Take the simulated HD radio test drive?

[Savage]

Concur, Scottso. In the car-radio section at the BB Henrietta where I found the HD car radio which got 1040, 1180 and 1460 but nothing else AM, there was a curious phenomenon. While that and another radio I tried sought-and-scanned fine, other radios just went into "perpetual scan mode" stopping at nothing either AM or FM, HD or analog.

So apparently either a number of the other radios weren't connected to an external antenna or there was an RF input switcher of some kind like the "speaker shopping selector" at the display (although no Dow-Key RF contactor was in evidence!)

The bookshelf, boombox and other pure-radio radios in the store picked up zilch, as one would expect.

 

[KB1OKL]

The Radio Shacks near me all receive HD in the store, both AM and FM. One uses the FM HD to feed the other stereos in the store.

"One uses the FM HD to feed the other stereos in the store."

What is the FM HD you are talking about? Could you explain that statement a little more clearly?

None of the radio Shacks near me has any HD receivers incidentally.

 

[Play Freebird]

Back when my local Radio Shack had an Accurian HD on display, an XM mobile receiver was feeding it, along with several other FM radios in the store. This would make sense, because the XM receiver has a "Part 15" FM modulator.

The "salemaker" behind the counter told me this was the corporate policy in cases where no local station could be received in digital.

I was never able to find one Radio Shack store here in Chester County, PA that could decode any AM or FM digital signal. Even the West Goshen Plaza store failed to receive the HD channels of WSTW in Wilmington, a 50 kW station less than 12 miles away over an unobstructed path.

 

[JJS]

Back when my local Radio Shack had an Accurian HD on display, an XM mobile receiver was feeding it, along with several other FM radios in the store. This would make sense, because the XM receiver has a "Part 15" FM modulator.

The "salemaker" behind the counter told me this was the corporate policy in cases where no local station could be received in digital.

Hmm, the Shack was using XM content and analog delivery to demonstrate HD-R? I wouldn't put this fraudulence past them, but RS has been, pre-merger, a Sirius shop.

 

[4dude]

To be honest my 7 year old $12.00 mono clock radio sounds better than their simulated sound of Am/Fm. And their simulated HD sound really sucks

I agree its garbage,they are just trying to push this crap.....

My opinion is: GET THIS CRAP OFF OUR ANALOG BANDS!!

 

[Play Freebird]

Hmm, the Shack was using XM content and analog delivery to demonstrate HD-R? I wouldn't put this fraudulence past them, but RS has been, pre-merger, a Sirius shop.

[/quote]

It may have been Sirius -- I don't subscribe to either and sometimes get their programming confused -- but the source of audio playing on the HD Radio was definitely the satellite receiver's modulator.

And the store even had their big red card set up next to the display model, listing all of the Philadelphia HD-2 channels -- none of which could be received there.

 

[clouseau]

clouseau said:

I guess we're to believe HD doesn't work in less than an 80 dBu environment?

Yes. Often true!
Just try listening to HD radio at almost any Radio Shack, Best Buy, Circuit City, or other store that may still carry HD Radios...

Sup,

Rarely have you demonstrated your level of understanding regarding signal strength more clearly than with that statement.

It's almost like this is the poster child for the "Noise Floor" observation I made earlier.

Clouseau

 

[clone]

None of which proves or disproves much of anything else about home reception - just making the observation that in the typical big-box environment, providing a live demo of ANY KIND of device that requires external RF reception, whether it be an analog radio, HD radio, satellite radio, DTV, or even mobile phones, often requires some assistance in the form of an external antenna. Ask me how often my cell reception goes down to zilch in the middle of Sam's Club...

Why can't everyone be as level-headed as Mr. Fybush?  I sometimes consult for the cellular industry, and the same kind of arguments (believe it or not!) happen on cell forums with their professionals.  Everyone likes to argue whether or not provider X works reliably in location Y, and that provider X must be a bunch of idiots, because provider Z seems to be just fine there.

I would *almost* bet that there is another cell provider that is pumping -60dBm into the middle of that Sam's Club.  That doesn't mean that they have a better network, or that they are more reliable.  It just means that their cell site is probably in the parking lot.  Which proves nothing.

Now, HD doesn't work exactly the way it was supposed to.  We can all agree on this (many of us knew this!).  Hell, we all know that the analogs hardly ever punch through in a big-box store. But as professionals, we really need to ask ourselves what is the next step?  More power?  DRM?  What about FM?  What about all those lucky folks in NYC who have never had a problem with HD?

