Take the simulated HD radio test drive?

[pocket-radio]

Take the simulated HD radio test drive.

Talk about dirty rotten lies. Listen to their simulated comparisons of Am/Fm and their supposed HD sound. To be honest my 7 year old $12.00 mono clock radio sounds better than their simulated sound of Am/Fm. And their simulated HD sound really sucks. listen for below..

http://www.hdradio.com/how_does_hd_digital_radio_sound.php

What a big joke.

Something is wrong when they have to degrade the sound of Am/Fm on purpose to make their system sound better. My GM factory radio sounds just a good.
Do they really think we’re that stupid? I guess so!

The real kicker is you can't actually hear a live radio in any store before taking it home and going through all the trouble

 

[Tom Wells]

I hate bad simulations, and always have.
When you want to make something sound like an AM radio, USE an AM radio.
When you want something to sound like a telephone, USE a TELEPHONE.

And then to have the "AM classic" simulation be nothing more than someone pulled a few sliders on an eq?

These people don't know when to stop. Please ibiquity, you're making a collective a** of yourselves.
Why doesn't the AM classic simulation have the hissing like it sounds in real life with hybrid operation? Too real?

This may work on the extremely gullible, but most people already know AM doesn't sound like that,
and the simulation doesn't even make the HD FM sound zingy and zizzly like the actual product.

So just what about the the simulation is anything like the actual product?

Why bother at all if you're going to do a poor job or misrepresent the product?

 

[KB1OKL]

Haha! Notice on classic AM their is no bottom, no bass, it sounds like a telephone? Now that is a load of you know what. I'm listening right now on my Meduci AMX-2000 tuner with a C crane twin coil ferrite antenna and nothing could be further than the truth. This thing sounds good. AM radio has always had bottom on any radio that had decent speakers like in cars, the Meduci also has a nice clear top end.
When I checked out AM-HD in the store the sound was very clear, in fact it was so clear I heard nothing at all. ;D Of course the salesmen wouldn't hook up one of the supplied loops, now if AM-HD sounded so wonderful like that completely faked simulation, why wasn't it hooked up in the store and why was the one with the radio missing? This was with a highly rated Sangien BTW and I was less than 20 miles form WBZ the blowtorch that's killing half of the East Coast from 1015 through 1045 with IBOC noise.

 

[OKCRadioGuy]

LOL! Somehow I have to come up with some kind of ho-haw to sell these corporate fools that own radio stations like HD. Think of the MILLIONS of dollars that have been spent for something so incredibly broken (AM-HD) beyond repair, ever. AM HD is FUBAR. That's F#*@ed Up Beyond Any Repair (EVER)!

 

[Carmine5]

This test drive of HD Radio is an amusing head scratcher.

They start out with the 'CD-quality' radio tout, which is a kind of dishonest shorthand to sell Joe SixPack on HD Radio. "It's like hearing a CD." We know it isn't (and Ibiquity knows it isn't) but Joe SixPack doesn't.

Then at the bottom comes the disclaimer that what you're hearing doesn't truly represent HD Radio. So even as a demo we're still not hearing what HD Radio actually sounds like.

The only thing true here is when they flash the words, "You need to buy a new radio." I'm sure Mr. SixPack, who is struggling with a mortgage and putting food on the table, is going to rush out and buy one (well, he just might if he wants to hear the games on AM. Of course, he'll have a hard time getting HD-AM but that's another story).

The whole thing is lame. But not nearly so as that scheme to demo HD Radio in a store using analog FM transmitters. BTW, I haven't heard any more about that idea.

I guess even Ibiquity ultimately thought that was lame.

C5

 

[Mike Walker]

The thing is, many AM radios these days have no bottom. Now I understand the hf rolloff...one can actually make a case that limited bandwidth "on top" caused by narrow if filters reduces noise and interference. But there's absolutely no reason AM's low frequency response can't be fully extended, as it is on good radio!

(My biggest gripe abotu C-Quam AM Stereo was the steep rolloff below 50hz. Well, that plus "platform motion" in critical hours and at night. And of course in broad daylight, more than 15-20 miles from the tower. C-Quam left the tower pristine, and then really fell apart as atmospheric/environmental conditions randomly shifted the phase relationship between carrier and sidebands).

 

[JohnnyElectron]

Why don't they compare it to this AM: http://www.fanfarefm.com/soundbites.html

That's AM, and it had a 7.5KHz filter in that tuner; the Sony's that went all the way out to 10.2KHz were even better. It was received with a Radio Shack loop, which probably even lowered the bandwidth a little bit.

Mike, the 3rd generation CQuam chips eliminated platform motion, and had a gradual fade-to-mono, just like analog FM.

I listened to WJR's Tiger games in stereo 60 miles out with superb separation too.
Don't underestimate how good analog AM CAN sound.

