Well I tried and tried to get HD radio to work good, but I dont think there is a chance I can get it to work in my area. I can get a clean stereo signal with just a dipole wired antenna on my analog radio, which on my HD it droped out constantly. I love the idea, but I dont like the fact it only covers the protected area. My place is in a mostly fringe area, but still listanable on my stations I like to get. I can get Houston good on analog. Maybe someday it will improve but untill then I cant use it.
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Taking time out on HD
- Thread starter jras20
- Start date
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Mike Walker
Guest
Two things would help. A decent antenna (Magnum Dynalab SR100 for indoor use...BETTER than a simple dipole, though only God knows why, or better still an outdoor antenna...what's REALLY needed for fringe reception), and spell check. 
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rbrucecarter5
Guest
jras20 said:
In Dallas, there are reports of reception problems as close as 10 to 12 miles out from the towers. The problem is - the metro area is 120 miles East to West and close to 60 miles North to South. So HD only covers a fraction of the area.
I suggest a good external yagi antenna like the APS-13. It is a monster, but has tons of gain.
rbrucecarter5 said:
I believe that, a friend of mine won a HD Radio at a party and he lived in the middle of downtown Dallas and he could only pick up 2 or 3 HD signals. I have a great FM outdoor antenna but I guess its really just for analog FM because I can pull in stations well over 120 miles with it without a amp on it. I just dont have the money right now to buy a new antenna I already have 3 outdoor antennas
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Radioman100
Guest
jras20 said:I believe that, a friend of mine won a HD Radio at a party and he lived in the middle of downtown Dallas and he could only pick up 2 or 3 HD signals. I have a great FM outdoor antenna but I guess its really just for analog FM because I can pull in stations well over 120 miles with it without a amp on it. I just dont have the money right now to buy a new antenna I already have 3 outdoor antennas
Did he bother connecting ANY type of antenna? The last time I was in downtown Dallas, I had NO trouble receiving every HD FM the market has with a simple wire antenna, not even a dipole.
Here is what I dont understand, here at my place near Austin, I can pull in San antonio HD signals fair when they are working, hardly no drop outs, which this place is about 60 miles away from San antonio, and my place is about 84 miles to the transmitters from Houston and I can only pull in 2 HD signals most of the time down there. Are some HD Stations configed better than others? If thats the case then they need to get this figured out!
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Radioman100
Guest
jras20 said:
There are different ways of handling HD transmission. In some cases the signal utilizes the same antenna as the main signal and same transmitter. In others, it uses a different transmitter and the same antenna. In some others, it uses a different transmitter and different antenna.
Which approach works best is a matter of some debate. Each approach has benefits and drawbacks.
Nine of the FMs in Houston broadcast from the same tower and a single antenna. On this tower, the stations combine their HD signals into the master FM antenna.
I'm curious. Which stations can you get?
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Radioman100
Guest
jras20 said:
Interesting. All four of those stations are broadcasting from the exact same antenna.
How does KXXM work? They seem to have the best operation in San antonio, even sometimes when analog is in mono the HD signal will kick in. I am still using my HD Radio at my place near Austin but I wish I could get it to work at my place down south. BTW I checked the signal on my Tuner the HD signal is between 54db-62db for most of the San antonio stations, Austin its 61-68db if that explains anything about my setup here.
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Radioman100
Guest
jras20 said:
I honestly have no idea about KXXM. I've been to their transmitter site, but not since HD was added. Since their analog transmitter was fairly old, I suspect they probably replaced it and went with a low level combined system, meaning one transmitter broadcasts both the analog and HD signals through one antenna.
I could be completely wrong though. If I remember correctly from NAB last year, I think Clear Channel had purchased a Contnental Electronics D816-R, high power HD tube transmitter for KASE Austin. It wouldn't surprise me if they went with the same type of setup for many stations throughout the region.