There is no way to take into account all the atomspheric, terrain, or interference-based issues of every single station, in every single state across the country.  Analog works, for the most part.  Digital can, too!  But there is no need to completely abandon the robust, reliable signals we are used to.  What needs to happen, is that everyone agree that sidebands may not be the way to go, and do some honest investigation of the issues.  And if that ultimately leads to a digital-only slice of spectrum being allocated, then lets do it!  It's not going to be a cash crop for corporate broadcasters, it's not going to save AM (or for that matter, FM).  What it will do is progress the technology of BROAD-casting to a new generation (who are currently stuck on PERSONAL-casting).  It may be past my lifetime before it happens, but for the sake of mass media, it needs to happen NOW!

And Scott, I have lots of old 80s TOHs to upload one day, if only there was a way to make boom-box recordings on "low-noise" tape sound better!  I wish I knew what a Nakamichi was when I was 8...

 

[KB1OKL]

Getting back to the point of this thread, HD radios are using FAKE signal sources whether it be satellite or analog sources or just plain fake recordings as on the iniquity website. HD does not work and iniquity knows this, this sort of stuff should be against the law.
At least if you go in and try out an analog radio it will work and pull in signals both AM and FM, but HD? Nada. This is about a company that has so little faith in it's own product that it resorts to fake signal sources and pretends it is HD, pretty damn pathetic in my opinion. It's like putting a blindfolded person into a Cadillac and telling them it's a Yugo and doesn't it ride just fine?
HD is dead whether anyone here wants to acknowledge it or not, the only people that are making out on the deal besides iniquity are the big boys and the NPR stations because they get 90% of the cost FREE either from NPR itself (what are they thinking??) and/or from their donors who I bet when they get wind of the fact that NPR is subsidizing a private for profit non-working monopoly they may not like it so much and stop donating as I have done.

 

[wkbam1690]

Getting back to the point of this thread, HD radios are using FAKE signal sources whether it be satellite or analog sources or just plain fake recordings as on the iniquity website. HD does not work and iniquity knows this, this sort of stuff should be against the law.

Doesn't the FTC have any regulations regarding how radio tuners are marketed? I know they have strict guidelines for rating the output power of amplifiers. It seems like this is a clear case of fraud.

 

[TheBigA]

Doesn't the FTC have any regulations regarding how radio tuners are marketed? I know they have strict guidelines for rating the output power of amplifiers. It seems like this is a clear case of fraud.

They're not talking about the tuners. They're talking about the comparison demo at the HD web site.

Come on, people! ANY comparison is always subject to the quality of the medium you're using. I was watching one of those home shopping channels try to sell HDTV, and it doesn't work there either. Why? Because the quality of THEIR picture is limited by the quality of MY picture. If I was using their demo as a guide, I'd stick with my good old tube TV. It looks the same.

Same with HD radio. If you're using a demo at a web site, it's probably a compressed mp3. That is not what HD will sound like. So they're doing a disservice to their own product with this demo. Then there's the issue of faking the comparatives. That's typical sales jive. But it's no way to do a real comparison.

I've been studying the DMCA, the law Congress passed ten years ago governing the use of music on the internet and satellite. The whole purpose of this law was based on the premise that people would be able to record CD-quality music off the radio, and wouldn't buy CDs any more. Any one who has listened to music on the internet or satellite KNOWS the quality ISN'T CD quality. It's compressed and shifted into something else. There is no signal noise, but there's other noise. Same with HD Radio. So the concerns the RIAA had ten years ago were unfounded. But here's the amazing thing: The public doesn't care! The quality may not be CD quality, but they don't care. My point is that CD quality isn't the issue here. The issue is trying to cram more stations on an already crowded dial. That's been the goal of Congress and the FCC for 25 years, and this system is simply the latest attempt to do that.

 

[TheBigA]

.... the NPR stations because they get 90% of the cost FREE either from NPR itself (what are they thinking??) and/or from their donors who I bet when they get wind of the fact that NPR is subsidizing a private for profit non-working monopoly they may not like it so much and stop donating as I have done.

Read this sentence again. It doesn't make sense. NPR is subsidizing a for-profit company? Really? Don't they kind of do that every day when they pay rent on their building? When they order supplies from the business store? When they play music from a huge international conglomerate? Come on! And their discounted fees are hardly subsidizing iBiquity when compared to the amount of money the for-profit companies pay.

The government subsidizes the defense industry. Just a handful of companies that get hundreds of billions of dollars to blow up civilians in foreign countries. I don't see a whole lot of anger about that. Where is the outrage? You think people will accept that but get angry about a couple million going to a radio company? Ha!