 

[Mike Walker]

JohnnyElectron, I've worked at numerous AM Stereo stations, and am still a fan of the technology. But with respect, "blending to mono" is not a solution to platform motion. It's MONO! Platform motion occurs on signals, and at places where the audio is otherwise quite listenable. Switching to mono isn't a solution! You shouldn't have to switch (or blend) to mono within twenty miles of the tower at mid-day!

But that, plus the LF rolloff are my only objections to C-Quam. I believed at the time, and still do, that C-Quam produces a much cleaner stereo signal than the other systems. It's just that with increasing distance, mother nature beats the crap out of that signal! Still C-Quam is great for AM. If I owned an AM station, it would be C-Quam to take advantage of all the "new AM Stereo" (read HD) radios out there...the vast majority of which receive C-Quam!

I'm not anti-C-Quam, just pointing out that it does have some obvious limitations. Then so did Kahn (limited separation...none at high frequencies, and limited high frequency extension). Magnavox worked well, but the only station I ever heard it on was WOWO in Fort Wayne!

 

[Carmine5]

The whole thing is lame. But not nearly so as that scheme to demo HD Radio in a store using analog FM transmitters. BTW, I haven't heard any more about that idea.

I guess even Ibiquity ultimately thought that was lame.

C5

Well, I was wrong. Went into my local Circuit City yesterday to look at cell phones and, in the process, checked out the radio display. They had two Sony HD Radios with marked down prices.

One said: "To hear what HD Radio sounds like tune to 88.1". That is the selected channel for these in-store transmitters. The program was an A/B comparison of HD Radio...but in analog.

I guess no idea is too lame for Ibiquity and the Alliance after all.

C5

 

[KB1OKL]

Well they probably know that most people can't tell the difference anyway and also know that unless you're parked under the transmitter they're not going to work. At least this way they can scam a few people into thinking that these things actually work. :

 

[clouseau]

Well they probably know that ....<snip> unless you're parked under the transmitter they're not going to work.

You can continue to post your "Dude-esque" lies, Bob, but that's all they are. PURE BS.

As long as you keep posting your "Under the transmitter" garbage, you're just lying. Anyone with more sense than a toadstool knows this. So do you, I suspect.

Smaller range than analog? Definitely.

"...unless you're parked under the transmitter they're not going to work" ? Geriatric, DXer, Ham Radio, Massachusettes, nonesense. AGAIN!

It is beyond me how iBiquity is slammed for falsehoods when absolute LIES like this go unchallenged. This forum is littered with posts of 30-40-50-even 90 mile AMHD reception. But YOU, far away from any AM HD station as I recall, have the facts... RIGHT.

Your "Under the transmitter" assertion is just more of your absolute JUNK science. YOU MADE IT UP. There's enough reason not to like this system as it is. Why you and a few others feel the need to fabricate untrue drivel is undoubtedly beyond almost anyone's comprehension. People like Bob Savage can't get their complaints taken seriously based on IDOICY like you just posted.

It makes everyone who shares your point of view at all, look like a kook.

Or a reactionary...

Or a juvenile...

Just food for thought,

Clouseau...

 

[KB1OKL]

Well they probably know that ....<snip> unless you're parked under the transmitter they're not going to work.

You can continue to post your "Dude-esque" lies, Bob, but that's all they are. PURE BS.

As long as you keep posting your "Under the transmitter" garbage, you're just lying. Anyone with more sense than a toadstool knows this. So do you, I suspect.

Smaller range than analog? Definitely.

"...unless you're parked under the transmitter they're not going to work" ? Geriatric, DXer, Ham Radio, Massachusettes, nonesense. AGAIN!

It is beyond me how iBiquity is slammed for falsehoods when absolute LIES like this go unchallenged. This forum is littered with posts of 30-40-50-even 90 mile AMHD reception. But YOU, far away from any AM HD station as I recall, have the facts... RIGHT.

Your "Under the transmitter" assertion is just more of your absolute JUNK science. YOU MADE IT UP. There's enough reason not to like this system as it is. Why you and a few others feel the need to fabricate untrue drivel is undoubtedly beyond almost anyone's comprehension. People like Bob Savage can't get their complaints taken seriously based on IDOICY like you just posted.

It makes everyone who shares your point of view at all, look like a kook.

Or a reactionary...

Or a juvenile...

Just food for thought,

Clouseau...

Getting a little testy again, there Inspector? You guys just have to attack people's character, right? I guess that's because you know we're largely right even though we inject humor and exaggeration into many of our posts, although I understand humor might be the last thing an IBOC pusher would want right now with the current state or should I say non-state of HD radio's roll out.
Incidentally did you read the thread entitled "The timing was impeccable"? 12 miles from the transmitter, I would say metaphorically that's like parking under the transmitter, wouldn't you?