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rbrucecarter5
Guest
jras20 said:
That is a strange one that you get two signals off of a single Houston tower, not the other two. Are you sure of that 84 mile distance? Your location looked further than that from Misouri City. Those Misouri City towers are monsters, I have no trouble at all getting those stations from Plano, TX when there is not a closer signal on the frequency - or during the service window on locals that are on the same frequency. So if I can do the analog signals, you should have no trouble at all even if you are farther than 84 miles. I know I used to drive around Austin hearing KRBE like a local. As far as HD - it may be the difference between separate digital and analog transmitters / how the signal is combined / etc. This is something that is really not researched enough, and should be. How is your reception of 107.5? Based on extensive measurements I made, there was about a two year period after the conversion when it was probably GONE at your location. They recently fixed it - you should have them back. I'd be really interested in knowing - as it was a poster child for coverage problems, with a dropout on Memorial drive near downtown so deep you could hear co-channels from San Antonio and Dallas - now THAT is a deep dropout. They also lost 60 miles of coverage to the North - they were GONE north of Conroe. Now it is back to the North, so something changed!!!
I am trying to figure out how Radioman did so well with HD in downtown Dallas. I have several reports that NO HD can be received more that 10 to 12 miles from Cedar Hill. I may be an outmoded DX'er, but my advice is sure in demand on how to DX HD radio! The basic laws are unchanged - higher gain antenna, taller mast, better transmission line, and clearest possible line of site to the tower. Only the distances changed. I used to get reliable 330 mile FM reception - it sounds like HD's maximum will be about 1/4 that distance. I'll probably have to end up buying one of these HD radios so I can figure out what is needed, and charge consultant fees to people trying to do it. If I can pull it in at 80 miles when most people have trouble 10 to 12 miles away, maybe it will be a lucrative sideline to IBOC fanatics that have to have their HD-2.
I still have serious doubt whether the average consumer will suddenly want to start fiddling with outdoor antennas again, decades after cable television made rooftop antennas obsolete for TV. If I were a betting man, I would bet that most people won't bother, or will buy HD radio and never even realize it is only working in analog mode. Now if I can come in and charge them $800 for a Sangean HDT-1X, an APS-13 antenna, and a 20 foot mast - installed, I'll gladly do so - as long as they deal with their subdivision's deed restrictions. That antenna is big and ugly, but it will probably pull in the weak HD signal if anything will.
I still am trying to find a way to activate the HD function on Pioneer car radios - they use an HD chipset that happens to be really good at analog reception.
I'm pretty sure its around 84 miles from the transmitter, on my analog tuner, right now I have a dipole antenna hookedon to it, I can recieve Houston analog great with that thing. I have my big outdoor going towards Victoria so I can DX down to corpus as well. It works well, better than I thought it would. My friend won a HD radio, he use to live downtown Dallas, he said he only picked up one HDFM channel there, he gave up and used it as a Ipod radio, he used the antenna that it had and moved it everywere.
I strongly suspect that jras' issue isn't one of raw signal strength, but rather of adjacent-channel signals. Here's a real-world example from upstate New York: I have no problem at all getting a nice analog signal from WPHR 106.9 Auburn NY, a class B station about 60 miles from here. Its HD signal, however, is almost impossible to hear - not because it's not putting in enough signal here, but rather because it gets obliterated on the lower sideband by my local WKGS 106.7, a class A station about 10 miles away. It takes some very careful aiming with the rooftop antenna to null WKGS enough to pull in the digital signal from WPHR. Same deal with WTSS 102.5 Buffalo, a superpower (105 kW) class B signal about 60 miles in the opposite direction - its analog comes in here just fine, but the digital subcarriers are killed on both sides by two local As, WVOR 102.3 and WRCI 102.7.
An even closer parallel to what I think is happening with jras' reception is what I get at the top of my dial - semi-local WLKK 107.7 (40 miles SW) and WWHT 107.9 Syracuse (65 miles E) fight it out, and it takes a good null on WLKK's analog signal to pull in the lower digital sideband of WWHT enough to decode.
If jras would be kind enough to post a bandscan from his location, that would help confirm what I think is going on here.
As for Bruce's situation with the Dallas HD FMs, it certainly sounds as though there's something not quite right with their antenna configurations. Those big class C signals over that flat terrain should give solid HD reception for at least 40 miles or so, if things are configured right on the transmission side of things. I wonder if all those second-adjacent FM move-ins to the north are creating enough interference to the HD sidebands to mess things up?
It would be interesting to have some harder data (more than just "some people say...") to tell whether any of the Cedar Hill FM HDs get out better than others. If my second-adjacent theory has any validity at all, then HD from signals like 94.1 (crunched on either side by the Krum 93.7 and KSOC on 94.5) or 103.7 (surrounded by KESN 103.3 and KTDK on 104.1) would get out less well than, say, KZPS, which has nothing nearby on 92.9 and only a fairly weak 92.1 on the other side.
