witness in heaaaaar!

 

[raydio1972]

Re: Can I get a witness....

damn, this syracuse board is tight. the more i look at it, the more i feel like syracuse is the place rock and roll forgot. a upstate entertainment flyover, if you will. not that syracuse is alone. most major label rock juniors are pulling 40 date tours in only the largest metros, forgoing paying their dues on wednesday nights in small cities. cause or effect, there tends to be a void in 2nd tier cities when it comes to clubs and promoters able to handle, lets say, a "my morning jacket", "killers", or even most of the sub-modern bands like "clap your hands say yeah" that would have played 150 dates a year in the mid-90's. now it's la, phoenix, dallas, chicago, etc.

blame it on clear channel/ticketmaster. blame it on record labels looking for "sure thing" ticket sales. blame it on bands that don't realize that fanbases are built on yearlong tours in vans, not showcases and festival shows.