 

[KB1OKL]

Your "Under the transmitter" assertion is just more of your absolute JUNK science. YOU MADE IT UP.

Clouseau...

I happen to know an engineer who installs transmitter for a living and who will remain unnamed of course who installed IBOC and the station couldn't decode the IBOC at their main studio, now that's idiocy as I see it. See it can be done without name calling or insults. You might want to try that Inspector before you personally attack posters with whom you disagree with.

I live approx 10 miles from three or four IBOC transmitters and 40 -50 miles from many more.

Your 30 mile receptions and beyond are not your average IBOC reception, those are usually done be experienced DX'ers with good equipment and a lot of antenna know how and you know it. and 12 mile drop outs are the norm see "The timing was impeccable"

 

[JohnnyElectron]

If you go to the ECFS section of the FCC website, under the 99-325 proceedings, you'll a "Motion to Dismiss" the whole HD mess a long time ago, calling it "Not yet ready for primetime" - that would still be an accurate description 3-4 years later....to bad the FCC never listens to regular people over the lobby people.

 

[clouseau]

Getting a little testy again, there Inspector? You guys just have to attack people's character, right?

Not at all, Bob. I attacked your made up statement. If your posting of factual incorrectness, intentionally is a character attack, then maybe so. I call it a lie. What do you call it?

I guess that's because you know we're largely right even though we inject humor and exaggeration into many of our posts, although I understand humor might be the last thing an IBOC pusher would want right now with the current state or should I say non-state of HD radio's roll out.

Oh, NOW I understand. Your "Under the tower" is humor, and Ibiquity's "CD quality" is a lie. YOUR precise "exaggeration" is humor. Their loose use of CD quality is a lie.

Incidentally did you read the thread entitled "The timing was impeccable"? 12 miles from the transmitter, I would say metaphorically that's like parking under the transmitter, wouldn't you?

Yes I did. Along with virtually every word posted in this forum for the last 2 years or so.

Assuming those numbers are correct, that indicates a signal level of basically 80 dBu. (79.294 Actually)at the locale with an external antenna.

With the associated signal reduction on the HD, it's pretty clear this is an anomoly. Under these specifications, if the HD power is 1% of the analog, the HD signal should be 59.294 dBu. This is still within the ANALOG protected contour for a "B". (Much less digital). Are you telling us HD does not work at the 80 dbu analog contour?

Now I'm sure you worship at the alter of "Failed digital reception". Congrats, you found an instance of a time when subcarrier reception didn't work at 12.5 miles with a theoretical 80 dbu signal.

I personally have experienced a complete destruction of the SCA channels from co- Channel skip where the analog signal is predicted to be 97.462 dBu. Propagation is fluid, not a constant. As a general Class amateur, you should know this. I suspect you do.

"Metaphorically" your statements are a lot like a clock that runs backwards at 3 times regular speed. Many times a day you might be right, but who the heck can tell what you're saying. And a lot of the time you're wrong.

You seemed to miss my entire point with BOTH of your replies to what I said. And that's...

When you post foolishness, you look foolish. There are plenty of reasons NOT to like this system. Why you choose to embrace the "Court Jester" method of discourse is beyond me. And apparently beyond the FCC. That's why your position is being ignored. Because the vast majority of opposition to this system is nonesense. Some is VERY VALID. But just like the SCR dimmers and LED lights, posts like you make, raise the overall noise floor and block legitimate reception. You're being branded as nut balls because you don't make any sense most of the time. Frankly, It looks to me like the best spokesman for the against side is from Canada. That probably doesn't work all that well at the FCC either.

If you view this a "Character attack" well, OK. But I'm not attacking your character. I'm attacking EXACTLY WHAT YOU POST.

I guess we're to believe HD doesn't work in less than an 80 dBu environment?

Oh wait, I guess that a character attack.

May I suggest you actually post what you mean? Some of us "Good Old Boys" ain't all that up to speed on them there metaphore thingys....

Besides, ain't a metaphore one of them things you wind up that goes tick - tock when you're playin' a Piano?

Clouseau

 

[KB1OKL]

Just for you Inspector I will try to be very precise in my future posts, just that I am very positive that anyone here besides you already knows that my "Under the transmitter" lines are humor and slight exaggeration and I'm sure that you know too. I do believe that the 20 mile and beyond IBOC receptions are the exception instead of the rule and are usually reported by experienced DX'ers, hams, engineers and radio people in general. I doubt very much that Joe Sixpack who these receivers are aimed at can get anyway near that kind of reception. Incidentally I have a 50KW daytime, 10 KW at night station approx 10 miles from me, WCRN 830 and it absolutely kills me here, it has never faded like IBOC does at 12 miles. In fact I had a phaser which this station used to overload every night no matter how low I set the gain, I had to get rid of it. I don't know how much signal it puts into my antennas but i have to shut off the AGC and turn the RF gain almost down to zero on my R-390A to even phase it out it's so steady and powerful here.
Right now I'm listening to CHWO 740 with a Meduci AMX-2000 receiver and a C Crane Twin Coil Ferrite antenna and reception has been very clear with propagation very good generally except for a few quick fades. The fidelity is exceptional too. I don't know how high their frequency response is but it sounds good, nice sibilant highs and there not artificially recreated.