An even closer parallel to what I think is happening with jras' reception is what I get at the top of my dial - semi-local WLKK 107.7 (40 miles SW) and WWHT 107.9 Syracuse (65 miles E) fight it out, and it takes a good null on WLKK's analog signal to pull in the lower digital sideband of WWHT enough to decode.
If jras would be kind enough to post a bandscan from his location, that would help confirm what I think is going on here.
As for Bruce's situation with the Dallas HD FMs, it certainly sounds as though there's something not quite right with their antenna configurations. Those big class C signals over that flat terrain should give solid HD reception for at least 40 miles or so, if things are configured right on the transmission side of things. I wonder if all those second-adjacent FM move-ins to the north are creating enough interference to the HD sidebands to mess things up?
It would be interesting to have some harder data (more than just "some people say...") to tell whether any of the Cedar Hill FM HDs get out better than others. If my second-adjacent theory has any validity at all, then HD from signals like 94.1 (crunched on either side by the Krum 93.7 and KSOC on 94.5) or 103.7 (surrounded by KESN 103.3 and KTDK on 104.1) would get out less well than, say, KZPS, which has nothing nearby on 92.9 and only a fairly weak 92.1 on the other side.
Here is my bandwidth selections:
88.5 Victoria - Fair reception
88.7 Houston - fair
89.3 Victoria - Fair
89.5 Bay City OK
88.9 Cuero OK
90.7 Victoria Good
91.5 Victoria Exellent
92.1 Houston - Fair to poor
92.5 Yoakum - OK
92.9 Houston Fair to OK
93.3 Victoria Good
93.7 Houston Fair
94.5 Houston Fair to Ok
95.1 Victoria Fair to good
95.7 Houston fair to OK
96.5 Houston fair to OK
96.9 Bay city Great
97.7 San antonio - Good
97.9 Houston fair to good
98.3 fair
98.7 Victoria good
99.1 Houston fair to OK
99.9 poor -
100.3 Houston fair to OK
101.1 Houston fair to ok
101.7 Bay city good
102.1 Houston - Poor
102.5 Bay city OK
103.1 - fair
103.3 fair
104.1 Houston fair to OK
105.1 fair to poor
105.5 poor
105.7 Houston fair
106.9 Victoria ok
107.9 Victoria great
88.5 Victoria - Fair reception
88.7 Houston - fair
89.3 Victoria - Fair
89.5 Bay City OK
88.9 Cuero OK
90.7 Victoria Good
91.5 Victoria Exellent
92.1 Houston - Fair to poor
92.5 Yoakum - OK
92.9 Houston Fair to OK
93.3 Victoria Good
93.7 Houston Fair
94.5 Houston Fair to Ok
95.1 Victoria Fair to good
95.7 Houston fair to OK
96.5 Houston fair to OK
96.9 Bay city Great
97.7 San antonio - Good
97.9 Houston fair to good
98.3 fair
98.7 Victoria good
99.1 Houston fair to OK
99.9 poor -
100.3 Houston fair to OK
101.1 Houston fair to ok
101.7 Bay city good
102.1 Houston - Poor
102.5 Bay city OK
103.1 - fair
103.3 fair
104.1 Houston fair to OK
105.1 fair to poor
105.5 poor
105.7 Houston fair
106.9 Victoria ok
107.9 Victoria great
I was hoping I could edit that last thread, I only did the reception part from a car radio's reception, not by my reception of course with most Houston stations in my antennas at home can pull in greater. And my place south of Austin does the same way with San antonio, I can pull in San antonio analog great, but HD is pretty spotty. I dont believe a lot of people will go out and buy a expensive big outdoor antenna.
jras20 said:
jras20 said:
I've been through Victoria Texas. It's not exactly a huge metropolis. My memory of Victoria is looking off in the distance and seeing many distant tornadoes. I agree that it will be some time before HD becomes a factor there. Lets see how it does in the areas of the country with more significant population density. Whether HD radio becomes huge in that part of Texas or not is besides the point. From what I can tell by your lsitings you are in a deep fringe, relatively rural area with very small population numbers.
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