As I've pointed out many times, NPR is a program supplier. They have many more programs than there are NPR stations in most markets. That's frustrating for them, because they've got great shows, and their member stations don't want them to stream those shows on the internet. So what choice do they have? Find a way to double the number of NPR stations in a town, and HD Radio is the solution. You may not like it, but that's why they did it.

A lot of stations understand your concerns, and for that reason, they have held private fund-raisers aimed specifically at buying the HD equipment, and they've said so on the air. And I know a lot of these stations don't understand the point of this, and simply put their analog signal on the HD. It's stupid and a waste of time, but that's how it is.

Regarding your protest, I'm sure the station will miss your annual $50. I wonder if you still listen. If you do, then you're still supporting the station. You're just cheating them out of your usage fee. That's taking a service and not paying for it, which we call stealing. If you really are honest in your protest, you won't listen either.

 

[KB1OKL]

Getting back to the point of this thread, HD radios are using FAKE signal sources whether it be satellite or analog sources or just plain fake recordings as on the iniquity website. HD does not work and iniquity knows this, this sort of stuff should be against the law.

Doesn't the FTC have any regulations regarding how radio tuners are marketed? I know they have strict guidelines for rating the output power of amplifiers. It seems like this is a clear case of fraud.

Obviously not or they'd shut down this outright fraudulent sham. Reminds me of the 1200 watt boomboxes I see in Lima, Peru where my wife is from, I guess our lack of regulations concerning misrepresenting signal sources for tuners rivals Lima's disregard for output power of amplifiers.

 

[hipporadio]

The pro-“HD” contingent here continues to bath in self-invigorating waters, while they answer criticism by qualified contributors of "the technology" with baseless, personally-directed, and spiteful attacks... 'Sounds like a billboard for the penny-stock and financially-embarrassed corporate radio culture :

I make my [very-good] living in marketing consumer electronics products. Not only is “HD” a blow-out-the-butt, but radio as an industry is in serious challenge. So-called “professionals” should burn calories on matters far-more directed to their SURVIVAL [and maybe decent programming] than hurling baseless insults in this forum.

Just this Labor Day weekend, my 70-something Mom ‘n Dad took delivery of a Dodge Sebring convertible... Among all it’s niceties, it sported a six-inch trunk-mounted “duck-tail” radio antenna – obviously optimized FOR SAT RECEPTION... NO AM agility and very-poor FM reception – but all is “OK” because their was a free year of Sat radio!

Hey fellow radio guys... DEAL WITH IT! ...Or try too!

 

[pocket-radio]

Don’t you get it! HD is that last great grab for real estate, masked by broadcasters to be an alternative to satellite radio, that’s all it is! Meanwhile, Satellite is still bleeding internally. People who like radio are happy with what they have and nobody is asking for more.

People who want more choices have chosen personal media devices or satellite. Wifi Wimax or G3 are on the horizon as main stream media platforms. Addressable radio receivers/HD will also connect to the web via the new platforms, heck information could even be exchanged via satellite. Pull your head out of your towers. The tower game is over.

 

[TheBigA]

Wifi Wimax or G3 are on the horizon as main stream media platforms. Addressable radio receivers/HD will also connect to the web via the new platforms, heck information could even be exchanged via satellite. Pull your head out of your towers. The tower game is over.

By next year, there will be no music on the internet thanks to the RIAA's music-killing royalty. The only place to get free music will be those old towers. God Bless the NAB.

 

[TheBigA]

I make my [very-good] living in marketing consumer electronics products.

Yeah, you work in Sears.

If you have any starch in your shorts, you'll get the CEA to come up with some device that will make radio sexy again. It won't take much. Put flashing lights on it...the Koreans love flashing lights.

Personally, all it would take is a radio that allowed the owners to download songs off the radio. But then the RIAA would sue.

 

[Carmine5]

I make my [very-good] living in marketing consumer electronics products.

Put flashing lights on it...the Koreans love flashing lights.

More evidence of your distain for humanity, BigA? In this case a little racial stereotyping?

C5

 

[pocket-radio]

No free music on the internet thanks to the RIAA's music-killing royalty,
Meanwhile back at the bat cave, kids are downloading illegal music despite the efforts of the RIAA suing everybody. And that trends isn’t going away, it’s up despite suing its customers. The genie is out of the bottle..

 

[TheBigA]

More evidence of your distain for humanity, BigA? In this case a little racial stereotyping?

There was a time when people had a sense of humor.