 

[SUPERCASTER]

clouseau said:

I guess we're to believe HD doesn't work in less than an 80 dBu environment?

Yes. Often true!
Just try listening to HD radio at almost any Radio Shack, Best Buy, Circuit City, or other store that may still carry HD Radios. This proves that HD radio does not work even within plain sight of the broadcasting towers, and has been reported right here, many times. The analog comes in, but the HD signal often does not.

Claims that only the stores carrying HD radios use some exclusive (proprietary?) faraday cage building construction methods not used elsewhere, and that only these HD radio stocking stores contain other electronic equipment (that no one else has?) that interferes with HD radio is just another silly HD radio peddler's red herring.

Many homes and workplaces have similar or same construction as these HD radio stores, have lots of other electronic equipment there or nearby, and get similar poor, spotty or non-existent HD radio reception, even near the HD radio broadcasting towers.

HD Radio's claims that HD is immune from interference and spotty reception is a lie.

 

[fybush]

Claims that only the stores carrying HD radios use some exclusive (proprietary?) faraday cage building construction methods not used elsewhere, and that only these HD radio stocking stores contain other electronic equipment (that no one else has?) that interferes with HD radio is just another silly HD radio peddler's red herring.

Uh, Supe?

We just recently heard here from my good friend Bob Savage, who told us about his experiences trying to tune in his own station's analog signal at a nearby Best Buy (or was it Circuit City or Radio Shack?)

He tells us (and I believe him completely, as I know him to be an honest observer) that while he could tune in his own WYSL, blasting the equivalent of 50 kW up I-390 from just ten miles to the south, and while he could also tune in WHAM 1180 (50 kW ND, about three miles to the west) and WHIC 1460 (3700 watts ND, within sight of the mall), he could NOT get clean signals - ANALOG signals, mind you - on three other AMs within spitting distance: WROC 950 (1 kW DA, about a mile to the NE), WXXI 1370 (5 kW ND, about 2 miles NE) and WHTK 1280 (5 kW ND, across the street from WXXI.)

It's my experience (and I think Counselor Savage would concur) that any of those signals would blow the front end off a radio in the parking lot outside those big-box stores in Henrietta. (Well, maybe not 950, but that's another story entirely.)

None of which proves or disproves much of anything else about home reception - just making the observation that in the typical big-box environment, providing a live demo of ANY KIND of device that requires external RF reception, whether it be an analog radio, HD radio, satellite radio, DTV, or even mobile phones, often requires some assistance in the form of an external antenna. Ask me how often my cell reception goes down to zilch in the middle of Sam's Club...

 

[Tom Wells]

I noticed the noise/shielding effect of retail buildings on radio performance and learned to take it into account in judging radios
as a wee lad back in the 60's.

It's only maybe a little worse since then. There were no computers, but there were flourescent lights and TVs nearby.

However, even with the interference, it was easy with analog radios (on AM) to tell which radios were "hot", and which were not.
Even back then, only the "larger" AMs made it into retail outlets, unless they happened to put the radio displays near a window
which was pretty common. Maybe they actually cared to make them work as well as possible.

 

[rwagoner]

The Radio Shacks near me all receive HD in the store, both AM and FM. One uses the FM HD to feed the other stereos in the store.

clouseau said:

I guess we're to believe HD doesn't work in less than an 80 dBu environment?

Yes. Often true!
Just try listening to HD radio at almost any Radio Shack, Best Buy, Circuit City, or other store that may still carry HD Radios. This proves that HD radio does not work even within plain sight of the broadcasting towers, and has been reported right here, many times. The analog comes in, but the HD signal often does not.

Claims that only the stores carrying HD radios use some exclusive (proprietary?) faraday cage building construction methods not used elsewhere, and that only these HD radio stocking stores contain other electronic equipment (that no one else has?) that interferes with HD radio is just another silly HD radio peddler's red herring.

Many homes and workplaces have similar or same construction as these HD radio stores, have lots of other electronic equipment there or nearby, and get similar poor, spotty or non-existent HD radio reception, even near the HD radio broadcasting towers.

HD Radio's claims that HD is immune from interference and spotty reception is a lie.